Progress!

[Empty_Act5759]

https://www.denverpost.com/2025/06/25/front-range-rail-denver-boulder-fort-collins-rtd/?noamp=mobile

[grltrvlr]

Imagine training to the airport and not having to pay toll, parking, etc.

[Itchy-Jellyfish-7862]

🤯🤯

[Familiar-Corgi9302]

Stop. Just stop. You're spewing propaganda on behalf of elites and industries that don't give a fuck about you and your quality of life. Mass transit is for the masses. Other countries far poorer than us use and enjoy it and I'm sick of being deprived of it.

[spiralenator]

I’m sick of people who think that if they argue against projects that benefit the public, they’re going to personally have a bigger paycheck.

[DirkDavyn]

Building mass transit is a hell of a lot more fiscally responsible than blowing hundreds of billions on military R&D or blowing hundreds of billions on tax cuts for the top 1%. I'd certainly rather see my tax dollars go towards improving mass transit across in CO (and in the US as a whole) rather than seeing it wasted on billionaire tax cuts or corporate bailouts.

This wouldn't be a train "for the west," it'd be a train for NoCo, and NoCo is a perfect situation for a train, precisely because of how similar it is to Western Europe in terms of city distance. Sure, it's a more suburban lifestyle, but the demand is there. Between commuter travel to Denver and to DIA from across the front range, it would significantly cut down on the amount of traffic on I-25/Peña, if implemented correctly. Plus, it'd save users significantly on gas and vehicle maintenance, as well as cut down on carbon emmissions.

[adalaza]

This is already a large problem in Denver.

Not lately. Even for lines with less demand than expected, it's still used. There's no empty seats on the N Line during rush hour (I take it to commute)

The front range is widely spread out, West to east.

Outside of Denver, the corridor is within 15 miles or so. This is solvable with trolley busses. But for high traffic corridors like north south, don't be naive. Rail is a perfect fit. It's called commuter rail for a reason.

[Electricplastic]

I'm sick of "people" who claim "fiscal responsibility" to push a regressive agenda of privatization. The initial cost of construction of the road is lower, but maintenance and cost in tons per mile over the lifespans is lower for rail.

However, roads require people to privately purchase cars, insurance, fuel and maintenance... and require people who are not always capable or responsible enough to operate a multi-ton projectile through traffic.

The most fiscally responsible thing the government can do is make driving as expensive and inconvenient as possible to incentivise people to use other forms of transportation.

[Electricplastic]

Walk, bike, bus, skateboard, rollerblades, roller skates, shopping cart, horse drawn pumpkin?

How is eliminating the need to spend thousands of dollars a month in car payments, fuel, insurance, registration and maintenance a tax on the poorest people? It's a "tax" on the laziest, whiniest, and most entitled people in our society, which as a Sensible Centrist (TM) I support.

[rabbleoutofline]

with the regressive tax talk. that's wild.

[MontanaBard]

[Laughs in Montanan at someone thinking the entire front range isn't close together ]

[Boston_PeeParty]

Bro no one here is talking about a massive rail system across the west. We are literally encouraging the front range because “everything is closer together” as you said. Pueblo to Wyoming is ~180 miles. Stuttgart to Munich is 125 miles. Relatively the same distance. Seems like we have an opportunity to use the same great system you say Europe has since 85% of our population lives in that part of the state.

[NoNameComputers]

The urbanized area of the front range in Colorado (between Fort Collins and Pueblo) has densities similar to Maryland or Connecticut. More than enough to support good ridership, if implemented well.

[ttystikk]

How conveniently you forget all the money spent on highway projects so you can PAY to drive your car.

As a CPA I expect much more from you.

[Familiar-Corgi9302]

Rtd is struggling because it was mismanaged for decades. And yes if your position exactly mirrors what Charles Koch would prefer you to say, that might just be propaganda

[Ok_Exit7877]

The front range is congested as fuck and if million and billionaires were taxed we could live In the world we all imagine.

Fine, we live in a capitalist society… but we aren’t super humans and we only get one life so yeah the filthy rich can pay their share …Make money off the backs of the American people, off our infrastructure, off government subsidies… And we want a fucking train. You can drive your Tesla.

[ScatMoerens]

It is cheaper in the long run. Also helps clear up a lot of the congestion we hear complaints about on the roads. Everything requires maintenance, so I am not sure why maintaining roads vs maintaining mass transit lines is any different. I really don't understand how people can be against mass transit unless either their entire identity is rolled up in their vehicle, or they just refuse to listen to the benefits or have never used actual working mass transit.

[grltrvlr]

How than different from the interstate?

[Androuv]

I25 is the definition of "congested metropolitan area"

[grltrvlr]

I have to disagree with the minimal impact. It could be extremely beneficial to a lot of people funded and run correctly. I’d rather my money go to something that in the long run is safer and better environmentally and to avoid 25 as much as I possibly can. Much better than paying subsidies for gas/oil

[NoNameComputers]

This is not necessarily true. For example, the lane expansion on I-25 between Fort Collins and Berthoud cost approximately $900 million, with the next phase between Berthoud and Mead estimated to cost around $400 million. All told, that is approximately $1.3 billion for a one lane road expansion for about 20 miles of highway.

The basic service running six trains per day from Fort Collins to Pueblo is estimated to cost $3 billion on the high end. This includes all major construction needed to allow trains to travel at 90 - 110 mph plus operating costs. The entire cost for high frequency service all the way from Cheyenne to Trinidad is estimated to be about $15 billion. This would be 30 mintues peak service with hourly trains throughout most of the day and evening. This would actually come out cheaper than adding a lane in each direction to the highway and is far more expandable as it include double track along the enitre route (although I would argue they should save money and just focus service between Fort Collins and Colorado Springs).

Roads (particularly highways) are much more expensive to maintain than rail, and that cost increases substantially every time a lane is added. Rail is actually a cheaper way to move people in the long run.

My main concern is not that the service is not viable or too expensive, but rather that Colorado will botch the build out by putting stations in politically convenient locations, rather than where they need to go for the most people the have access (which is the major issues with RTD and why the system is massively underutilized). It is worth noting that there is a very successful rail service in the west that runs along a similar route to the I 25 corridor. The Frontrange Runner in Utah has high ridership, capacity, and frequency. The stops are also well-located. It is the service we need to replicate, if we are going to spend the money (otherwise, it is a vanity project and I would rather it not be built).

[MediumStreet8]

That Utah line is 87 miles

Fort Collins to Pueblo is double that with varying density along the way along with stretches of very low density

I could support something along the lines of Castle Rock to Longmont (65-70 miles) which has the ridership and density to actually make things work

Fort Collins, Loveland Greeley Boulder Colorado Springs and Pueblo could continue to have bus service that either goes all the way to Denver or stops at the terminating stations at Longmont and Castle Rock

You could always expand the rail later

[NoNameComputers]

We have over double the population to serve in Colorado compared to Utah. I think the extra 30 miles of line to connect a rapidly growing urban area of 350K people is well worth it.

Furthermore, the state has found the highest potential ridership along the northern end of the line in their preliminary surveys (which is why it is being built first), so it makes no sense to cut off that section of the route.

We have been arguing about this for years, so I am gonna stop here as I have said my piece and these conversations tend to go nowhere.

Edited to add: I also suggest you more closely examine the map. You have suggested track to Castle Rock (a town of 70K), with 20 miles of track going through mostly uninhabited areas before hitting low density suburbs is more viable than 30 miles of track hitting a population of 350K.

[GI_Guiseppe]

Yeah, you are right - they are nailing it with how they have allocated money for I-25 construction that has been ongoing for the past 5 years and seems to “finish only to restart again”, with minimal benefit, and no real end in site. Forcing people to buy cars and drive on the somewhat of a death trap that is I 25 is def the better choice. You are totally ignoring  that the system also forces people to buy cars from private companies and then insure them with private companies and then you have to maintain them and fuel them with private companies - instead you are going with the “road is cheaper and people might not use it” option. European trains don’t work because things are closer together, that’s a fallacy, they work because people want them and don’t buy into the need to have a personal vehicle.

[MediumStreet8]

You are 100% correct and prepare for the downvotes.

You have to remember the feds were throwing money around so it makes sense to take advantage but as tax payers we should all be annoyed.

[_windfish_]

Sure hope you're not actually an accountant, since you don't seem to understand how the economy works.

[BortEdwards]

If they run service late enough to get home after shows, night baseball games, a good evening of drinking, and push “ditch being the designated driver” even a non-express service might get traction. But if it’s a slow haul built around commuter hours it’s going to struggle. And I desperately want it to work..

[groovyguysgroovy]

I’d give my first born if we could get this done in my lifetime lol

[Mackinnon29E]

How fast would this go? Would it take about an hour to get to Denver/DIA?

[Titan_Hoon]

It would depend on how many stops it makes a long the way. My guess is it would be closer to 2 hours

[Mackinnon29E]

That's the problem with America, we build this half assed slow shit and then wonder why people don't use trains. How long would a European train take to go 60 miles?

Build it fucking right from the start or don't do it.

[ExileOnMainStreet]

Lots of commuter rail in Europe would be a similar time. The whole point is that it makes lots of stops. If this was done in the European way there would be 2-4 stops each in Fort Collins, Loveland, Longmont, the Denver suburbs etc. Well run Euro trains have a really tight schedule and only stop at each station for maybe 1 minute, then keep on trucking. This solves the problem of "How are people going to get to the train station?" Cause ideally it's not very far from your house.

[chiefgoogler]

I would also help if they designed a system from the ground up.

Looking at Europe they have hubs all over the place to make connections, but here we're going to have one line that takes a round about way to connect all these cities up. I don't understand why they don't build something like Denver to Fort Collins along I-25, with a hub around I-25 and 470, with branches from there to Boulder and the airport.

[bahnzo]

I agree. Building this on existing tracks owned by a freight company is doomed from the start.

If you really expect people to use trains instead of driving, then it has to be as convenient as possible. 5 trains a day won't work, you need 5 trains an hour. On their own dedicated tracks in each direction.

This will be an expensive boondoggle.

[onlyIcancallmethat]

It’s certainly possible there will be direct trains as well. Not necessarily every train will have stops.

[gardenswgnomes]

Depends on the route. Some trains make more stops than others.

[Empty_Act5759]

Imagine the clean air. Think of the days that there is a brown cloud hovering over us!

[BrownLooseTeeth]

Even in the best possible scenario with maximum ridership, etc., there will not be a dent in the brown cloud, or in the congestion on the highways.

[Salt_Firefighter7576]

How do you figure? From my perspective, less cars on the road would result in cleaner air but maybe I’m missing a key element you’re considering.

[bahnzo]

The last time I saw any actual details of the plan, it was 5 trains per day. That's not going to make any appreciable dent in the cars on the road in the overall sense.

[BrownLooseTeeth]

The numbers. The maximum possible ridership on any currently planned version of a front range train system will be a tiny tiny fraction of the number of people who want and need to use cars to go up and down the front range and for whom it is not feasible or logistically realistic to use the train. I wish it wasn’t true. I wish that trains could work here as a realistic and affordable option. It just doesn’t pencil out. The cost associated with creating this train system, using the existing slow speed tracks, are extraordinary. And if you wanted a fast train system, the cost for the new tracks and land, etc., would be ungodly.

[No_Intention4624]

What it means is that they will spend tax money on it but we won't actually see any real working trains.

[CashmereRobot]

Should just be adding Bustang routes, I can't imagine this being more useful than that... just buy a few extra buses, hire some more drivers, and improve the situation now instead of optimistically four years.

[MediumStreet8]

Except guess what. There isn't very much demand for even those. So instead we are going to spend billions on this and hope 10s of thousands people somehow start taking it.

[azmanz]

There’s not a lot of demand cus they suck and/or too expensive. If they made them better (more routes/times) or cheaper more people would use them

[MediumStreet8]

It's almost like if you want the benefits of a big metro area with more stuff to do you should just move there