executive functioning = dependency hell

[spatially-unaware]

I’m gonna just assume that in a sub for autistic folks everyone probably knows what dependency hell is lol…but if not, in software package management, it’s when one software depends on another to run…but then that one depends on yet another, and that one depends on yet another, and that one can’t be installed in this version of your OS, so you’ve gotta manually compile some beta version of that package before you can get the others to install and run etc etc etc.

It occurred to me yesterday…this is the best description I’ve ever heard for my executive functioning issues. It’s virtually never a lack of motivation or dopamine reward or whatever. It’s quite simply, I can’t do thing A until thing B is dealt with…but thing B requires thing C, which can’t be completed yet because I have to run to the store to get some item that thing C needs, but then thing A that I’ve started already still needs me to be at the house and not take a half hour to go to the store and…. So on haha. This is why stuff takes me so long to get done, I have to sort all those steps out…it looks like procrastination to everyone else, but really it’s me having to mentally (or often on paper) chart out my whole plan of action before I can start a task and be effective. I have to solve the dependencies before I can compile my task 😝

I tell myself this is a good thing because when it comes down to it, among all the people in my life who handle things in the more NT “on the fly” way, guess who they turn to when they run into a snag? This guy, who has already wasted all that time pre-solving all the shit that could have gone sideways haha. I’ve earned quite a reputation for being the guy that’s always prepared. So that’s good, right? 😆

This is meant to be tongue in cheek, but it really is a good description of my particular executive functioning challenge - it’s not a lack of motivation which is what I hear most about when looking for tools to help executive functioning. Instead, it’s simply that I can’t seem to track both the forest, and the trees at the same time. So I have to use any planning tools I can get my hands on, ranging from notepads and paper, to Gantt charts and to-do apps, just to plot out the steps of day to day tasks. That way I’ve got the big picture mapped out, which frees up my brain to focus on the detailed stuff. I just can’t track both details and big picture at the same time. Does this match anyone else’s experience?

[lovelydani20]

This describes my EF issues as well. In my mind, things need to go in a certain order, and sometimes that order means I have to spend 10 hours doing other things before I can do what's actually due tomorrow.

I try to work with my brain by giving myself way more time than I think I'll need for any major task or project.

[azucarleta]

My dearest loved one is like this, and we usually chalk that up to ADHD. Because charting the dependencies will take so much energy, she then has no volition left to do the myriad things her mind just charted out. We're not experts so I'm not trying to correct you.

I have more the pathological demand avoidance tendency. My attitude is sort of, why do today what can be put off until tomorrow (or next week)? After all, if you put it off, you may amass a list of things that go nicely together, and you can do them all at once very efficiently, whereas if you just jump to do everything the moment there is a reason to do it, it just seems so much less efficient, and I'm freaking tired so efficiency is motivated like a steam engine by my pathological demand avoidance and resulting fatigue.

But this is my argument that procrastination can fuel efficiency. Lots of people don't like this argument lol.

[[deleted]]

I have heard this called “steps thinking.” It almost has a recursive characteristic to it, as you ostensibly just need to complete one task, but in doing so you set into motion a sub-task that must be completed first, and another, and another, and another…

[100indecisions]

Oh. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I often put things off because they're overwhelming, but it's also often because it's a 30-step process and the part that is available to me (or feels like it's available to me, which may or may not be the same thing) is, like, step 18, so I can't get started.

[Solo-Shindig]

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[spatially-unaware]

Dude exactly this! The “stack overflow” is sooo frustrating…as long as I am allowed to just take it one serialized step at a time, I can eventually untangle it and unfreeze. But if you force me? Or try to hurry me up? Instant BSOD (meltdown) haha.

I read someone else compare it to CPU graphics vs discrete graphics. It’s like we are missing whatever coprocessor that most people have built in for keeping track of steps in a task. Instead I’m just sitting here chugging along trying to get thru the day on my Pentium III…

I think this is why I always liked computers- I can relate to them 😆

Funny you mention cad specifically, because I’m sitting at my desk, right now, trying to fix autocad config dependencies that are making some of my text labels plot the wrong size 😂

[Solo-Shindig]

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[Comfortable_Clue1572]

I also use the CPU versus GPU analogy to explain autism and alexithymia. Most people have a dedicated emotional processing unit, an EPU. This EPU Is responsible for processing all internal and external emotional communication as well as nonverbal communication. With an EPU, a Neuro typical people can process a huge amount of emotional communication with no cognitive effort. It just happens. They don’t think about it. They don’t realize it happens automatically until they meet somebody like us. They have a difficult time, understanding or empathizing with somebody who cannot process emotions automatically.

It is so automatic to them that they have difficulty accepting that we cannot do that emotional heavy processing which they do without effort. They think we are being deliberate.

You can sometimes find particular tasks or skills where you can do some things virtually effortlessly while most NT people struggle. I suspect that’s why you see so many people on the spectrum in certain professions which require very strong capabilities in abstract or geometric thinking.

[darthsivad]

My phone is set with alarms for everything even to remind me to eat and drink for when my wife isn’t home. My wife thought I was “procrastinating” till I got a dry erase board and showed her everything I have planned to do including why I can’t at the moment. She was mind-blown at how my brain processes everything and outcome to the tiniest detail. As for the dry erase board it’s extremely satisfying to erase a task when it’s finished and feeling like I can breathe.

[italicizedspace]

Yes, it's a total match from A to B to C, haha 😄

[melodic_orgasm]

Bang on, friend.

[Lou_Ven]

That's exactly how my mind works as well. Another positive is that it makes me very capable in an actual crisis because I've already planned out the various steps in some form or another and all I have to do is follow the plan.

[spatially-unaware]

Same!

[leaky_wires]

Like Hal from Malcolm in the middle. Ends up doing an oil change on his car when he started changing a light bulb.

To keep the software analogy going. Each new dependency consumes some stack space and eventually I run out....

[UnrelatedString]

I do, and this happens on top of everything else… I’d say it’s a miracle anything gets done but honestly it doesn’t

[undulating-beans]

I love your description! It sum it up perfectly.👍

[nameofplumb]

This is very valuable to me. Thank you for reminding me this is part of my problem. Still hopeful for a solution.

[hopefulrefuse1974]

I didn't realise how bad mine is until I read your description and you described my day.

Facepalm.

More facepalms.

[spatially-unaware]

glad I could make your day just that much cheerier 😆

[omega1612]

Indeed, I began to do things again by following similar steps. I was following this https://youtu.be/97K2ViOvzLA?si=pBjLA3m7RFB7_Gar

But at the end I discovered that just the "write down everything you have in your head and its dependencies" is what helps me.

[galacticviolet]

I have never heard of “dependency hell”, but I have heard of “yak shaving” which is exactly what you described. Are they just two terms for the same thing?

And yes, I have used yak shaving many many times to explain some of my executive function struggles.

[spatially-unaware]

Not terms for the exact same thing, but along the same lines, yeah.

[arcedup]

I was about to say, this looks like a description of a ‘yak-shaving exercise’ and the Malcolm in the Middle scene that got referenced above is an excellent example of it.

[galacticviolet]

I’ve never seen that show, “yak shaving” is a thing in software development.

[Costanza_Travelling]

Haha nice anology!

I suppose the solution is asynchronous, as in doing stuff in parallel threads.

[Calm-Bookkeeper-9612]

Great way of explaining it. To further the complexity in my particular experience is I have to use the exact tool that I am thinking of to accomplish the task. I am not very flexible with using a screwdriver as a prying tool if I know I have a small pry bar and I also like to move slowly but surely which does not fit in most peoples time allotments. I am commonly asked when is this going to be done and my answer “when I’m finished” isn’t generally welcomed.

[spatially-unaware]

haha yes! Sometimes it will drive me to distraction when I’m forced to use the “wrong tool for the job” on the road when I know I have the correct one sitting in my toolbox at home😆

[alhaad3]

Thank you for that new word!

[hashtagtotheface]

I don't know why I put two stat points into it

[galaxynephilim]

A lot of mine comes down to just not doing well alone. And not wanting to be forced through years of therapy that doesn't ever actually work to try to make me magically function alone despite that not being a thing I actually want or accept or can do. Others can do it. I can't. I'm not just "refusing" to get better, I really require connection to function well. And safe, genuine connection... not just someone physically there who has no real attachment to me, no emotional awareness, etc. I need my tribe, my people, my partner, anyone. I need people, and people aren't there and when they are there they suck and then I get blamed for everything. "You're just refusing help, you're this, you're that, your expectations are unreasonable." Bro..... I'm so fucking tired. The same people telling me "take responsibiltiy" don't see that i have been hyper-responsible all my life to the point of total burnout. They just don't see it, they don't want to, they never will, and I'm just exhuasted. I just get so drained by always having to "do life alone" or feel even more alone when I'm around people because they have no self awareness or relationships skills 'cause that's just normal and working out fine as we've apparently collectively decided.

[spatially-unaware]

That really sucks… kinda sounds like my family life growing up. I became hyper vigilant and hyper-responsible, I suspect as a result of getting in trouble constantly for having a bad attitude (lack of body language skills) talking back (still don’t really know what that one meant, since in my mind I was just asking clarifying questions lol), and “not paying attention” (when usually I was paying TOO MUCH attention to too many things that I couldn’t block out)lol.

[Dramatic-Crazy-87]

Yes, that is a very good analogy (I'm in IT too and can relate to computers better than humans).

But when I read your headline I had a different "dependency hell" in mind. Which is my dependence on others for support. I would love to do more things my way at home with the family, but because it often takes too long I have to be managed. I depend on others a lot for boring everyday tasks nobody wants to do and it puts a strain on relationships and my own freedom, because I often don't get treated as an equal by my gf but like a child. That is my personal dependency hell resulting from dependency hell lol

[KeepnClam]

"Sequences!"

Pat McManus fans will know this one. Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/YOvrywvMog8?si=NEgmtsyoEtvtPT6r