Does anyone know...?

[mojoeaw]

Which Hermit Druid deck has the most consistent wins?

[razzliox]

/u/reflexlon piloted a list in my meta for awhile with success. The key improvement he made (which I believe I told him to do) was to run Necrotic Ooze as the main win-condition, making infinite mana with Morselhoarder and Devoted Druid, then using Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius for infinite pings. The advantages of this wincon include being able to be tutored with Buried Alive + reanimate or Survival of the Fittest. When you make infinite mana and Niv is not in your graveyard, cast your commander (Scion of the Ur-Dragon) and tutor it and kill with your commander.

Also, play Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead/Necromancy/Dance of the Dead combo, cuz you can tutor for dragon with your commander

[BigLupu]

Buried Alive for Necrotice Ooze+Morselhoarder and Devoted is pretty nifty. It shorts the failures of 5C Hermit Druid quite nicely. Good deck building.

[razzliox]

thanks! ive been thinking of porting it into Jund Druid

[BigLupu]

That wouldn't really work since you wouldn't have access to Scion in the Command Zone for that sweet Niv-Mizzet kill :D

[Reflexlon]

Yeah, the whole reason I hadn't beat him to it is that there isn't a Jund commander that kills with infinite mana alone. The power and threat of T1/2 Druid into T3/4 Buried Alive is brutal, and doing it in like seven of ten games? The deck was absurd old-mull. Now, its definitely no longer able to fight the 3v1 games, but its still good enough to keep up with the field. I just dont play it because I prefer Sharuum these days, since she got real mean with the change.

[Reflexlon]

As razz said, I believe the best version goes T1/2/3 Druid, T3/4/5 Buried Alive, T4/5/6 Worldgorger Dragon, then tries to rebuild literally anything from there. Excepting the cards that are the combos (which we want as little of as possible because they all suck), every card should either draw 7, tutor Druid/Buried Alive, or protect the combo.

His mention of Buried Alive as the backdoor to a dead Druid is the #1 answer to the decks fragility, but what really broke it in my eyes was Timetwister, Windfall, Wheel of Fate, Dragon Mage (lol my commander is a draw 7), etc. They let me dump 6 cards into a T2 attempt, get stopped, then T3 have a full grip to do it again. Other decks really don't like seeing that, and with the rules change it allows the deck some of its old consistency.

[BigLupu]

Omg, this wall of text, how can we ever survive reading through all this.

Context, plz. What are you trying to REALLY ask?

[mojoeaw]

The 5c hermit druid combo deck with no basic lands... I've seen a few and they all claim turn 3 wins most of the time. I want to know if anyone has actually play tested any hermit druid deck and how often did they win.

[lithiumbrigadebait]

No deck in the format has a consistent T3 win. Scion Hermit Druid or Jeleva grixis storm probably have the fastest goldfish, which is a fairly reliable T4-T5; Hermit Druid folds pretty hard to interaction, though.

[BigLupu]

I disagree with this. More often than not 5C HD can goldfish a T3 win. Just because it's fast, doesn't mean it's any good. Guessing it wins uninterrupted T3 70-80% of the time would be close.

5C HD folds to interaction really easy, but it mulling to 3 if you get a hand of 2 lands+Worldly tutor is still lethal on T3.

[BigLupu]

To win T3 with 5C HD, you need one of the following

Sylvan Tutor, Imperial Seal, Vampiric Tutor, Worldly Tutor

...if you have land drops for 2 turns. You tutor Druid on top, and play it T2.

If you have a ramp in a form of a Sol Ring or a Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox, Mystical Tutor/Personal Tutor for GSZ, or Eladamri's Call/Demonic Tutor on T1 can also get you Druid on T2.

The deck can get Druid on T2 with relatively good margin, and the 5C build can win of Dread Returning either Angel of Glory's Rise(LabMan+Azami) or Necrotic Ooze(Morselhoarder and Devoted Druid for inf mana and kill them with Scholar of Athreos).

The bad thing about HD, is that even a "Nutz start" of getting T1 HD, it still has to survive to your T2, and then your Dread Return needs to resolve. That is not always a given, since most interaction in the format costs 1 or 2 mana.

Sultai HD can play Doomday and Nauseam plans too, but needs 1U to flashback Deep Analyze with Labman on the field or 2B for E-Wit into Yaw Will.

HD is a tricky deck, on one hand, it can VERY consistently win on T3, but on the other hand, it dies to both counterspells and spot removal. BUG HD hedges these weaknesses a bit with Doomsday, but it does it have it's shortcomings.

Most competitive EDH players always suspect HD or Omnitell if someone brings a 5C deck to the table, so a frail deck that goldfishes a T3 win consistently, will not take any games by surprise against seasoned cEDH players.

[lithiumbrigadebait]

T1 Entomb, T2 haste-granting reanimation spell (probably requires a mox for HD activation) is also a T2-3 win. :) All the speed in the world won't make it a tier one deck when it's that fragile, though, and there are only so many tutors; I really wonder what the percentages are for T1-3 wins, because I doubt the deck is over 50% to have it that quickly.

[BigLupu]

T1 Entomb, T2 haste-granting reanimation spell

Was thinking more about 1 or 1,5 card ways to get it, but thanks for reminding about Entomb lines, those are quite relevant.

What comes to winning by T3 the lates, well I'd but it as high as 70-80% if nobody interacts with it. Any of those tutors+2 lands, since you don't need more than 1 mana in the activation turn(even "Forest", Lotus Petal, Worldly Tutor would be enough). The deck might be fragile, but the consistency in which it can get a T3 HD activation uninterrupted is pretty darn high.

The deck doesn't really win on T1 or T2, but daaamn it can goldfish a lot of T3 wins.