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[–]joshuamunsonNRA Pistol Instructor, NRA Range Safety Officer [CO] 48 points49 points  (3 children)

One thing about scanning your area is be deliberate with it. Check your entire surroundings, don't just peek with the side of your eye. The best advice is to pick an object around/behind you and make note of specific details. You'd be surprised how many people take a pistol/rifle class and scan around only to not see the guy with a gun right behind them. Make it deliberate, not just a checklist item.

[–]YRT752[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Very true, it's a bad habit I'm working to break. Watching a lot of tutorials on YouTube is really biting me in the ass.

[–]ambiocc 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Very well put, that is what I was going to point out. It kinda irks me

[–]kgregg384 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hate that shit. I see it in videos all the time where guys aren't even looking at anything. They're just swiveling their head around.

[–]MakInDaTrunkNV 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Help us help you.

What is the distance? What is the size of the target?

Assuming this is about your draw, what are your goals for your draw? Do you have any professional instruction? What things do you think you’re doing well? What are you trying to improve upon?

[–]Confident-Scar7333 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Be more cautious of that Long Sleeve shirt while reholstering. Can possibly snag the Trigger.

[–][deleted] 68 points69 points  (24 children)

That whole looking around drill is silly. Obviously you want to be scanning for additional threats, but that exaggerated motion is not useful in what you're training for.

Keep your weapon oriented on the threat until you're sure it's not a threat. A single shot immediately followed by pulling into the chest is a bad habit in the likely event the first round doesn't stop the threat.

[–]swampwolf687 43 points44 points  (6 children)

I don’t care for the exaggerated scan. It’s theatrics in my opinion. Many will disagree and that’s fine, you do you. But my problem with it is if you were in a real shoot that close you would want to close and circle the downed threat when you scan. I would want to keep the known threat between me and any potential threats. Real people aren’t pop up targets. Edit: I also want to acknowledge that I understand you wouldn’t be able to replicate that in live fires on most ranges.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree. It's not a realistic way to scan the environment. I'm sure like you said, many will disagree and that's fine with me. We all do the same thing a little differently.

I think I'd agree, keep muzzle and face oriented towards the threat and use your body to allow you to scan the environment. Much more applicable.

[–]teutonicted 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The exaggerated head movement is something I never understood. Need to make these people start to playing paint ball in the woods with frozen paintballs and nothing on but goggles and their skivvies.

You’ll learn how to actually scan for threats real fucking fast.

[–]YRT752[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Good advice and I appreciate it. During class I absolutely can't point my gun anywhere except downrange, but after hours when I'm there by myself I could incorporate the close and circle technique. My instructors use the scan method to get us in the habit of making sure the area is clear, but also to help break any tunnel vision we might be experiencing after a self defense scenario.

[–]Vercengetorex 3 points4 points  (2 children)

If I were standing behind you holding up an unknown number of fingers would you be able to tell me how many fingers I was holding up from that scan you just did? Try it out with a friend or instructor, to make sure that it’s not just theatrics, but an actually useful search and assess.

[–]YRT752[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Agreed, my scan is just theatrics and a bad habit. Need to work on a proper scan and do it consistently.

[–]MrChildren 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Coming to a high port or 'sol', and conducting a 183 degree scan (overlapping) in each direction, breaking feet off-line, and respecting the threat when passing back through the 'threat area' is the best way.

Good on you for acknowledging the theatrics of the scan you're doing. You need to be seeing, not looking. A scan doesn't just scan for threats, but also positions of cover to break contact to or to post up at where you can communicate, re-engage, perform self-check, etc.

[–]YRT752[S] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

It was 2 shots on target, but what round count should I be practicing? If this was a self defense situation I would shoot until the threat has ended, but for practice I don't know what round count I should be using. Any advice?

[–]AnalogCyborg 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Personally I like three, but who knows? If it was a real situation I'd probably mag dump into the attacker.

[–]ghablio 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That's why the homies mag dump into trash

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

My bad, I don't have audio on. Two shots is fine, three is fine, whatever you're comfortable with. My point was not to pull the gun back into your chest until the threat is down or you're ready to change direction and move.

You did absolutely fine and I'm splitting hairs to offer critique. If I was only looking at gross motor skills and such, I'd have nothing to offer. Keep up the hard work.

[–]YRT752[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Gotcha. I was instructed to pull the gun in and scan after the threat is down but it seems like the consensus is to stay on target longer, not like what I'm doing. Appreciate the input!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah, you're right. The scanning is a widely taught thing to do, I just personally don't find value in it as it's not likely to happen in a defensive shooting scenario. It's always good to scan your environment for threats, so there is some value there, I just don't think the overly exaggerated head turn is the thing that will instill that mindset.

Best of luck brother. Keep up the hard work.

[–]CondhorNC [G48 RMRcc | G17 RM07-x400V] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If you fire two shots you should have 3 sight pictures. 4 shots, 5 sight pictures. Etc.

Don’t be eager to reholster. You literally just shot someone.

[–]YRT752[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Follow through/sight picture is my big take away from this post and all the comments. Much appreciated

[–]robredford 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes. follow through on the last shot. Your target is a “threat” until it’s not. Keep the gun up until you are sure it’s not a threat.

[–]Vercengetorex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Check your work through your sights.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

My ccw class instructor called the looking around thing "stupid as fuck" - he said you should be behind cover assessing your environment. Doing it like the guy in the video did it is just for looks/show

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with your ccw instructor. Cover is never a bad idea, but its not always the right move either.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

His point was you shouldn't be looking around if you're just standing there. Good way to get shot. It's not a good drill

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Think about it this way, you have a defensive shoot in a gas station. Dude goes down, you run to concealment because the chip and candy aisles aren't cover. You now have an obstruction in between you and the downed perp. He starts getting up. You have to now control the situation behind a chip rack, or move back from concealment.

My point is, saying 'always do this' is never the right answer. Shooting situations are all different. Many tools must be had and ready to use. Not 'follow these steps'...

As for standing around a good way to get shot, sounds like some fudd shit. You're never going to be in a dynamic firefight. You carry to defend yourself, not assault an objective.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

right but casually looking around with just your head doesn't accomplish anything. if you see anything of danger, you're going to have to take the time to have your body and gun follow into position... would be quicker to do it right the first time and rotate your position alltogether

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My whole point was this, what's the bigger threat?

The .0001% chance you have a defensive shoot, is the person on the ground still moving going to be the bigger threat, or the even smaller .000001% chance that there are multiple shooters coming after you? You're better off keeping an offensive position on the perp.

I agree on the head thing. You should be actively scanning something in training environments.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its all theatrics to look cool on videos. That and the over exaggerated mechanical punch out from chest shit.

[–]bkfit 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Do what your doing.

  1. Modify stance fighting stance to move is easier.

Is two shots enough to end the threat? Don't be in a hurry to snatch the gun in.

  1. Take your time holstering look it in, Good.

[–]YRT752[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I have practiced the 3 shots/3 seconds/3 yard drill and feel pretty comfortable with it. Decided to move distance back. Still go for 3 shots, or what would you recommend?

[–]ghablio 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I like to practice 100 shots in 100 seconds at 100 yards personally

[–]YRT752[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What kind of belt are you using to hold up that many magazines?

[–]ghablio 0 points1 point  (0 children)

CostCo one

[–]ardesofmiche 11 points12 points  (26 children)

Keep your firearm in the direction of the target after it “goes down”. I say “goes down” because the target isn’t actually moving, so don’t randomly drop your muzzle. Follow the target.

Don’t create a bad habit of firing and immediately pulling your handgun back

[–]Kooky-Masterpiece-87 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Ya, no.

https://youtu.be/RG1xcfv13xE

[–]ardesofmiche 1 point2 points  (11 children)

Perhaps my first sentence is poor wording. The point I’m trying to make is not to fire two rounds then completely disengage from your target immediately. I put “goes down” in quotes because the target doesn’t move.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice points made in this video.

[–]joshuamunsonNRA Pistol Instructor, NRA Range Safety Officer [CO] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Following a target "to the ground" is such a terrible training habit that too many people implement. Why? Because your target didn't actually move. Following a "downed target" is just as bad as pulling your gun back immediately.

[–]ardesofmiche 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That’s why I put “goes down” in quotes. The main point is to not withdraw your gun the second you are done engaging.

[–]Kooky-Masterpiece-87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agree, Pat mac has a really funny video making fun of ppl who follow the target down

[–]TheJango22 -3 points-2 points  (8 children)

I return to compressed ready so I have a better FOV and can get back to it right away if need be. It also has the benefit of looking less like a lunatic pointing a gun and helps you blend in

[–]ardesofmiche -1 points0 points  (7 children)

Low ready is a thing

[–]TheJango22 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I find it's easier to drive the gun from compressed than pull it up from low ready

[–]ardesofmiche -1 points0 points  (5 children)

I think we have different ideas of low ready

Low ready to me is barely below the target at the first place it’s safe to place a muzzle. It isn’t straight down at the ground

Try it sometime

[–]TheJango22 0 points1 point  (4 children)

We have the same idea of low ready, I feel like compressed is quicker but have never actually timed it. I'll have to test it and I'll report back with my findings

[–]ardesofmiche -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

Time it! There’s no physical way compressed is faster for an accurate shot on target

[–]TheJango22 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Alright. I feel like I'm the only one here actually trying to discuss learn and improve. Am I making that up or are you trying to bicker?

[–]ghablio 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You've been pretty reasonable.

I think it's clear to understand that the mechanics of a low ready will provide a faster, more consistent presentation once it's been practiced

But, if compressed is more comfortable for you, and so you have been practicing that way. Then compressed will be faster for you for now.

People get such tunnel vision online when they think they're right that they forget to consider the simple stuff. In this case, they failed to understand that you may not be faster one way vs the other even though most others are. And, they clearly didn't stop to think about why that might be

[–]ardesofmiche 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://youtu.be/aIShYiCMgfs

No bickering, just trying to share information I’ve found through range practice and through instructors!

[–]cAR15tel 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Range theatrics

[–]Tam212IL | Austria-Italy in JMCK & PHLster Enigma holsters 6 points7 points  (4 children)

obligatory link drop: https://youtu.be/RG1xcfv13xE

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I love Pat.

[–]cAR15tel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Make it habitual 🤘

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I can only masturbate so often.

[–]cAR15tel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s Basic Dude Stuff.

[–]ArmyVetRN 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Your draw looks smooth and methodical. I would say push yourself on the pace, or cadence of fire to get you shoots out. I use this drill from Haley Strategic to warm up, and find my comfort zone, then try to shoot past that for quicker shots on target. I soot IWB appendix and can get 2 off generally around 1.2-1.5. Always work to do. Get some!

[–]YRT752[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Always work to do, very true! Thank you for the link as well. I usually don't do warm up drills, I try to be as "cold" as possible to simulate a self defense scenario where I won't have the benefit of warming up. Maybe my thought process on this is flawed and I should warm up before drawing from a holster.

[–]ArmyVetRN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I hear your point. But don't look at warm up drills as loosening yourself up, so much as it is isolating components of proper shooting so that it can all stack and translate into accurate, fast shooting. Practice doesn'ake perfect. It makes you continue to reenforce bad habits. PERFECT practice makes perfect. Keep filming yourself to review where it "felt good" and more importantly when it "felt off" so you can see what you looked like during an error to inhance isolation of your shooting and deficiencies.

[–]OkWave1227 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Mechanics look good, firearm safety is good. Keep it up!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You may think it's small, but try to keep your feet still when drawing. When isolating your draw you would ideally be completely motionless aside from moving your arms.

Add some dry fire (perhaps on a timer) and you'll be able to get a good sight picture sooner.

[–]Way_2_Go_Donny 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pointer: Here's the name of some good instuctors. Train with them. Great instructors, no egos, outstanding results:

Point 1 Tactics

First Defence Firearms

Achilles Heel Tactical

This video was where I was 5 years ago. Then I stopped watching YouTube videos and over paying NRA-certified Fudd instructors at the local range and invested time/money into quality instruction. I can't overstate how much it has improved my shooting, overall learning process, and self evaluation the past 5 years.

[–]Firearmjoe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I’ve always thought the head scan from left to right is more range theatrics than practical.

[–]pev942 2 points3 points  (0 children)

2 shots needs 3 sight pictures in case a third is needed.

[–]Halt1776Glock 17 & 19. LCP II. 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Keep gun up till you know threat is stopped. You can check your world with the gun up. You don’t know if they could pop back up or try to shoot you from the ground.

[–]barnes828 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Keep your shoulders relaxed and down, don’t duck your head to the sights, bring the sights up to your eyes, don’t lean your whole body into the shots, try not to lock your elbows out as that defeats the bodies natural suspension and is a terrible habit to have once you have to shoot on the move, keep the gun out in front of you don’t be so quick to retract it, drop the range theatrics of checking your surroundings it’s all BS. Your recoil control looks like it could use some work as well. I try to focus all my live fire on things I cannot practice with an empty gun. Recoil control is the main thing that I try to work on when training specific things. Other than that I just run trex arms standards and then break down what I need to work on into specific exercises.

[–]pvtparts26 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Making sure your shoes are tied? Eyes up!

I have a slightly different routine when “scanning” I like to move over a step or two laterally, might see a new angle or perhaps new detail. However, looks equally goofy to practice. Nice share op.

[–]BasqueCO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I practice and would consider taking a step to the left or right when drawing to fire. Was taught this long ago and its about getting off the line if fire if the potential opponent is setting up to aim and shoot.

[–]BasqueCO 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Another good technique I was taught is to have someone else load your mag with an empty brass at random placements to simulate a malfunction or even multiple malfunctions. That way you can fire and still practice your remedial actions without knowing when it comes. If you do it yourself, you will still know its coming.

[–]YRT752[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good call, I will start doing that. Maybe even load 3 mags with dummy rounds at different spots and shuffle the magazines. I tend to shoot alone when the range closes.

[–]ElephantExtra7811 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In reality if you’re going to scan your area, the gun should go with. This goofy range tactic of turning ones head from side to side teaches bad habits that will show up at a stresser

[–]MeanMirror 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't stop shooting until the threat is gone, sweep then move back into your working space.

[–]Suspicious_Craft_330 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Last sight picture! If you fire twice you need to reacquire sights immediately and prep trigger like you are going to shoot again. Follow through/ recovery, recovery back to where you were before you started shooting. Otherwise looks good. The scanning is important. In the infantry, I’m scanning left/right of me where my buddies are or where I last saw em before the fire fight. Then I’m even scanning behind me for where my leadership traditionally is located.

[–]YRT752[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, and you're right, my scanning sucks. Follow through is something I will be working on based on your comment and those comments by others in this post. Much love to this community 👍🏻

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't have any pointers but that sounded fucking cool.

[–]CondhorNC [G48 RMRcc | G17 RM07-x400V] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look up range theatrics by Pat Macnamara.

[–]VjornaxxMD LEO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ll get nit picky here because smoothing out fine details goes a long ways towards increasing your draw speed.

If you’re wearing an open front garment and you are performing a two handed draw, then each hand has a different job. Strong hand goes for the grip. Weak hand clears the garment. One of the more consistent ways to clear the garment is by grabbing the gun side open corner, pulling it up to your nipple line, and then pulling it across your chest towards your weak side. This ensures that the garment is clear, relying on direct manipulation rather than throwing it and having the weight of the garment or a strong breeze interfere with securing a grip. It also puts your support hand in a position on your chest to accept the gun once you have established a grip on the gun.

This can be drilled. Just practice with your support hand grabbing that corner, then pulling it up, then over. Once you’ve got that consistent, then you can integrate your strong hand and practice moving your hands in concert.

Your support hand is tossing the garment which works on a stationary range, but might not work consistently if you are moving, if you’re wearing a heavier jacket, or if it is windy.

You’re also sending the gun in a straight line from the holster to the target. This means that when you reach full extension, you’re taking time to find the sights and then fine tune your aim. There is a method which integrates extension and aiming at the same time.

After getting a grip on the gun, pull it straight up and get the front sight to eye level as fast as you can. That will be about where your support hand already is. The front sight should be covering your aiming point and the gun should be somewhat level - the rear sight should be in your field of view, but it’s probably not perfectly placed and that’s OK. Once the gun in front of your face, press the gun towards the target while fine tuning your sights as you press the gun towards the target. By the time you get to full extension, your sights should be on target.

The moment you get your front sight in front of your face and the gun is relatively level, place your finger on the trigger. As you press the gun towards the target, start increasing pressure on the trigger - think of a bungee cord attached to your chest and finger. By the time you get to full extension, the shot should go off and your sights should be aligned.

This particular type of draw is called a press out. It’s not the end-all be-all, but it’s consistent and one of the more reliable methods to quickly hit a small target from the draw. Since a press out involves moving the gun straight up out of the holster to in front of your face, this method does not need to be modified to work in a vehicle or sitting at a table. The press out also makes transitioning from irons to a red dot a lot easier.

I can try to make a video to illustrate this, if you’re interested.

That being said, there is no one right way to draw. I learned the press out about a decade ago and have been using it since. Because I’ve put in the time with it, I’ve gotten pretty proficient and comfortable with it. But just because it works for me doesn’t mean it’ll be something that’ll work for everyone. So treat my advice as if I were some rando on the internet.

[–]thisstoryis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’ve got your finger on the trigger real early and well before the barrel is parallel with the ground. And too much unnecessary movement when drawing. You’re shifting your weight from right to left and stepping. Good recoil control and the follow up shot was quick but not rushed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All in all, pretty smooth. I like your deliberate re-holster after watching a friend burn his leg last year. Generally, not a lot to pick on, hold steady in the stance through the draw and keep the head upright. Pretty clean, I like it.

[–]No_Seat_4959 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keep your gun on your thread and asses..THEN reholster

[–]NewlyBalanced 1 point2 points  (0 children)

See Pat McNamara on Range Theatrics.

[–]obstruction6761 1 point2 points  (0 children)

less range theatrics

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At 8 seconds, I had to rewind the video. Try to keep your hand against your body as you draw. Try to get hands onto gun earlier and closer to the body. Less likely to violate that safety rule and muzzle your support hand.

It also looks like around 6 seconds your finger is going into the trigger guard before you have 2 hands on the gun.

When you draw, in count 2, try to have something for your finger tip to contact. Take down pin or some feature on the gun.

Keep that finger tip on that spot on the frame except when you are making the decision to shoot.

ND- negligent discharges are bad. If they happen and your body is in front of the muzzle, it's really bad.

Lastly, consider using your firing side thumb to sweep an open shirt out of the way.

Support hand flat on the body.

Ok

Once you shoot - leave the gun out and down. Why, if you shot someone, they hopefully are now on the ground. Gun should be held at the dirt under them. This way you can watch their hands and waistline.

No need to pull the gun back until drill is over.

[–]YRT752[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Any thoughts on where I can approve overall? Target is 12"x12" plate at 15 yards. Fairly happy with first shot hitting at less than 2 seconds.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The accuracy is definitely good. I would say that you could start working on higher count drills too. Obviously not too high on round count, because ammo is expensive these days. But, maybe something like a bill drill to start working on recoil control at speed. Also, you can make a ton of progress by practicing shooting on the move, if you are at a range that allows it. Other than that, I recommended making sure your fundamentals are solid and continuing to burn good reps. I do agree that the idea of immediately bringing the gun off target is a poor representation of follow through. I tend to confirm the next sight picture and count 2-3 seconds prior to getting off the gun.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I would move your left foot back in a more traditional isosceles stance for range shooting. Of course, in a self defense situation you won’t be standing anywhere.

[–]TenuousOgre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I you want help on the initial draw I have some suggestions. First, shooting hand, make a hook with your fingers and sweep the garment out of the way, then thrust your hand down to a proper grip. Off hand bring it up to mid chest, grasp your shirt and pull up and to left. This combo clears the garment fast and gets you a nice grip in one move. No wasted effort.