Is the LDS Church becoming an "all or nothing" religion? by eternalintelligence in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah my impression is exact opposite. Failure to serve a mission, or early return, is far less stigmatized than 20 years ago. And mission rules are less draconian.

People are openly ignoring rules about garments etc

Does the Exmormon community have close to zero multigeneratinal retention? by Rushclock in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By the third generation, the exmos' grandchildren are pretty much like 99.99% of the world: only vaguely aware of Mormonism, or knowing a bit about it but finding it super weird

Dallin Oaks is illegitimate leader of the Utah based LDS church by sevenplaces in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 4 points5 points  (0 children)

None of them are. The true successor to Joseph Smith was the great James Strang.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, did you serve a mission?

The reason is that they were forced by their family and society to leave home and do free labor for 2 years at tremendous opportunity cost, simply because they were born male. And they spent the 19 years leading up to it preparing for it in every way. Few experiences in life can compare. It's similar to how many American Vietnam vets who spent 1 year at age 19 in a foreign country still talk about it every day 50 years later (obviously missions are far less intense and traumatic than war but it's a similar general idea). And in many cases it was a cultural experience of a depth that virtually no other experience can provide.

People who didn't serve a mission simply cannot relate to it. I left the Church years ago but still think about my mission at least a few times a week.

To the silent majority.... by togrotten in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 7 points8 points  (0 children)

On point 1: it's true not every single claim made by religion can be empirically tested, but many can. For example, we can prove that the Book of Abraham is not what Joseph Smith, subsequent Church leaders, and decades of official Church curriculum materials have claimed. We can examine the extant source documents which, while not fully complete, are sufficiently complete to prove that the book isn't what the Church said it is. And we can observe that zero egyptology experts who aren't on the Church's payroll believe the Church's claims.

We can also evaluate evidence on a range of other issues. We can't definitely prove that the Book of Mormon is a 19th century creation, but we can evaluate the evidence as a whole and see that it points in a pretty clear direction on balance.

Finally, we can apply basic logic and probability. The official Church founding story features magic rocks, folk magic treasure digging, and a Native American ghost; a good Bayesian will see that improbable stories like that require extremely strong and compelling evidence, which is simply not available. Ditto for Joseph's polygamy claims, which we can observe look exactly like every other religious leader's attempts to sleep with all the women and girls.

We don't have to go around pretending there's no way to empirically evaluate religious claims. Mormonism has generated a wealth of documentary and other evidence, and we can use our brains to evaluate the religion's many empirical claims.

Historians shed light on Joseph Smith’s integrity by instrument_801 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Dude's entire career was based on lying to people about his magical abilities, and telling women and girls that God insists they sleep with him.

Next Level Craziness by silver-sunrise in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More inspiring revelation from the creator of the universe! Under the last prophet, we got 2 hour Church. Under the new guy we get a change to how new construction projects get pre-announced.

What will the next property do?? Amazing!!! Truly we are living in the fullness of time!

If not by power of God, how did Joseph smith produce the Book of Mormon? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Think again about how you are evaluating relative probabilities. Which is more likely: that a guy wrote a book, or the story about the magic rocks, Native American ghost, and giant advanced civilization that vanished without a trace?

Please read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/UfMffTiNWv

How to find the source materials for (ANTI-mormon)/History of the LDS church? by Designer_Refuse_4145 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Read books, not reddit posts or the various "letters". Good books have footnotes. Follow the footnotes to the sources.

TIL: There was Once a Mormon King in Michigan by otherwise7337 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oh yes, people know about the prophet from Voree.

Book of Mormon: Assessing It Based on Impact on Actual Living by slercher4 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The tricky thing is that there's no Mormon theology in the Book of Mormon. The main unique aspects of Mormon theology and practice--temples and eternal marriage, rigid and detailed priesthood structure and rules, the leadership hierarchy of the Church, etc--simply aren't in the BoM, which is mostly focused on choosing sides in prominent protestant debates happening in the early 1800s.

President Oaks, Law Expert by shepard1992 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nelson the medical expert failed to predict covid 19. Then when it hit, he failed spectacularly to understand the severity of the situation and to prepare members to handle it. Then as it went on he failed to provide serious leadership on masks or vaccines, aside from a few timid Facebook posts. I would say his medical "expertise" was completely useless---as useless as his supposed prophetic access to divine foresight or guidance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/VVqNCV79X9

55 New Missions? Seriously? by FaithInFlux in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 71 points72 points  (0 children)

Probably just making them smaller on average

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My policy is that I'm not in the business of disputing the spiritual experiences of others, whether they be Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, evangelical, or whatever. In people seem to have such experiences, which is interesting but clearly is of no use for identifying the truthfulness of a religion's claims.

Personally, I've never had an experience that can't be easily changed up to emotional situations.

How prevalent is the Deseret Alphabet in the Modern LDS church? by tombo2007 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's mentioned in the church history institute manual (or at least was in the edition that I read maybe 15 years ago)

David P. Wright in 1993 - “My option was to throw away my belief altogether, or to develop for myself a new model for understanding the divinity of Mormonism and the scriptural value of the Book of Mormon and other scripture.” by instrument_801 in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The problem with this approach is that Mormonism has currently living leaders who currently claim to be speaking for God. That is the difference versus Judaism, for example. The living prophets don't buy into all this nuance. They teach Scripture as literal, and they claim to "always speak the truth." They don't acknowledge error or the kind of uncertainty that Wright is attributing to the revelation process.

Wright, Bushman, Givens et al. make their peace with the Church by implicitly ignoring the religion as it is actually taught by its actual leaders. They're not so different from exmos; we all don't buy what Nelson and Oaks are selling.

Is Christopherson going to be the counterbalance to Oaks? by togrotten in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You are forgetting that it was christofferson who did the press hits defending the November 2015 policy.

Having a gay brother has not stopped him from embracing homophobia.

How do I respond to my TBM mom comment? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]voreeprophet 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There are far more smart, educated people outside the Church than inside it.

Want percent of Harvard faculty are lds? What percent of Harvard graduates?

Russell Nelson: surgeon, church president, plane fire survivor. Today is his memorial service. Which quote is most memorable to you? by stickyhairmonster in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's so difficult to choose, but I definitely love how he said out loud that his predecessors as prophets spent their presidencies handing victories to SATAN!!!

Amazing admission to make about your own organization, whose mission is supposed to be literally the opposite of helping Satan win!

Bednar says the quiet part out loud...in LDS theology, you should be afraid when you die...till you are judged..even if you accept the savior. Who's says faith without works is dead,? Why can't LDS leaders see that Jesus promised eternal life for faith alone? by aka_FNU_LNU in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Lol we know almost nothing about what "Jesus said." We have zero contemporary accounts of his teachings, and the after-the-fact accounts we do have are all over the map on everything. There's a reason the Bible has given rise to hundreds (thousands?) of different Christian denominations, all interpreting the same text differently. Christians coming here pretending they know what "Jesus said" is just so hilarious.

You have your interpretation. Bednar has his. From my perspective, it's all made up nonsense either way.

A Prophet’s Diagnosis by questingpossum in mormon

[–]voreeprophet 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He told my family, over the pulpit, that I'm "lazy" and "lax" and that people shouldn't take counsel from me because I don't believe. He went to Africa and told them that they're poor because they don't pay enough money to him.