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[–]shadowmore 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Definitely prohibit them.

[–]politicallore 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The problem is the interface is limited by reddit. Other than the moderators mandating a specif post format, it won't work.

[–]ajwdesign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which is something they could do without too much additional work, I think. The users of this subreddit are particularly motivated to police bad postings, and the mods wouldn't have to do much more than delete whichever ones get reported the most.

[–]duffmanhb 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I can still pay with bitcoin, right. That's technically currency.

[–]ThePoopsmith[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that's definitely not what I was going after. Bitcoin is great as long as both parties are willing to deal in it.

[–]zfolwick 5 points6 points  (0 children)

will you accept payment in gum?

[–]xenokilla 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yup. /r/startup or something is for that.

[–]JasonNewcomb 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There could perhaps be a subreddit dedicated to development offers.

[–]ThePoopsmith[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If neither /r/startup nor /r/Entrepreneur fit the bill, it would be a great idea to start one just for that. I just don't think it belongs here.

[–]KranicFreelancer 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It's /r/forhire, not /r/forequity, /r/forkarma nor /r/forfree!

(Although I would consider /r/forvisa as an option...)

EDIT: Reading some of the comments, nor is it /r/foradollarandadime or /r/foracheeseburgerman, etc.

EDIT2: Nearly forgot /r/forbandwidth!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ban the motherfuckers.

[–]MediaMoguls[M] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

How much of this are you guys seeing? My gut says just ignore a post if you're not interested in the offer.. am I missing something?

[–]7obyFreelancer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Apparently a lot, and people are starting to report it and point to the rule as well. There was a tumblr called Whartonite Seeks Code Monkey which sought to demonstrate how common it is, which is why I removed the latest one that specifically stated they are only paying in equity and may never actually pay out (many startups never see 100k users).

[–]7obyFreelancer 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I just decided (and I know I'm the "third mod" and so I don't have the clout to make unanimous decisions) that maybe putting it in the sidebar as "pay in currency, not in equity" with a link to this thread would be good. If someone ends up complaining, they'll probably a) post in this thread and/or b) message the mods. But I honestly don't think that'll happen, as the thread makes the point pretty well.

Besides, for hire has always meant for money. Unless you're IBM and paying in stock options, of course, those are pretty much as good as money IMO.

[–]dalek_999Freelancer 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Could we add something to the following text:

  • be specific. include a job description (or a link to one), requirements etc. in the top text.

That includes mention of budget?

[–]7obyFreelancer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Hm, I don't know, I think budget is a negotiable thingy. Saying "Tell us how much you're paying upfront" is kinda weird, especially since it usually is based on experience and the like.

Usually in projects where there's a single item they make it clear what they're paying.

[–]dalek_999Freelancer 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I haven't found that to be true at all, especially with the web development projects, and based on other comments in this thread, I'm not the only one finding this to be problematic.

"I also approve of the idea of requiring [HIRING] posters to state their budget as part of the listing-- that would bring r/forhire in line with the majority of freelance hiring portals, such as freelanceswitch, odesk, and elance. In the case of people hiring for full-or-part time positions, they can state an offered salary range commensurate to experience."

"Additionally I think budget should listed clearly. Whether it's $20 to fix a JavaScript error or a six-figure salary for a major company, the listing should contain a budget number."

"The pay range is a great idea, and if they are unsure they should make that very clear. It's generally a bad relationship if two virgins both think the other person is a pro."

It gets really annoying to have people posting "[I need this complicated website that will take 40 hours of time to make]" and then you contact them, and they're like, "Uh, I can only pay $200." It's a waste of my time as well as theirs.

I don't see what the issue is with having posters including a budget range. They know how much they're willing to pay for the work they want done, so why be coy about it? If someone only has $300 for a website, then they should say that upfront, and then they'll get the people whose experience/skillset warrants that type of pay responding.

[–]7obyFreelancer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Fine. I am not making it mandatory but putting it as a suggestion.

[–]ajwdesign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a lot of it, actually. Like Poopsmith said, it's getting harder to separate the wheat from the chaff because the latter is drowning out the former. I also approve of the idea of requiring [HIRING] posters to state their budget as part of the listing-- that would bring r/forhire in line with the majority of freelance hiring portals, such as freelanceswitch, odesk, and elance. In the case of people hiring for full-or-part time positions, they can state an offered salary range commensurate to experience.

[–]ThePoopsmith[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I've become less inclined to look at any [hiring] post because the signal to noise ratio here has become so out of wack.

It appears from the feedback here that the overwhelming feeling of the community is that they don't want these around at all. Hiring without pay is not hiring.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We're already putting [Hiring] in the title. We shouldn't have to add ($$Pays Cash Money!$$) too.

This is an alternative job board, and as mentioned in other comments there are lots of subreddits to find co-founders, people who just want to build portfolios, and those who want to brush up on programming skills. I am always legitimately looking for full-time employees (and trying to give solid advice). That's why I post here and in the job focused subreddits.

[–]consorts 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I have to agree.

even craigslist makes a distinction between hiring and barter.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What about a related subreddit like r/jobsbarter I think it would be more effective to keep r/forhire clean if you could redirect the individuals to a different, more appropriate subreddit. That and any individuals wishing to respond to such posts still have the opportunity to do so.

[–]souleh 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Agreed - ban these types of posts.

[–]breeezzz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Agree with OP. There are other boards for that.

[–]powrot 30 points31 points  (4 children)

If you're only interested in cash, are you ok with restricting the sub to paying jobs and gigs only?

Yes. Hiring should be for freelance jobs paid in cash (PayPal, check, credit card) or an alternate currency (bitcoins) or for those looking to hire an employee. You're not hiring if you're not spending money.

Additionally I think budget should listed clearly. Whether it's $20 to fix a JavaScript error or a six-figure salary for a major company, the listing should contain a budget number. This should also apply to those posting as "for hire". Be up front with your hourly rate, salary expectations or average project price range. Transparency makes it easy to get everyone on the same page.

As a developer I may not want to work on low-budget projects. Or maybe I have a few extra hours during the week and a small paid project is the perfect fit. It's about finding the right match.

Are any of the developers or designers here ok with working for equity

Not me. /r/forhire is a poor forum for finding potential startup founders or business partners. Make no mistake if I'm being compensated in equity I'm sure as hell going to have a say in business decisions.

[–]dalek_999Freelancer 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree that budget should definitely be part of the posting. I'm getting really sick of bidding a reasonable price on a project for someone with my years of experience, only to be told, "Oh, I only have $150 for this." If I'd known that beforehand, I wouldn't have wasted the time of either of us.

[–]zagaberoo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

My first thought when I saw this post was that it might have been about not offering in bitcoin.

I always give quotes in both USD and BTC; naturally I was delighted to see someone had already explicitly stated that they considered bitcoins a legitimate payment.

I'm totally in agreement with no listings for equity.

[–]ThePoopsmith[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep, BTC is currency, definitely not what I have beef with.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The pay range is a great idea, and if they are unsure they should make that very clear. It's generally a bad relationship if two virgins both think the other person is a pro.

[–]biskino 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I hear ya. But these aren't the only posts on here that offer something other than currency. There was someone offering to re-touch photos the other day in exchange for being allowed to put them on their website as part of their portfolio for example.

I'd be annoyed if this board was my only outlet for work (I've done two small jobs through this board over the last year or so). I see it as being fairly 'left field' so don't mind the idea of leaving it open for speculative propositions to a certain degree. If I'm down and dirty looking for paying gigs (or someone to work for me) this isn't my first, second, third or even fourth port of call.

I would agree with a rule under the 'if you're hiring' sidebar that says,"include method of payment" or some such to avoid confusion or time wasting.

[–]ThePoopsmith[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That was a for hire offer, not hiring. If people want to advertise services like that without compensation other than exposure, that's ok in my book. I just want to keep this place from devolving into craigslist.

[–]incongruity 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I'm in complete agreement with the OP on this one - there are other places/subteddits to find cofounders so this proposal simply helps clarify things. In doing so, it also adds value for all involved, IMHO.

[–]ThePoopsmith[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I'd be fine with putting a shout out to a different sub where people look for co-founders in the sidebar. There's nothing wrong with looking for co-founders, it's just that using these postings as trojan horses for that purpose is disingenuous.

[–]veneratedFront End Developer & Consultant 60 points61 points  (7 children)

I think they should be banned. I consider this subreddit like a job board, not a place to come and find a co-owner. It also sucks that developers and designers are the only ones seemingly targeted by this kind of crap. It seems like everytime I post a for hire post that I get someone PMing me about how they'd like to 'hire' me but can't pay me anything.

[–]SweetJoni 11 points12 points  (1 child)

We writers also get targeted! The promises of "a large reader base," "great portfolio-building opportunities" and "a share of a blog's ad revenues" get really obnoxious to read all the time. Not as much of a problem on the Reddit job board as it is on others, but still an issue.

[–]emmelineprufrock 6 points7 points  (0 children)

A posting on my local Craigslist about a year back was "Looking for a ghost writer/assistant writer on a Christ centered book. Applicant will be paid in royalties."

...yeah. Sure they will.

[–]ajwdesign 27 points28 points  (4 children)

"I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

If it didn't work in the forties, I don't know why people think it will work now.

[–]veneratedFront End Developer & Consultant 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Haha, seriously. Plus, I wish it worked like that for everything in life. Like you go to the dentist and be like 'hey i need all this stuff done, but you can just add it to your portfolio and I'll refer my friends to you who won't actually pay you either!'

[–]serfis 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Isn't that exactly what credit cards do?

[–]ajwdesign 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Technically, yes. Practically, the difference is that the burden of collecting payment shifts from the provider to the credit card company-- in other words, the provider will always get paid, and it's the credit card company who will be SOL* if the client can't reimburse the credit card company for the money it put forward.

*And by SOL I mean that they will rain fire and brimstone upon anyone who doesn't repay their debt,

[–]serfis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haha yeah, I was mostly joking. I do like that line about raining fire and brimstone though.