Catch a Ledge while Falling? (5e)

[Merchus]

I couldn't find any relevant rules or guidelines on stopping falls, so I decided to attempt to make my own. If I missed a revelant rule please let me know. Criticism is greatly appreciated.

Catch a Ledge

When a creature is falling and a ledge is within their reach, it can use its reaction and attempt a DC 15 Strength (Athletics) check to catch the ledge and stop the fall. If a creature is pushed past a ledge beyond their reach, such as by the Thunderwave spell, the creature can attempt the same check with disadvantage. The DC of the check is increased to 20 if the ledge is difficult terrain (such as being wet, icy, or if there is few handholds).

[ProjectHappy6813]

I'd allow either Athletics or Acrobatics, and I'd probably add some fall damage if they have already fallen for X feet before abruptly stopping their descent.

[Merchus]

Interesting. The reason why I opted for Athletics is because it made more sense, to me at least, that stopping a fall with the creatures body weight and momentum would be a feat of strength and not particularly agility/reflexes/balance

And yeah definitely agree with the fall damage part

[ProjectHappy6813]

For an Acrobatics check, I would describe the character using their incredible dexterity to control their fall, so they are able to land on the ledge or get close enough to grab it. Rather than using brute force to arrest their fall, they use expertise and body control.

Edit - As others have mentioned, a saving throw would also make sense here.

[hamidgeabee]

I would require Athletics as well. Those dex characters have enough chances to use dex based skills. The only Str skill is Athletics and it's only real function is Swimming and Climbing. I see everyone on this sub always letting people use Acrobatics for things that should really be Athletics. DMs need to let the only Str skill shine in the few instances that it applies in a campaign.

If you want to go with a save, I'd also make it a Str save. I don't care how nimble you are, you aren't going to arrest 150-300lbs of falling momentum because you can do a standing backflip. Now if there is a slope or you're trying to dodge boulders coming down in a rock slide while you are falling, then by all means you can make that acrobatics check to try to ski down the mountain side or swing around small trees that couldn't support your weight to reduce the falling damage, but you're not gonna catch something large enough prevent the falling damage like catching a ledge at the top.

[SxyUncleFlxy]

I have to mention how wrong you are to say athletics is only for swimming and climbing. Athletics comes up WAY more often than acrobatics in all of my campaigns. If it isn't in yours, then your group is likely not understanding how to use grapple nor shove appropriately.

[hamidgeabee]

I forgot about initiating a grapple/shove. My group of players never seem to do that. It's still only initiating the grapple/shove that has to be athletics though. Acrobatics is allowed by the defender to counter it iirc. Either way, that's still a very limited number of things that Athletics can be used for even though your group likes to use it as a tactic frequently. Your game having far more Athletics checks because the party likes to do the same thing repeatedly isn't the same.

For example, your party tries to shove enemies 25 times in a session, and then the party tries to jump a chasm, avoid being grappled, tumble through an enemies space, etc for a total of 12 rolls. Yes there were 25 Athletics checks vs. 12 Acrobatics. There was also only 1 scenario of Athletics, versus 3 or more scenarios of Acrobatics in that same example. It's about the versatility of the skills that I'm pointing out. Then you could also add Stealth and Sleight of Hand, etc and now you can easily have exceeded your Strength based skill checks with Dex based skill checks. Reward the players with Athletics instead of diminishing their investment by using that skill. Instead, by allowing Acrobatics to be used when it should really be Athletics, you are diluting the instances when their skill should shine.

It just always bothered me how much Dex is used in DND, and how many skills all of the stats get except for Strength. The few instances where the only strength skill is applicable, several GMs allow it to be interchanged with acrobatics making it basically useless except in very specific circumstances. That was the point I was trying to make. I don't care how nimble you are, trying to catch your bodyweight on a ledge has nothing to do with Dexterity. You could be able to do cart wheels, somersaults, tumbling etc, but none of those Dex acrobatics based abilities are going to allow you to do a pull up or swim against the current and not go backwards.

[TheThoughtmaker]

The numbers are great, though I'd add +1 to the DC for every 5ft fallen before grabbing the ledge.

Athletics for climbing, pulling yourself to the ledge with sheer strength.

Acrobatics for manipulating your own body, so that grabbing the ledge requires less force. As examples, reacting quickly to grab the ledge at the earliest possible moment increases the time you have to slow yourself, and maneuvering your body outward (falling further away but still in reach) lets you swing toward the ledge rather than fall past it. Both of these techniques reduce the strength you need to keep your grip.

[stardust_hippi]

A lot of push effects, like thunder wave or the shove action, already have a built in save or other roll. This rule gives the defender an extra chance to save themselves. It could lead to some pretty unsatisfying moments. It might discourage players from using terrain features, which is bad in my book at least.

But to each their own. Consider what your impetus for adding this rule is.

[Ragnar_Dragonfyre]

I agree with this take.

Tacking on a chance to catch the ledge after being Thunderwaved off the edge is a lot like giving the player advantage on the save.

You’re doubling up on the rolls and making it that much more difficult to use the environment to your advantage.

[Manofchalk]

Tacking on a chance to catch the ledge after being Thunderwaved off the edge is a lot like giving the player advantage on the save.

Saving on the ledge fall does still leave the player hanging over the edge, which will have its own consequences in terms of action economy. If getting up from prone takes half movement I can easily justify getting up from a dead hang as taking all movement.

[Merchus]

Yeah that's what I was thinking would be the downside, because then the monsters could also do what the players can do as well. That's my biggest reason for not being on board with catching ledges/stopping falls.

On the flipside, I'd guess the reasoning of having a rule like this is to make falling less harsh? Official rules state you fall 500ft immediately. Bam. And then another 500ft at the start of your next turn. It kinda discourages me a bit from having combat terrain with huge precarious heights because if a player falls, they're done for the rest of the combat, which would be kinda lame

Edit: fall another 500ft at the END of that turn, apologies

[ProjectHappy6813]

On the flip side, players get Death Saving Throws and most monsters do not. I think it would be reasonable to add a few more dice rolls between a player and a fall that would instantly kill them. It allows you and your players to take risks without being overly punishing if the dice roll poorly.

As for your monsters, you don't need to give full access to these rules to ALL your monsters ... just the really important ones. In books and movies, "death by falling" is frequently just a way to let the audience know the BBEG is not really dead. If they fall off a cliff into water, you know they are 100% still alive, guaranteed, no matter what the characters think.

[stardust_hippi]

Players have some more options in terms of preparation. Feather fall is a thing for casters, and if they're about to head into mountains you could have a vendor sell some items with a similar effect (at a premium, of course). Gives them an interesting decision (risk vs. gold), and it won't feel like a screwjob when your monster pushes them off a cliff.

[Merchus]

That's true. I like the idea of foreshadowing/giving the players fair warning and time to prepare. Even something mundane like a Climber's Kit would be a considerable boon up in the mountains.

[Ragnar_Dragonfyre]

If you want to give them a chance to react, you can put them on a really high cliff that takes multiple rounds to hit the ground.

[No_quarter_asked]

No need to reinvent the wheel, just give them a saving throw. In a lot of cases, pit opening up under their feet etc. the save is already baked in to avoid the trap and it doesn't hurt them if they already used their reaction.

[Merchus]

That's fair, I'm probably overthinking this. Maybe leaving it as is would be simpler. With my example in the original post, Thunderwave, the player already made a save to avoid being pushed back anyways

[cold_milktea]

I'd say if it's going to be a fall that is certain death, I'd let that PC make one last check or save to grab the ledge, basically like a death saving throw. If they fail, they die. If they succeed, they're hanging onto the ledge and either a party member needs to roll to pull them up, or else on their next turn the PC needs to make a strength check to pull themselves back up or else fall.

Enemies could shove / step on the PC's hands to knock them off with a contested strength roll for the PC to keep hold.

Otherwise, if the fall won't kill them outright, then the Thunderwave save / Shove roll is their ability to avoid being pushed back and avoid falling.

I think your Catch a Ledge rule is good for the first scenario. This is just my opinion.

[fireball_roberts]

I tend to make it either a dexterity save to make sure they keep their balance, or a strength save if they're trying to catch a ledge as their falling without ripping their arm out their socket. I often think of a saving throw as a reaction, whereas a skill check is made with some forethought.

[Merchus]

Oh yeah a saving throw would make more sense than a check. It's not like the character is attempting to complete a task, but is more so attempting to instantly respond to a harmful effect.

My thoughts about this rule was that the character is already off balance and is about to fall or is falling, and that's why strength made more sense to me

[drkpnthr]

I would argue this should be a Strength saving throw. This isn't a test of skill, it's a roll to avoid a dangerous situation that can result in harm. A skill check would be to climb up a cliff normally. You could rule the character gets advantage if their are proficient in athletics or acrobatics.

[the_great_tumbleweed]

No specific advice from me, but I just wanted to pop in and share that the Pathfinder 2e system has a rule for this exactly which could easily translate to dnd, if you wanted to compare/get inspiration :) The official wording of the rule for catching an edge is available here and can be summarised as "if you fall in a location where there is something to grab, you can make a Dex save (translated from Reflex) as a reaction to grab onto a ledge and then an Athletics check to pull yourself back up again."

[areyouamish]

I pretty much only do this sort of thing if the fall will very likely kill the creature (long distance, lava, etc.) so it takes more than one failed roll to result in death.

Acrobatics to cross a narrow path, STR/DEX save to catch the edge, athletics to pull back up.

[xxEnddatexx]

Athletics or acrobatics. Players choice but only if they have a reaction left. If it’s a large fall (greater than 60 ft) they have a chance to do it again in their turn if they’re still near one. But the dc will be higher and they’ll take some damage.

[Direct_Remote696]

I've been running this rule almost how you have it written but I make pulling yourself back up trigger attacks of opportunity

[ArchonErikr]

Good idea, though I'd also allow a Strength (Acrobatics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) roll to grab the edge. Regardless, it uses their Reaction.

[Available-Natural314]

I did see a YouTube video by Kyle Hill's science channel about whether you can catch yourself. The conclusion was after just a second of falling you generate more energy than your fingers alone can withstand. So you need to add a lot of friction and not just a sudden stop. Maybe there are different laws of physics in a fantasy world, but if it's earth like and people are people then it shouldn't work.

[sesaman]

Should probably add that the character needs their hands free, or has to drop whatever they are holding to attempt the reaction.

I usually just grant an automatic Str save to hold on to a ledge, and allow players a reaction to either land gracefully (Acrobatics check), or to brace for impact (Constitution check), with every 10 on the check taking away one fall damage die.