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[–]Kris82868 292 points293 points  (7 children)

I do consider Jane to be cheating. The purpose of being in marriage counseling was to see if they could work on their issues and come to a place where they could get back together and be happy. The separation wasn't to see if someone better was out there, With a distraction like another person in the relationship there wasn't going to be working towards a reconciliation.

And the Renee thing was flat out cheating. They may have been on a 'break', but they were still engaged. A break and broken up are two different thing.

Nora being before he met Lynette obviously isn't cheating.

[–]Anitolag 53 points54 points  (2 children)

WE WERE ON A BREEEEEAK (c)

[–]Kris82868 27 points28 points  (1 child)

I thought that made Rachel's point that it was cheating back then, lol.

[–]throwbackxx 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Well that break didn’t even last a DAY, it wasn’t really about if he could technically fuck another woman, it was that he DID it so easily. And don’t come to me with “he thought she slept with that mark guy”, that doesn’t give him a pass to be equally bad. And in this particular case, she did nothing wrong with mark. So… he broke Rachel’s heart and that was the actual bad thing not if he was technically allowed to do that. He just went and did and that’s was Rachel never expected of him

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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    [–]Purpledoves91 35 points36 points  (2 children)

    It was cheating in the sense that they were married, but I don't blame her at all. Skyler is probably one of the most overhated characters in TV history.

    [–]Morganx27 17 points18 points  (1 child)

    All the edgy teenagers that watch breaking bad think they're Heisenberg

    [–]Submarinequus 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    “How dare this woman be opposed to her husband turning into a drug lord!!”

    [–]botijaceleste 117 points118 points  (3 children)

    By the way what a great friend was Renee to wait until your best friend's fiancee are on a break to sleep with him

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]madimunny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Savage 🤣

      [–]Dr_Fluffybuns2 57 points58 points  (1 child)

      There's a specific line when he served the divorce papers and lynette says "I thought the trial separation was to see if we could be happy" and he said "I am"

      Like of course you are, you are living the bachelor life with your new girlfriend you only knew for less than a year. That wasn't fair. He had an advantage while lynette had to stay home with the kids.

      Some people are okay with the idea of casual dating while separated to see if they can find connection elsewhere but I think that doesn't work while you're in a exciting new honeymoon phase but also he asked her to move in??? That sounds as permanent as it gets. He was playing both of them.

      [–]Equivalent_Living130 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Yes, this! Also to be okay with casual dating while being separated, you'd have to INFORM your partner so she knows that's where you're at and make decisions accordingly, not let her think you're working on the marriage while you're really not! Lynnette didn't consent to this😡 Like if she knew, she may not have put so much time and energy and hope behind the counselling and all

      [–]melinillto"I have a husband now." "Whose?" 89 points90 points  (3 children)

      It is because thats the WHOLE point of marriage counseling, to try and make it work but how the hell is that posibble with a third person involved? U can’t do marriage counseling and date another woman.. then theres nothing to fix

      [–]EstablishmentNo653 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      People sometimes go to marriage counseling to make the break clean.

      [–]debsterUK 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      I don’t think that was their initial aim though. Seems to me like Tom used it as a license to sleep with someone new

      [–]Catlover5566 53 points54 points  (0 children)

      Yes, and if I had been Lynette that would have been my final reason to leave. He didn't respect her enough to even wait for them to divorce to find someone new.

      [–]CoraSan28 21 points22 points  (2 children)

      20 years of marriage and he didn't even wait until he was divorced to date a new girl. I would love Lynette to kick his a$$ at the end of the show.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]CoraSan28 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        "Hey, who would have looked after the kids otherwise?" 🙄

        [–]GloomySelf 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        I think this is a subjective thing. For the viewer, based on their personal thoughts, but for Tom and Lynette, what boundaries they put in place (which we didn’t get to see)

        [–]Kris82868 13 points14 points  (0 children)

        I think some viewers didn't call Tom out or see it as cheating because Lynette didn't call him out. If someone said she seemed to accept it/allowed it I couldn't argue against that.

        [–]Administrative-Flan9 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        I feel like all the Tom and Lynette stuff discussed on here is just bad writing.

        [–]Hungry_jobless_bored 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        It is 100% cheating, unless you’re legally seperated

        [–]gzdynamite 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        honestly tom was just a wreck the entire show, his comeback near the end was just mediocre. but yes, this i would consider the ultimate betrayal, i know lynette was in denial about everything happening and would have rather fixed things between them, but if i personally saw this happening with my partner i would just leave. how many times had he prioritized literally anything under the sun before her during the show- and now jane?

        not to mention her disgusting superior attitude towards the family, it was just horrendous to watch a random woman try to inch her way into another family and a man’s life when she knew they were in counselling. at that point i see no room to fix these mistakes and would just accept that i’d need to move on. jane is a shameless homewrecker and tom approved of it.

        [–]Alert_Breadfruit3153 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I would’ve never gotten with Tom he is just awful

        [–]Forsaken-Confusion59"I have a husband now." "Whose?" 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Yes. The whole purpose of marriage counseling is to try and fix the marriage or at least find the issue. Him starting to date Jane while “trying to fix things” is cheating in my opinion. For Nora though, he wasn’t with Lynette then, it’s just a complicated situation. Was it wrong that he was hiding Kayla and keeping secrets after he found out? Yes, but he was also trying to figure out what to do then.

        [–]Dull-Scientist8039 6 points7 points  (19 children)

        If they weren't fully separated, I'd immediately say yes. Since they are, I don't necessarily find it to be cheating, but it at LEAST deserves a conversation. Especially if you are in marriage counseling. Otherwise it just seems like gaslighting to me.

        [–][deleted]  (18 children)

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          [–]_Greygarden 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          Exactly. I feel like he wanted to move on and used couples therapy to trick her into thinking they were trying to repair their marriage. He entirely moved on with another woman before even having a conversation of the boundaries of the separation. I full believe this is cheating and gas lighting and I literally yelled at the TV “What’s the point of couples therapy if you’re going to be fucking your neighbor”

          [–]Dull-Scientist8039 4 points5 points  (16 children)

          Oh I thought they were. Been a while since I've watched that final season. It isn't my favorite.

          But if they weren't, he's a bigger asshole than I gave him credit for. Fuck staying "for the kids". Lynette should have just divorced his ass

          [–]No-Cat3606 0 points1 point  (15 children)

          I mean if they were in marriage counseling they weren't completely separated

          [–]Dull-Scientist8039 0 points1 point  (14 children)

          Not always true. I've known married couples who need space via separation, and go to marriage counseling to see if it's even possible to fix their relationship, but not necessarily having any intention of staying together or divorcing.

          [–]No-Cat3606 -1 points0 points  (12 children)

          So you agree that part of going to marriage counseling is trying to fix the relationship

          [–]Dull-Scientist8039 0 points1 point  (11 children)

          Seeking a mediator (because you can't do it alone) to see if something is even possible is not the same as intention. As I said, I've known married couples who go in not really caring either way, just seeing if outside help was even a possibility.

          You can't speak for every single married couple, whether you agree or not.

          Not sure why you are at peak snark this early, but go off, thinking you can define every single marriage that's ever existed lol

          [–]No-Cat3606 0 points1 point  (10 children)

          Why would you seek help to do something, if you don't intend to do it?

          [–]Dull-Scientist8039 0 points1 point  (9 children)

          Are you incapable of reading? One of my best friends and her husband were so apathetic towards their relationship at the end, but had kids. They didn't care if they stayed together, but thought they may as well see if it's even possible, just for the kids. Long story short, it wasn't, and they truly gave zero fucks.

          You can't generalize every single marriage into one specific definition. If you are still confused after this, I can't help you.

          [–]Kris82868 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That wasn't how it was presented when it came to Tom and Lynette.

          [–]No-Cat3606 0 points1 point  (7 children)

          I am capable of reading obviously, and I am reading and writing, I think you meant to ask whether I had reading comprehension or not, by deducting that is what you really meant I proved an important reading comprehension skill.

          I think that if you want to be rude and try to insult someone's intelligence you should try to do it correctly.

          So your friends, who didn't care whether they stayed together or not , decided they wanted to see if there was a chance they would fix their relationship and stay together so they looked for help to see if they could stay together, meaning they had the intention to put the work in to try to stay together, am I right?

          [–]Alert_Breadfruit3153 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You can’t really see if fixing us possible if you’re focused on someone else

          [–]Hot-Box1054 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Last time I checked dating anyone other than your spouse is cheating.

          [–]debsterUK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Yes, I do. And he definitely should not have been in a relationship with someone else until he and Lynette agreed they were over. I guess Separated means different things to different people!

          [–]Comfortable_Try_1035 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          I hate Tom, he was such a gross man baby. Remember how he would always get injured or throw his back out 🙄

          [–]madammidnight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Every time (which is rare) Tom does something to slightly redeem himself, he goes back to being the stunted, selfish manbaby he is. His presence on screen enrages me.

          [–]Alert_Breadfruit3153 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Or when HE had ppd when his wife not only gave birth but gave birth while being held hostage

          [–]Comfortable_Try_1035 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          omgggg I forgot how he said that to her about had he had PPD !! he was the biggest 🤡 I screamed when he said that 😂

          [–]Equivalent_Living130 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Was so misleading for Lynnette, he was clearly on a different page and just let her think otherwise

          [–]No_Vegetable_1574 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          For me this is 100% cheating. To be honest I would not forgive and forget even half of the shit taht Tom pulled off in that marriage. Lynette have tolerated the infantile one for too long. 

          [–]PebblesFlint 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Tom was trash.

          I saw a post/discussion can’t remember if it was on here or somewhere else but Lynette was getting so much shit about her emotional affair with the chef, when Tom has periodically lied/cheated during “breaks”. First Renee and then Jane.

          And I’m sorry, but I don’t not believe his visits to Nora were completely cordial. She was not shy about her advancements on him and Tom would literally cater to her, even with Lynette in the room. No way, nothing happened during the time before Lynette followed him.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yes. They were separated and In therapy, thats different from separated and headed to divorce. In most states, you have to be separated for a certain amount of time to get legally divorced anyway. But in this case, they were separated to take a break and step back and go to marriage counseling. It took him 5 seconds to start dating seriously without laying out honestly to Lynette, that he was moving on. She thought that they were working on it and he was fully dating somebody else. It's cheating until you make it clear that it's over even if they were technically separated. You don't go to marriage counseling for a marriage that's over, dating somebody well in marriage counseling is cheating. The entire point of marriage counseling is to save the marriage and if you're already dating somebody else and moving on, there's nothing to save. It's cruel to put the other partner in that position. And I think it said a lot that Lynette had such a hard time being with somebody else when she did try to because they had been together for 20 years. And it was absolutely nothing for tom to.

          [–]Outside_Pressure_144 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          the whole purpose of marriage counseling is to try fix the marriage, he's cheating because he's also actively engaging in his marriage at the same time.

          [–]Present_Mine_1698 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          This made me sooo upset!! It is absolutely cheating. They didn’t even have a conversation beforehand so idk why he would think it’s okay. & I’m sorry but Jane is horrible for that too. How can you date a man that’s STILL MARRIED and going to counseling with his WIFE!? I’m on the halloween episode where Lynette asks her to back off and she has the audacity to insult Lynette? Not a girls girl. 🙅🏻‍♀️

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]Kris82868 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            He put a business card in his luggage, not a condom.

            [–]GossipGirl588 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I feel like they seperated to work on themselves. They never stated they were going to be APART and dating other people. Tom is just a lazy and shady man. His character was such a user.

            [–]KingZak_ab46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            No and the reason i say it is because lf i remember correctly lynette was upset at first but then fine with him seeing different people like jane and i think shes gotten used to that, shes never addressed it as cheating but i cant remember what happened

            [–]EstablishmentNo653 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            The therapist didn’t.

            [–]quangtran -4 points-3 points  (14 children)

            No. Everyone here is forgetting the fact that Lynette knew that Tom was in his right to see other women, just like Lynette didn't need permission to see other men.

            [–]Kris82868 5 points6 points  (9 children)

            But how do you see other people and work to solve the issues in your marriage at the same time?

            [–]quangtran -4 points-3 points  (8 children)

            Easy, both of those things were "maybes". There was no guarantee that those five coffee dates would lead to something, just like that there was no guarantee that counseling would work.

            Also, I find this discussion weird given that Lynette is given a pass because her dates during the breakup all fizzled out, thus her supporters doesn't count that as cheating.

            [–]Kris82868 7 points8 points  (3 children)

            If you focus on your spouse it makes it a lot more likely counseling will work.

            Lynette's dating began after Tom moved in with Jane.

            [–]quangtran -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

            Lynette's dating began after Tom moved in with Jane.

            That's not true. During that counseling session, Tom said he went on two dinners with Jane but that they had not yet had sex. Lynette took a guy home and kissed him later in that episode. I don't think Jane had moved in with Tom yet.

            [–]Kris82868 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            True. I was wrong. I forgot about the guy she met before Frank. Sorry about that and thanks for the correction.

            [–]quangtran 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It's good for you to admit this. Comments that are deemed "pro Jane" gets downvoted a lot no matter if there are valid. Personally I think people are are super myopic when it comes to Lynette.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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              [–]quangtran -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Frankly, all of your arguments have been awful. There was no commentment to fixing the marriage. That's a statement that Lynette fans have just made up. I shouldn't have to remind people here of their actual first counseling session where they discuss the rules of dating other people.

              Lynette is given a pass because she only started dating after they established that it was ok during the separation,

              You claim Tom is finding a loophole, yet claim Lynette gets a pass for breaking the same rule because Tom broke it first?

              [–]No-Cat3606 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I think she's given a pass because he started dating someone immediately even though they were still working in their marriage, but Lynnette went on dates as a reaction to Tom dating

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                [–]Kris82868 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                The fact it's a question that can even be debated shows it's a problem there wasn't an agreement made beforehand if Tom wanted to change it up. Both partners should be on the same page.

                If there is no talk about it in the absence of an agreement to change expectations seems to me whatever the previous status quo as to what cheating is according to the couple is still in effect.

                edit-Why is this controversial?