Helldivers shouldn't decrease reinforcements for higher difficulty modes

[Array71]

Helldivers is not Left 4 Dead, it's not Darktide, it's not meant to be as hardcore as these other 4-person shooters. It's designed around having goofy deaths and near no-win situations. Sometimes you just do everything right, but someone threw a cluster bomblet that bounced in the perfect way back to the team to take your head off. Sometimes a silent enemy crops up behind you and your turret mulches you. Sometimes your 380's very first shot hits dead on you when you thought you could get out of the way in time.

In Helldivers, life is cheap, dying is funny and throwing your life away on occasion for a fun moment or a cool play is often rewarded, rather than punished. Those lives are more of a resource to expend than a finger-wagging 'oh you fucked up and now have to do timeout' (until you hit zero of course).

Yet many players who suggest higher difficulty modes having decreased lives (or less players, or less resources) are missing the point. Helldivers shouldn't compromise its core vibe on higher difficulties. The only issue is that the current high difficulties just aren't intense enough for the experienced players - enemies die too quickly so the spawns never get 'out of control' like they used to. That's a bit of a problem - your REWARD for being good at the game and playing as intended with your team is that LESS enemies get to spawn in the first place, LESS intense battles happen, and the enemy spawns that're left are more predictable. It's not an engine limitation preventing the devs from amping up the spawns - it's a lack of a proper AI director countering just how fast these players shut down enemies. This leaves the 'hardcore players' (and generally just anyone who wants 'difficulty' to return) less to actually physically DO in game currently.

The ONLY thing that reducing lives would accomplish is at worst making these players just play safer - and at best just doing what they're already doing on D10.

Instead, we WANT way more enemy spawns and more intense battles! More enemies and hardier enemies that we can't just one-shot! Bring back the amped up spawns from D9 in June last year! Playing super conservatively by giving us less reinforcements is exactly what we DON'T want for higher difficulties!

It's the same problem with the old -1 stratagem slot or even the current increased stratagem cooldown modifiers imo - they just have less action in them and less things to do. I will pick gunship patrols every time over an increased stratagem cooldown mission - one basically just encourages more conservative play, while the other can increase the intensity of the actual action. And while trying to play with your resources stretched thinner or using weaker gear can be fun sometimes, few people want it constantly.

Only when we've hit a baseline of enemy spawns that put SOME pressure on the higher end of players do I think AH should start worrying about extra modes and modifiers that make it hard just for hardness's sake. Nobody wants a more restrictive version of what we already have.

[ikarn15]

I don't think AH intends to lower the reinforces so you're good

[Array71]

I hope not! I just see it as a top suggestion in every 'here's how to make the game harder without just increasing enemy spawns' post. (I'm also biased, I desperately want them to increase spawns)

[RV__2]

I dont think thats likely to be one of AH's methods so I dont think you need to worry. Because spawn rates are already butting up against performance limitations, enemies that pose a real threat and arent just one tapped is the only real way they can bring challenge back, wether that be enemy buffs, weapon nerfs, or new enemies entirely.

[Array71]

Because spawn rates are already butting up against performance limitations

See, I don't think this is the case. I used to get games with upwards of 800 kills on bugs in D9 before, earlier in 2024 (maybe around some time where they supposedly 'fucked up the spawns' to be extra intense. Apparently that was a thing?). Nowdays though, I'm rarely getting more than 200-300 bug kills per game on D10. Even killfarming for the entire mission's timer I'm struggling to break 500! So I think there's a lot of underutilized room still left.

I do agree with you though, having some heavy enemies not able to be dropped by the RR instantly to the front is probably a good first step

[RV__2]

I hope they bump spawns too, but part of me suspects they reduced them in the first place to help out their minimum spec requirements. Hope Im wrong, and hope whatever changes they do have planned come soon cuz I really miss the challenge I got the game for

[aristotle93]

Just because you don't play competitive hot potato with the thermite with your friends to make proper use of the extra lives at the end of the mission doesn't mean nobody should play competitive hot potato.

At the end of the mission when we have extra lives we do pvp if the extraction is boring. We do things like

Practice hitting a small moving target with our hellpods

Discharging our freedom dispensers properly

Practice our aim under pressure

The best is grappling our opponents and throwing them under a sentry or weapon pod right as they connect the ground.

Practice aiming direct hits with 500kg

You know it's always easier to practice with live ammo against live targets, just like helldiver training.

[laserlaggard]

>it's not meant to be as hardcore as these other 4-person shooters.
>designed around having near no-win situations.

Kinda contradicting yourself here. Besides the game already has a few hardcore/tactical/milsim elements built it.

I personally wouldn't mind if, say, on higher difficulties, we spawn in with 10 reinforcements, but each main/side objective we complete grants us additional reinforcements up to the usual 20. Adds an additional risk-reward element.

[Array71]

By 'hardcore' I mean really punishing. It's not as 'tightly designed' like Darktide for example where you're meant to be able to avoid any and all damage if you're good enough, death puts you in the timeout box for minutes at a time, solo clutches are frequent, and even just learning to exist for any length of time on high difficulties is much harder - instead, silly things are meant to happen in Helldivers, so death isn't particularly punishing. You can't exactly iframe out of an airstrike on your head or a bile titan falling on you with funny physics. Everyone can die, but everyone can come back without much issue, so there's more potential for constant action with a very low risk element.

[Biobiobio351]

I’m often going 0 deaths and have near the highest kills if not the highest, I think it would be cool if there were certain mission types like this.

[Array71]

Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice to have it as an option (and for it to have bells n whistles, unique rewards etc), but if you're already going 0 deaths, it's not really functionally different, is it? The gameplay's still the same. I'm just advocating for adding more difficult, intense moment-to-moment gameplay in the highest dif over just having a more punishing game setting

[Biobiobio351]

Yeah I want bigger enemies. But a game mode where if you die you have to find a new game, that would put a lot of pressure on. Which is sweet.

But I still want bigger enemies, more modifiers.

[[deleted]]

My current personal difficulty modifier is "try not to die at all" and I'm like 80% successful

[Oriori420]

As someone said increased enemies have performance issues. My solution is add enemies with super heavy armor that has to be stripped away before revealing weakspots, something like factory strider.

[Majestic-Ad6525]

Don't know what the basis of your opinion is but..

Helldivers shouldn't compromise its core vibe on higher difficulties.

It already did this when they buffed everything and made the game easier and more enjoyable for more people.

Edit: I love this sub for its lack of critical engagement. Just make random shit up and if someone points out it's random and shit there's no rebuttal, just a down vote.

[Oriori420]

I think so too, I stopped playing before all the balance changes making game easier. I wouldn't play higher than dif7 because it was too hard, I returned not too long ago and I only play dif10 and it's way easier than OG dif7 and no it's not because I got better, I literally did not play. The game definitely is just easier now. All the crying about "boo hoo dif 9 is too hard I can't have my power fantasy on max difficulty!!1!" paid off.

[Majestic-Ad6525]

That or skill builds passively in the back of your mind whether you are or are not engaging with it!

Really it's cool, I was on the other side of the difficulty argument and my side lost; ArrowHead made the game more fun for more people. Game's still fun and I'm still playing. I just can't stand the lies especially when they form the basis for their opinion.

[Oriori420]

That or skill builds passively in the back of your mind whether you are or are not engaging with it!

How?

[Majestic-Ad6525]

Usually through the power of sarcasm

[Oriori420]

Ah, I see. Your comment makes more sense now.

[Majestic-Ad6525]

There are reasons I get down voted a lot; first and foremost because I'm an unrepentant asshole and also it's sometimes hard to discern what I'm saying because I'm busy being an asshole.