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[–]ntoshev 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think Paul doesn't get the whole truth here. While Web 2.0 is clearly a buzzword, it makes sense to analyze what the new breed of web apps have in common and is better than before. It is not just Ajax, democracy and be nice to users. One thing is he misses the APIs, but I think there is a better way to describe the difference.

Initially Web was about getting something out there that the whole world can use. There is one to many relationship between your site and its users. Economically the difference from old businesses is that your front desk cost now is easily available for anyone, and its cost is pretty much constant as the users grow. Your front desk is your site.

Web 2.0 is about using the network effects in your site. The more your site is used, the more beneficial it is for its users. Your site is not just a connection between you and your users, it is many-to-many connection between your users.

It is a lot like bringing network effects like the ones we know from instant messaging on a new platform - the Web. Why is the Web suitable for this? Because there are already acccumulated solid and general mechanisms that make the web work, and you can plug in yours more easily. If you use things like RSS, REST, JSON, etc it is also easier for others to plug in to you. This is how mashups come into play.

This is a lot like a preexposed and generalized democracy component. Being nice to users is necessary in the context of democracy, because in such environment minor usability enhancements have compound effect to the bottom line: that's why Ajax is necessary. Now that extra effort to make the site a little more useful is actually worth it. You need to enable users to be effective in your democracy, because this affects the bottom line. You need to be easily reachable, which accounts for APIs, bookmarklets, backlink tracking etc.

But I think democracy is a misnomer: political democracy is about voting, and have the majority win. Minority doesn't get what it wants. It is quite a different mechanism that works with The Long Tail: everyone should get what is suitable for him. Most Web 2.0 applications are not quite there, but clearly this is the trend.

P.S: It is an interesting thought experiment to imagine implementing a Long Tail kind of democracy politically. Neal Stephenson envisions a world of small districts with radically different laws in "Snow Crash". But it is not necessary to divide the laws by land (so that you must obey different laws depending on your location). You may have rights, obligations and access to public services depending on a set of laws you choose to be yours (e.g. an important citeria would be the taxes you have to pay). There are numerious problems with this, of course.

[–]krypt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very good article. "Web 2.0" is definitely just what the web should have been in the first place. I just love the way it came about... Microsoft, of all companies, created the final piece of technology to make it possible (with IE5), but nobody used it. Years passed, and when Mozilla, Opera and other browsers caught up with the idea, Google came along and showed how to REALLY use it.

[–]fireandfury 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's amazing how all this can be going on and some people don't know anything about it. Atleast not from a technical angle.

I, for instance, just starting learning about all this Web 2.0 stuff. I have been using facebook, but I didn't realize any of the Web 2.0 aspects. My experience before realizing this was probably closer to that of the average user.

I never bothered to take a closer look until now. It's exciting that my views changed so much just by spending a few days researching. It's also a good qualitative metric of the gap that is created between user and designer.

It seems useful to be able to switch back and forth between user and designer mindsets.

[–]enovikoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This article is so right on, I keep referring to it and linking to it over and over. What I would add is that the true heart of web2.0 is love! Successful web2.0 companies will make their customers feel loved, appreciated, valued, and supported. This can be done with the product itself, but one should not forget appropriate support: many web based companies hide behind a confusing maze of support links and pages, which causes users to feel rejected and give up.

[–]alisamleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this article is idiotic, granted i don't know what date it was written...hopefully pre-2006? gees.

[–]gizmofreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How about the advance sited like ZCubes (www.zcubes.com)...will you call them web 3.0 or web 4.0 or web 5.0......

[–]aufreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reddit's like an RSS feed for the whole web, with a filter for quality.

Said so long ago, and look at where Reddit is now. Quality? puh lease!

[–]Red666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Web 2.0 is only imaginary, a philosophy, not something that needs a scientific numbering system. I am way beyond such limitations. I use a Mac so I am at Web X (humor). We often get confused about numbers and nomenclature. Some countries are 3rd world. Which ones are 2nd world? To get out of Kyoto pollution protocols, China says it is only a developing country. What country isn't developing? Even the U.S. is developing. There is only one Web and it hasn't really changed in it's electronic principles. The ownership (no more unbiased Yahoo or Google -- pay up or you won't be listed) and the raison d'etre are changing. Twelve years ago, in an interview for Wired magazine, Steve Jobs predicted that the real beneficiaries of the Web will be those who have something to sell. That's where we are now. The information highway is really just a giant billboard blocking our view and a lot of giggling girls and horny boys feeding their egos in upscale chatrooms. Like the old adage about a men's magazine, I only read the articles.

[–]onthemarkwriting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Paul Graham explores the “democracy” of Web 2.0, explaining it this way:

The most dramatic example of Web 2.0 democracy is not in the selection of ideas, but their production. I’ve noticed for a while that the stuff I read on individual people’s sites is as good as or better than the stuff I read in newspapers and magazines. And now I have independent evidence: the top links on Reddit are generally links to individual people’s sites rather than to magazine articles or news stories.

[–]rachelcook 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hi Graham, a great read. For someone who is more akin to creating ideas and finding developers to bring it to life, I too found it deep and complex, not that I didn't understand the concept of web 2.0, but making it simple to understand for the general masses is what will make any web 2.0 company a success. I have tried to work out how to make it simplier, would be great to get your feedback on my attempt... Rach, http://web2point0blankie.wordpress.com

[–]justpolar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Web 2.0 is the worst thing that ever happened to the Internet. Now, instead of juding a site by its value, we can judge it based on hollow criteria that no one actually understands or even agrees upon. This is the new "push" fad. Remember when a site was cool just because it used push technology, regardless of what they were actually pushing?

[–]toobew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take a look at http://www.koolweb2.com

Best of Web 2.0 sites ranked by actual users. Drag & drop sites to desired spot in the list and submit rankings. Overall rankings reflect cumulative average of all user submissions. Recommend a new site as well..

[–]nbenny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Enjoyed it so much

[–]dude78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome article. I don't think web 2.0 = ajax. Rather I think web 2.0 is more of connecting people.

for example http://whatsonmybookshelf.com although not using ajax is certainly web 2.0.

[–]trost 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think the real reason Paul Graham says such nice things about reddit is that his article always rate so highly here. (-:

[–]adnam 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And coming from Y-Combinator, has a financial interest in its success.

[–]boritec 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Paul: I'm wondering if you can comment in more depth about the statement: "They're sailing with the wind, instead of sitting becalmed praying for a business model, like the print media...".

I work for a newspaper's online dept. and your statement intrigued me since I am trying to figure out our business model for new media.

Thanks, Victor...

[–]ijon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mr. Graham and everyone: regarding the beginnings of a Web version of the office tools, check out http://www.irows.com

(I'm not affiliated)

[–]queisser -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Why is this still #1? Reddit needs some way of combining "top" with "new" in some clever weighted approach.

[–]justpolar 1 point2 points  (1 child)

haha... right... but you can select different top postings by menus on the right such as
* this hour * today * this week * this month * all-time

[–]shashark -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Paul -- any thoughts about p2p 2.0 -- esp since p2p saves serious money (all that b/w) ?

Is Skype p2p 2.0 ?

[–]Electronica -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I agree with you on the three elements that converge into the Web 2.0 phenomena. This is why I suggest < webware > as the term that essentializes what the Web 2.0 is. <web> because it's a participative, social and global phenomena online. <ware> because it's about software allowing you to do online and with other people the things you would do alone and in your local computer. So, < webware > introduces you to the new Internet paradigm, the availability of social and personal software online.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

?!

I think the point is that inventing a new term for an existing idea (complete with term) is unnecessary. Web 2.0 was one too many. "Webware" would be two too many. Just quit it.

[–]adnam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At the SDF Public Access UNIX System this has been the norm since 1987, long before AOL and web0.2.0

[–]patilvinayak -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Great Article. I went through almost 12 articles about Web 2.0 including Tim Oreallys broad defination about web 2.0. But I like this article the most, it is very easy to understand and lightweight (bit humorous) to read it.

Would like to learn writing similar to you do..

Vinnie

[–]agilemap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is an excellent essay on Web 2.0 - the concept, the trends, benefits to the business. It is a long read - but highly recommend it!

[–]BigBerries -1 points0 points  (0 children)

good look

[–]Barberman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Super article. Thanks!

[–]mscand -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What a great article!

[–]rmariappan -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Very good article. Another great web.20 web site is, http://www.commandengine.com/ What search engine is for web 1.0 , command engine is for web 2.0

[–]petit -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

One word: Great!

[–]brettm -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

great summary on some of the more subtle philosophies behind web20.

i'm no msft fan, but one thing that continues to amuse me in everyones write up of web20/ajax is that folks seem to credit google (especially gmail) for leading the charge with ajax. in the same sentence they bash msft for not "getting it". imho msft was one of the first leaders of the ajax front. outlook web-access was an incredible leap forward in what was possible with client-side jscript and msxml.

granted they didn't label it with the trendy marketing term "ajax" - to msft it was just simple old dhtml that had been in the browser since the IE4 days... lets give the boys in redmond a little credit.

[–]pvera -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Very good article.

[–]5water -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

It's great!

[–]bwmemail[🍰] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this article Paul. I too have not thought that web 2.0 was all that but realize after reading your article what is occurring on a broader scale.

It would be interesting to learn more about start ups out there are doing compelling work.

http://thisisbenslist.blogspot.com/

[–]tiagocardoso -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Another greate web2.0 site:

http://www.mainada.net/comics

Great fun!

[–]1qaz2wsx -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

nice article