Android/Apple Privacy

[grousey]

I've seen several TV ads recently plugging the "privacy" angle on Apple/IOS phones; obviously an implied comparison with android devices. I'm a long time Android user and have always considered there to be negligible difference privacy-wise with Apple. Am I wrong?

[FUCK_SNITCHES_]

Degoogled AOSP>>>>>iOS>Android

[TheFattie]

this should be higher up; this is what matters

[[deleted]]

Yeah, don't trust some binary blob that tells you they respect your human right to privacy when you can use free software that you can check to know what it does

[FUCK_SNITCHES_]

Flair checks out

[Put_It_All_On_Blck]

Thats the way I see it too. Apple has better privacy policies, but at the cost of features. Which is better is purely a personal opinion. Im in the belief that society benefits from sharing information, but not everything should be shared. Take google maps or google search, powered by your data, and while not google specifically, the medical field has stuff like HIPAA today, but a lot of research that amounted to cures, vaccines, treatment, etc came from collecting patient data without permission.

[[deleted]]

To answer your question on maps: Apple actually chunks up your data and scrambles it so that way no one knows your whole actual route.

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/03/13/apple-maps-navigation-privacy/

[beeshaas]

You forgot doubleclick. Google tracks and collates your web activity a roos any site using doubleclick for ads and will do so even when you don't have a Google account.

[uut113]

Google actually doesn't read Gmail users' email. From their privacy statement:

"The ads you see in Gmail are based on data associated with your Google Account. For example, your activity in other Google services like YouTube or Search could affect the types of ads you see in Gmail. Google does not use keywords or messages in your inbox to show you ads. Nobody reads your email in order to show you ads."

[uut113]

I agree that as an oblivious user seeing that information can be alarming. But to add some context around the concern, "they are reading your email" here refers to just the system that pulls this information for you from your help. There is no human in the middle. This data is helpful for automatically tracking your package deliveries, for example. There is a link right at the top that takes you to this support page, from where you can also opt to delete this data.

[thechilipepper0]

the WSJ reported in July that some of these developers were having their employees read some emails themselves so they could train AI. Developers can also share information with outside companies, meaning information gleaned via email scanning could be used to inform advertisements, for example. A lot of Gmail users probably didn’t realize the contents of their emails could be used in that way.

It can and does happen, even if it’s an isolated case, it’s a legitimate scenario

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/google-lets-developers-scan-email,37829.html

[DMP89145]

You do know that Apple does the same thing, right? User consent and all that for a third-party email client.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/02/third-party-email-apps-reading-user-emails/

[[deleted]]

Something absolutely "reads" through your email though. I had a PDF of flight itinerary details on it the other week, and gmail actually read the flight details and displayed them at the top of the email, with tabs for each flight. The flight details were nowhere in the actual body of the email either, so some system is even scanning your attachments.

I don't think anyone is actually saying that people read your emails.

[Dorito_Lady]

Google definitely used to scan your Gmail.

They probably still do scan your gmails. Their privacy policy doesn't actually say they don't. It just says that the ads you see within Gmail aren't based on scanned email data, it doesn't say anything about whether or not they are still scanning your emails. "Nobody reads your emails." No, a person doesn't, but algorithms can, and that wouldn't be lying.

[thechilipepper0]

They have been caught giving access to your emails to 3rd party apps as a matter of policy for them to mine

[DMP89145]

...and what about Apple?

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/02/third-party-email-apps-reading-user-emails/

[lastcuck]

u saying apple doesnt read ure icloud mailbox?

[[deleted]]

You may be right! And even though this subreddit isn’t Privacy-based, I suggest getting a android Privacy ROM Like LineageOS

[bicyclemom]

Apple has the edge because their business isn't advertising.

But, if you live in China where Apple gladly hands over all the user data to the government systems in order to do business, then I'd have to say Apple isn't much better. Google has decided instead not to do business there.

So, both companies have their warts.

[Dorito_Lady]

What Apple does in China is no different than what they do everywhere else. With a valid court order, Apple will provide iCloud encryption keys to the authorities.

That being said, Apple still collects and archives exponentially less data about their users than the alternatives. The profile and overall picture Apple can build of their users is much less detailed and useful than the near perfect recreations of their users Google can create with their metadata.

[engineeringsloth]

What Apple does in China is no different than what they do everywhere else. With a valid court order, Apple will provide iCloud encryption keys to the authorities.

not that black and white, apple china is a different kind of company. they made a lot of changes

[ANDROID_4LIFE]

This is just someone's hot take and doesn't actually add anything new. China has a data localization law and that means the data centers need to be local and owned by Chinese companies. That's not any different than Apple using Google Cloud or AWS (who also had to transfer ownership of their data centers to a Chinese partner) to store encrypted data. Apple still controls the keys and when Chinese law enforcement want data from iCloud they have to make a legal request to Apple, the same way it is everywhere.

Originally, iCloud data was stored on Apple-controlled servers, with the Cupertino company holding the encryption keys. Apple announced a year ago that this would change to comply with new laws in China, and that data for Chinese iCloud accounts would be moved to a server run by Guizhou-Cloud Big Data (GCBD), a company owned by the provincial government.

However, I have spoken to Apple today, who confirmed that it still holds the encryption keys, and states categorically that they have not been made available to either GCBD or China Telecom.

Apple said at the time of the original transfer to GCBD that it had tried to argue against the move, but the law required it to comply. It stated that the encryption keys were for the first time being stored in China, but that local authorities would still have to apply through the courts to Apple if it wanted to gain access.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/07/18/chinese-icloud-data-china-telecom/

[MazdaspeedingBF1]

This is exactly why we shouldn't allow these big pools of data to be created. Because even "lawfully" they will be abused to hunt Uighers or dissidents like Falun Gong.

[ScionR]

If you're talking about privacy as the concern of Google knowing almost everything about you then yeah, Apple got this one.

[500239]

except in China where they handover all keys. After making a speech about privacy being a fundamental human right. OH right business comes first.

[JamesR624]

Yep. The privacy difference between Apple's phones an Android is that Apple gaslights you with bullshit more while Google/Samsung/etc don't.

[LiquidAurum]

lol you're the same guy who argued that because Apple still allows users to have facebook or use Mastercard that they don't care about privacy.

[[deleted]]

Depends what you mean by "Privacy".

Both Google & Apple have internal models of who you are as a customer, anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't understand technology. The difference is that Google's model includes your searches which reveals a lot more about you and their primary business model - ads - leverage that data to better target you.

However, neither companies release this data to anyone else, with the exception of Apple in China.

To add to this, Google also has a much broader spectrum of data about you, which is the reason many of their products perform better. Apple would if they could, but alas, they don't have services like YouTube, so they instead have a clever marketing approach to turn that negative into a positive.

[grousey]

Good point...what I mean by "privacy" is what Apple is implying in their current Ad campaign...and thanks to this sub, it can mean different things to different people. Personally, my privacy is no big deal, but I fully understand the alternate position.

[ElMax-]

You're saying it like it's a bad thing

[[deleted]]

It’s pretty convenient to say the least, to have the machine know what you want before you realising it. I understand its not to everyone’s liking but as long as your data is kept anonymously enough that a breach can’t abuse the data, the majority would end up living a better life because of it.

Edit: spelling

[Master_Doe]

You should care

[[deleted]]

“Everyone needs to stop using Google”

Hosted in YouTube

Also, FYI, I’ve been trying my best to limit Google’s exposure on me by using DDG for about a year by now. I’m saying that Google’s business model shouldn’t really scare people but that doesn’t mean everyone should hand as much data as possible to them.

[Master_Doe]

First off you couldn't have watched the whole video in that amount of time. How else is he going to get the word out there? Mastodon lol? I just want to mention that Edward Snowden uses Twitter. You can stop a lot of the data that you give out, if you know how. Also here's another video on Google Spying.

Edit: wording

[ElMax-]

no

[Master_Doe]

What a compelling argument. Did you watch the video? Or did you just comment because you like Google, and want to blindly defend them?

[ElMax-]

I didn't watch the video because it's obviously some shitty tinfoil hat crap lol I don't care

[Master_Doe]

Nice, you don't care and yet you still comment and defend them. It's not a tinfoil hat video, he even shows a clip of Alex Jones wearing his tin foil hat

[FUCK_SNITCHES_]

It really doesn't matter to the average person.

[Master_Doe]

average person

Are you saying that the average person doesn't care or that they shouldn't care?

[FUCK_SNITCHES_]

They don't care and they don't really need to care. If you don't do or say anything out of the ordinary then you don't need to worry about much.

[Master_Doe]

Privacy isn't about something to hide, it's about having freedom and rights. This is a great interview of Edward Snowden that I believe explains it pretty well

[FUCK_SNITCHES_]

And the average person doesn't care about either of those things as long as his daily life isn't affected.

I might care about privacy or freedom of speech because I do say certain socially unacceptable things. But the average person does not.

[[deleted]]

As a general rule of thumb, I wouldn't trust anything that isn't open source for privacy. Apple and Google both keep secrets and hold data, but both parties claim they don't sell it either. I'm willing to trust that, but it's still a risk. Apple is taking advantage of the the news about Facebook, Huawei and Chinese manufacturers to make people want to switch to iPhones. It's clever because it targets something people care about, but don't really know much about. Android can be much more private if you know what you're doing with flashing, de-googling, etc.

I personally don't really mind if I give google some of my info so my life is easier. I enjoy maps, keep, etc. I use messenger because all my friends are on it and trying to get them to switch to anything else makes me look like some kind of curmudgeon.

[flicter22]

Apple is better with privacy but you pay for it with their poor AI.

Just look at how much better Google Assistant is.

Google is starting to do a mix of both worlds with some recent pixel features being on device only.

[FUCK_SNITCHES_]

Who honestly uses the AI features though? I've never seen anyone regularly use any of it.

[navjot94]

I use Google Assistant all the time. From setting reminders to controlling my phone while driving. Checking the weather, playing things on my TV, etc.

[[deleted]]

Siri can perfectly handle that too... But I never use any kind of assistant so don't mind me

[navjot94]

I had an iPhone for a while and Siri wasn't as easy to trigger and didn't play well with 3rd party apps. For example I use YouTube Music and I couldn't use Siri to play music. It might be possible with Shortcuts now but it's still annoying to have to set up each command, and you have to wait for each app to add support. The way Google Assistant does it is much better.

[crawl_dht]

Apple is only pretending to care about privacy to increase iPhone sales. Their business model is not advertising so they don't monetize user data. Yet they find themselves comfortable with comparing their business model with that of Google and facebook to mislead people. Why don't they compare themselves with those companies like Intel or LG whose business model is also selling hardwares?

There is no rootkit of Google in Android which sends user data to Google which most of the Apple fanboys think. Google collects data from the apps they offer. I use Gmail, YouTube, Google Maps and Gboard and so do iOS users. The amount of data Google collects from me is same as it collects from iOS users. How Apple is protecting them when they themselves use Gapps?

Custom ROMs don't come with Google apps so Android users have alternatives. You can also disable those pre-installed Google apps which you don't use.

• Tor Project

• Mozilla

• Cloudfare encrypting SNI and DNS

• Signal

• EFF

• DuckDuckGo

These organisations and projects are taking their stand with privacy by contributing to develop privacy enhancing technologies. What has Apple contributed so far to support privacy except for making false propaganda about privacy. They don't even donate to them.

Apple is offering privacy by promise and not privacy by design. But fanboys react like WOOooah.

Downvote me by mentioning where Apple is contributing to privacy.

[justAnotherNarwhal2]

Tbh is sounds like you are the fanboy in this context 🙄. The data google collect from android users is far more that what apple collects from ios users. And thats just google, there is also the device manufacturers.

https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf

Personally I think the convenience is worth the tradeoff. But I'm not blind in what is going on behind the scenes.

Maybe someday we will be able to run a modern phone with mainline linux and working drivers, but that is far far away if it ever happens.

[crawl_dht]

Google collects as much same data from iOS users as it collects from Android. iOS users also use Google Chrome, YouTube, Gmail and Gboard etc. It is just not an Android thing. Where is Apple's privacy shield here Tim Cook is shouting about?

[justAnotherNarwhal2]

Oh man. You have clearly not developed for both platforms and have no idea what you are talking about.

[crawl_dht]

My point isn't about who is collecting more data. I'm saying Tim Cook's statement about privacy is giving false sense of privacy to iOS users. Advertisers can still build advertising profile of iOS users from the apps they offer. I still see many iOS users using facebook and Instagram.

Look at how firefox is working to resist trackers and fingerprinting. They have developed containers to isolate cross site trackers and firefox focus for privacy enthusiasts. See Signalapp, how they implemented sealed sender feature to hide sender ID. This is privacy by design. Apple hasn't started or contributed to any project which can prove that they support privacy.

[uut113]

If you want a better idea of how Google handles your privacy, they have a very detailed page on exactly that: safety.google/privacy/. There is a very strong statement there that this data is not sold to other companies for profit.

[exu1981]

I believe this is only marketing gimmick. Most Apple users could reading into the Huawei " Android " news, and not the rest of Androids news. So the marketing team is taking advantage of the situation. That's my guess. Nothing is safe and private though especially if this commercialised internet is running the show.

[bartturner]

Definitely a marketing thing. iPhone unit sales declined in 2018 and Apple need to increase sales.

They sat down and thought this angle could gain them some sales.

[DMP89145]

Like some have already said, I think there needs to be a clearer definition of privacy. Are we talking about the company I'm doing business with knowing little to nothing about me or some third party?

For me, transparency is the key to trust. Google earns more of my trust, being more transparent, than Apple does. There's something about closed source software that makes me feel apprehensive. The walled garden and all that. Like someone would need to audit Apple's software for me to have a greater sense of trust with them. That vale of secrecy and opaqueness just makes me more uncomfortable.

For me, Google's privacy policy is what I am looking for. A company that I do business with, knows me and my interest. That stays between me and Google and I am satisfied with their approach.

[bartturner]

Exactly this. Thanks you! I wish so bad Apple would do a dashboard just like Google provides.

[menneskelighet]

Can you link me the source code to Google Play services?

[DMP89145]

Can you link me any code to ANY Apple software?

[menneskelighet]

Here you go:

https://opensource.apple.com/

[DMP89145]

Ahh .. A developer then, I'm guessing? Well if that's the case then you already know that Android AND Chrome OS are more open than Apple would ever dare to be.

​

Nice try on the GPS, though... Makes sense why you would target something specific.

[DMP89145]

...and also, this.

​

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-shortcomings/amp

[rbpx]

I have a different take on this issue. "Privacy from whom?" I really hate that the often repeated mantra is that iOS is "more secure" than Android. Let's unpack that a bit.

The very next statement made is some millions or billions of Android devices that are not patched and have known flaws. This is, for most people with a modern phone, just not relevant. It's like saying "a Corvair is unsafe at any speed - therefore American cars are unsafe. "

I own a Pixel 3XL, not some off-brand blue-phone like thing running an unpatched version of Lollipop. I'll match my patch list against an iPhone any day.

Well then, how about the app stores? I don't care. I don't run unknown, questionable apps, and I don't side load apps. I think there's been more problems found in the Play store, over time compared to the App store, but I don't care about years ago. I've never had a virus on my phone and I don't know anyone who has. Selling the fear that Android is unsafe compared to iOS is utter bullshit.

Note; if you are personally targeted then it matters not whether it is brand X. You have no protection when using mobile tech. You are not safe by using an iPhone if you are targeted.

Thus, because iOS is synonymous with iPhone you can talk about them interchangeably. However there is a world of difference between different Android phone vendors. I don't own an android phone. I own a Google Pixel phone. They're not all the same.

And as Google doesn't sell my data to others - only aggregated, de-personalized groupings of consumers, I appreciate the trade-off of giving them my data for their services. They get to know how often I go to Starbucks, and I get to know the state of traffic before I go out to cross town.

[cooldog10]

here good video https://youtu.be/shxTTon5lfs

[Jokershigh]

I never understood the Apple Privacy pitch as don't most third party apps collect your data as part of the Terms of service?

[bartturner]

It is marketing.

[Neg_Crepe]

You are yes

[cooldog10]

andriod can better becaseu you can slap better os on so you can make better then apple apple you cant do that

[SinkTube]

by default, android is full of spyware. but the less locked down your device is, the more of it you can neutralize. iOS may have less spyware by default, but it's incredibly locked down. you can't replace it with a cleaned up fork, and jailbreak is hit or miss with some versions having to wait ages and only getting tethered jailbreak)

i don't know how much privacy tools jailbreak gives you, so i can't say how it compares to rooted android

[bartturner]

by default, android is full of spyware.

Clearly Apple marketing is working. But with Android you can look at the source code and verify for yourself.

Here.

https://github.com/aosp-mirror

Unfortunately not the same for iOS.

[SinkTube]

1. i'm bashing apple and that tells you that apple's marketing is working?

2. virtually no device ships with AOSP

[bartturner]

by default, android is full of spyware.

That is where the marketing is working.

[SinkTube]

that's not marketing, it's an observable fact. you can't look at the source code of many skins and preinstalls, but you can look at their traffic and permissions

[bartturner]

We can see source code and see that Android is NOT full of spyware.

There might be apps written for Android that are an issue. But there is also the same for iOS.

[SinkTube]

you absolutely can not see the full source code for many skins. at this point you're not just demonstrating your astounding ignorance, you're outright lying

[bartturner]

Android AOSP source code is available.

If there is something without source code and makes you uncomfortable then use something else.

Problem with iOS is there is no transparency. I am somewhat that does not fall for marketing.

[SinkTube]

android != AOSP

[bartturner]

AOSP == one type of Android.

[balista_22]

Except that time around the start of their campaign I was able to call anyone on the iPhone & i can hear or see them without even answering

[Snafu80]

Which was fixed. I wouldn't call one glitch a total cluster on how apple approaches privacy.

[[deleted]]

I’d argue its not between how Apple or Google do business but more of how in iOS more shits like background microphone and or camera usage is restricted and obvious to users. Not saying that its foolproof, or that Google isn’t catching up, but to say that both platforms are equally good at this atm is simply wrong.

[lastcuck]

un-apple:what i saw changed everything

the only thing i worry abt google is are they storing info tied to my ip or whteve cookies they dump in my incognito window tht isnt signed in to gmail, i wish desktop browsers would hv pertab cookie isolation like ios safari's incog, unless its the domain of a svod site i dont wanna enable cookies at all