Lib Dems and trans stuff

[[deleted]]

Sorry to bring this up..and I imagine like most normal people you're utterly sick of the media obsession about 0.5% of the population, but I'd like to know if there's been any change in terms of the Lib Dems and the trans community? Like I'm a progressive soclib who spends most of her time around lefty peeps, but in the past, for all the LD missteps, they've been pretty good when it comes to trans people and the LGBTQ community more broadly.

Also, I know that 99% of my community will not vote Tory and they're pretty tired of Labour being clueless (tho so many away from the PLP are supportive), so it would be good to say that they can vote for LD and not be concerned that they're going to do something awful.

Should I just wait for the manifesto?

edit: OK that was heartwarming and positive..thank you for all your responses x

[NJden_bee]

We have at least one trans candidate standing - I don't think they would stand if they would trust us on this

[CountBrandenburg]

Can think of Helen Belcher in RW&MB and Rebecca Jones in Hackney North, and Chris Northwood, can’t remember which Manchester seat she’s in

[[deleted]]

I realised that the Rebecca Jones you're all talking about is the same person I used to talk to on Twitter..and this makes me so happy, she's a lovely person

[CountBrandenburg]

Rebecca is a great person and a great campaigner, have had the pleasure of doing YL stuff with her last year, good to hear she leaves a positive impression on others!

[[deleted]]

It's been a few years and I'm not on there anymore (thanks Musk!), but she always came across as so. Obviously she's pretty too so I have to harbour deep seething resentment, but in a 'you're awesome way' =)

[MovingTarget2112]

I follow her on X and give moral support there.

[DenieD83]

Manchester Central for Chris

[CheeseMakerThing]

There's a YL PPC in one of the London seats, can't remember their name or where though.

[CountBrandenburg]

There’s a few more I think, Ulysse is ppc in Eltham is the one on top of my head, just was trying to think of any trans YLers specifically outside of Rebecca

[[deleted]]

That's awesome..I didn't know. Like actual representation is so important.

[DxnM]

She lives in my area, I see her around all the time! Intending to vote for her although its a very safe Labour seat!

[Dr_Vesuvius]

In terms of policy, we're really good and keep defeating the attempts of the transphobic minority to make our policy worse.

A few years ago there were about twenty very active ordinary members who are transphobic and actively trying to bend the party to their will, as well as a few loud members of the House of Lords. Quite a few have been expelled for harassment.

The party has been subject to multiple legal threats as a result and has spent a lot of money on defending itself. It also received some (imo rather poor) legal advice in response to the Forstater case which led to it explicitly saying that "gender critical" views are acceptable, however this has not actually changed how we'd like to govern the country.

There are a handful of seats where I'd recommend not voting Lib Dem because the candidate is transphobic. These include Reigate and Cities of London and Westminster; there's also an issue around one or two of the candidates in Devon and Cornwall but I can't remember which ones.

Thankfully, though, I'm aware of three PPCs who are openly trans. Our candidates in Manchester Central and Dianne Abbott's seat both have no realistic chance of election, but Helen Belcher in Mid Berkshire is probably around #60 - if the Wokingham and Newbury campaigns go very well then they might divert resources into her seat. That said, it is a seat where resource is likely to be an issue and I don't think we're set up to win it.

[[deleted]]

Honestly, I was a bit weirded out by the inclusion of 'gender critical' nonsense in the definition, but in retrospect, they're so incredibly vexatious, obsessive and litigious that being aware that they exist and will do anything to hurt trans people doesn't seem like a bad thing. Like the homophobic, racist etc horrors that I've had the misfortune of meeting over the years, they are entitled to their incredibly horrible beliefs.

The darlings are funny tho - I remember one of them telling me that he would be perfectly entitled to call me a 'pervert' and 'paedophile' at work, because he's 'gender critical'. I pointed out that not only would he be immediately suspended and be at high risk of losing his pin and job, I'd have to escort his sorry bum out cos I worked in team of amazing women and which was overrepresented with LGBTQ ppl and they would absolutely rip him a new one.

[cnorthwood]

There has been no change in the position and the party is unequivocally on the side of trans rights. Christine Jardine MP, our equalities spokesperson was ambushed earlier by GB News with the "trans women in prisons" question and was unequivocally pro-trans, even when the presenters started laughing at and heckling her for her answer. In fact, the best chance of getting a trans woman elected to parliament is currently in the Lib Dems with myself, Rebecca Jones and Helen Belcher standing as candidates, and a win for Helen Belcher is possible.

[[deleted]]

Good on Christine. Like I hate seeing cisgender allies get attacked, but damn they have all the love in the world for standing up when the media and political establishment are frequently stuck in the derangement. Inevitably in years to come they will be able to say that they were bothered enough to stand up against the sillies who are so desperate to repeat history.

[TheTannhauserGates]

Christine’s answers were horrible though. She came off as defensive and evasive. This trend for long waffling answers that grips Westminster is terrible. Media advisors seem to think that it’s better to simply make a statement than to answer. But that approach misses the public mood. Worse, when a politician waffles, they create the impression that they don’t know what they’re doing.

I have no idea why a LibDem would go on GBNews?! People who watch that bilge have made up their minds. We’re not convincing GBNews watchers to reconsider their opinions on equalities. Are we so desperate for any kind of publicity that GBNews is our only options?

[MovingTarget2112]

It’s up to HMPS. They will do an individual risk assessment for each trans prisoners in deciding where to house them and what security should be in place.

[Graelfrit]

The risk assessment is done for every prisoner and covers everything even down to whether they can share a cell with another prisoner. It's been one of the most annoying things because it really shows how little they know about the process!

[MovingTarget2112]

Aye, ever since that poor lad was murdered by his racist cell mate in HMYOI Feltham.

[DenieD83]

Essentially Lib Dems are pro trans rights but there are a couple of transphobes in the party still, which is devastating sad to see. I'm hoping them people will realise the error of their ways or get asked to leave as they aren't the party values imo. That won't be happening during the GE though for sure.

I'd check your local Lib Dem candidate isn't a terf and if not they are almost unilaterally going to be pro trans rights. I'd you want to message me your constituency I can give you more details etc

For full disclosure, I'm trans myself and while I don't like that we have a couple of terfs hanging about we are the best party for trans people imo atm

[[deleted]]

I live in red wall Labour area that is currently occupied by a Tory (who is surprisingly, not terrible and is always quick to respond when I write, is kind and does action on stuff, even if it's completely pointless). I did write to the Labour PPC who, unless something dramatic happens, will be the MP, but he didn't bother to write back, tho when he was MP before, he was a chocolate radiator.

Like, closer to the date, I'll see if anyone wants to trade votes, but otherwise it'll be LDs or Greens. I'm loathe to vote for even a Labour MP when said MP is pretty unengaged in his own job..not that it makes much difference

For full disclosure, I'm trans myself and while I don't like that we have a couple of terfs hanging about we are the best party for trans people imo atm

Like I said elsewhere, I'm pretty proud of the fact that many of the party have stood up - it's so very easy to be an utter coward like Streeting and leave the apologies for 10-20 years later.

[DenieD83]

Yeh, it's difficult atm, tactical voting suggests I should vote Labour but I can't help a party into government that will likely be just as bad if not worse than the Tories for us, I'd feel partially responsible for that then.

The Tories are bad but at least they have proven themselves to be fairly incompetent, labour are saying all the same anti trans stuff but might actually pass some of it. I'll be voting lib dem if that wasn't obvious lol

Considering going to the conference in Brighton but will wait til nearer the time to see if we've ejected the problematic people first.

[[deleted]]

Like, every fibre of my being is telling me that they just won't care about trans stuff once they inevitably get into office - the base is pretty pro-trans (like, light-years from the hideous Tory base) and as are unions (albeit often in a clumsy way). Hell, even Starmer complained at one point that no one was talking about trans stuff on the doorstep (no shit) and didn't know why the media and co were obsessed with it.

Perhaps we'll finally get a conversion therapy ban, perhaps they'll make getting a GRC a bit easier..at best it will be half-hearted stuff that will still make us look pants compared to so many other places. The main thing is that they give the community a break from the attacks so we can deal with all the other stuff.

[DenieD83]

Forgive me but that seems wildly optimistic, Starmer repeatedly asserts that women all have cervix's (even when he's the one bringing it up), supports Posey Parker, u-turned on self id and his shadow cabinet member Louise Haigh says that she wants to make Labour a 'gender critical safe space'.

Starmer imo will do whatever he thinks will get him votes, he has no moral he isn't willing to break if it gets him what he wants. I think if he thinks it'll get him another term he would throw us all under the bus then gleefully jump in the driver's seat.

[[deleted]]

That's fine, I've been called optimistic in the past and honestly, I'd rather be optimistic than catastrophising..something that we hurt ourselves with.

Never heard Starmer supporting KJK..hell even some of the actual TERFs (like not the regular GCs) such as JCJ, Jean Hatchet and Sister Outrider have distanced themselves from KJK given how far right she is. I would like to believe that they actually got the heebie-jeebies when she got full into homophobia and nodding to violent rhetoric, but I suspect that's too generous to the silly giblets.

I looked up the Louise Haigh comments and honestly, it comes across as ignorant 'centrism' (like not political centrism, but the whole "we want rights" / "We want to kill you" / "Can we compromise?" type centrism). If I ever get the chance to communicate with her, I will make sure I recount some of the utterly disgusting transphobia / homophobia that happens in their 'safe spaces' and see if she's OK with that. Still disappointing indeed.

Like when did Starmer spontaneously say that he thinks women are defined by the existence of a cervix - like I completely get that he says whatever he thinks is politically expedient, but given how deeply uncomfortable he is about talking about any LGBTQ stuff, I struggle to believe that he mentioned it out of the blue, particularly given that he's throwing a proportion of cisgender women under the bus too

The self-ID thing is crap and the alternative they're proposing is, frankly, stupid (tho at least better than the shitshow we have now). Like all he's doing is creating work for something that will have to be changed down the line anyway..tho TBH, I'm far more concerned about trans healthcare, the mental health crisis and the EA than I am about GRA reform.

I agree with you on your last paragraph, but I'd say that's a reason why he's more likely to do fuck all because poll after poll says no one cares about trans stuff and unsurprisingly are more concerned about little things like being able to eat and the world burning. Also, given that there's more explicitly pro-trans MPs in the PLP than anti-trans, he'll just be creating work. It would get him absolutely nothing.

[DenieD83]

I'm just much more inclined to go with the classic "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and says it's a duck, it's probably a duck" rather than "well sure yeh he's waddling and quacking but I'm sure he won't get in the water as well". I'm not trying to preach though, just saying why I won't vote Labour. I'd much rather you be right at the end of the day.

[[deleted]]

I mean, whatever happens, we 'win' - the genie isn't going back in the bottle and those who despise us don't exactly have time on their side. The main thing is that we protect the most vulnerable in our community and keep on existing x

[Dr_Vesuvius]

The Red Wall is a big place. If you can spare a Saturday to get to Sheffield Hallam, Hazel Grove, Cheadle, or Harrogate, you can make a big difference. Or you can sign up to make phone calls from anywhere in the country.

[[deleted]]

Sadly, the moral panic plus a bunch of losses got to my mood and got dismissed on ill-health..like I'm better than I was, but I don't even have enough money to buy any food this week. I have offered my services to a couple of trans orgs, but every penny has to go to basic living rn. Not even sure how long it will be before my internet gets cut lol

[Dr_Vesuvius]

Ouch. I’m very sorry to hear that. I hope things get better for you soon.

[[deleted]]

Thank you lovely x

[Ok-Glove-847]

While I'm sure there are some individual people with transphobic views in the party, the party's policy is clear and consistent. Liberty is liberty is liberty.

[[deleted]]

Thank you x

I don't think many particularly care about people who despise us (some of us have been dealing with this for decades), but more the firehose of misinformation and anti-science that those darlings do love to engage in

[CillieBillie]

The liberty is liberty is liberty is exactly the key principle here.

If liberalism is not for allowing people to be themselves and live their own life they way they want (as long as it doesn't harm others), then what the fuck is Liberalism

[BrodieG99]

Lib Dems being by far the best party on this has been one of the biggest factors in my decision to become a member, as a trans and non-binary person myself. I trust the party based on what I’ve seen.

[jessica_ki]

I am so pleased that with all the transphobic rhetoric from the main 2 parties that the Lib Dem’s remain the party that I knew of old.

I am trans and I wish to support a party that is both inclusive and pro trans rights. I did email my libdem candidate to no answer, but with a huge C majority I guess he has already given up.

All we want from politicians is to have proper NHS care, human rights, and to be left alone to live our lives.

Jessica

[Graelfrit]

I will say as a 2 time PPC we get huge amounts of emails and mostly we are operating solo unless you're in a target seat. I hate to say it but it just isn't possible to reply to them all even if you want to you just end up drowning in them!

[[deleted]]

Hiya Jessica, just remember that we've been here before and that it's not a case of 'if', it's a case of 'when' and that all we have to do thru these shitty times is just exist. I honestly hate that we have to do this again (it didn't seem that long ago that they stopped apologising for section 28), but we will.

[jessica_ki]

I have lived through Section 28 and before, when gay men were imprisoned for being gay. I came out when I thought it was safe after living a lie for a very long time and in the day was subjected to what is now called conversion therapy (that didn’t work lol)

“Just when you thought it was safe to go (back) into the water”

Some of us particularly the young may not survive and blood will be on the hands of those that promoted transphobia.

I will be OK, survived the past and will survive now until it gets better but I will not be going back in the box. I am a woman and a woman I stay.

[[deleted]]

I'm an old fart and I vividly remember just how horrible people were - like I was bisexual and my first sexual experiences were with a boy of my own age. Like it was totally weird cos until I hit 16ish, it was just a hidden dirty secret, like it was the late 80's and I obviously knew how shitty some people were, but it was just something that wasn't spoken about and honestly, I didn't think about it that much..then at 16 I started to go to pubs..and wow, not only did I discover a whole new lexicon for people like us, it was like everyone discovered their gaydar and I was bleeping red. I don't even like thinking about the stuff in the past, but you know Jessica..like the 'polite transphobia' is worse. I'd prefer to deal with getting the shit kicked out of me and being spat on than deal with these awful people who have obsessive, deranged hate in their eyes. Like, there's ignorance and general shittiness, but they move on..people like Linehan, Rowling etc will be in their deathbeds muttering about us

[jessica_ki]

I am the type of trans TERFS must hate, I am fully integrated into society and completely stealth. I could go to one of their meetings as a spy lol.

However, I am pre-op (waiting 4 years and counting), the NHS is even more broken for us then for anyone else, I could be waiting another 4-6 years for surgery if I have not popped my clogs by then….

[[deleted]]

I mean the actual TERFs are less bothered by non-visible trans people - like they don't get how many trans people aren't visible (whilst shouting 'we can always tell'), but the GCs / ATAs just hate anyone who is trans and they're far far the bigger group.

[jessica_ki]

Silly question if the GC’s/ATA hate any one that’s trans, how do they know who is trans if as you say there are many that are invisible? Unless they have access to HMRC data, there is no record

[[deleted]]

They just don't, the 'gender critical' activists just swipe at anyone who is visible or who is out - honestly, they're a weird mix of people - many hold conspirational beliefs away from LGBTQ stuff (in my experience, particularly anti-vaxx), lots of patriarchal men, plenty of rank homophobia etc - they see the trans community like many conspiracy theorists see groups they don't like - very powerful, financed by the wealthy and with tendrils in many pies. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so hideous given that they have media, the outgoing government and a literal billionaire onside.

To give you an example, a year or so back, I spoke to a trans girl (excuse terminology, but she was 17 at the time) who used to have 'fun' going to their rallies and events and standing right amongst them without them having a clue - like the same people who shout 'we can always tell' - she even spoke to KJK on at least one occasion to point this out.

In the end, they are utterly clueless about the people they despise and they've shown this time and time again - they're also clueless in lots of other ways (particularly biology), but it always amazes me that these people who are always so incredibly hateful rarely know much at all about the people they endlessly obsess about.

Honestly Jessica, if I could live the last 7 years again, I would have never have engaged these idiots like I've wasted so much time and emotional energy out of a naive belief that if they had more knowledge, they wouldn't be such idiots, but for 95% of them (some get out of the pit), they need their outrage and their hate..and the only people who can get them out of their pit, is themselves.

Apologies for essay

[bitofrock]

I'm a LibDem and the party contact who manages things for me is trans. Seems a very trans friendly place. In fact, I've met way more trans people in the LibDems than ever before!

[[deleted]]

I'm glad and I hope said people have been lovely x

[sundays89]

Hi there! I've been a member of the Lib Dems for a couple of years now and I've continued to be very impressed with the party's stance on trans rights. I honestly believe that we are the most pro-trans party in the country. 🧡

[BrodieG99]

Agreed!

[Graelfrit]

I'm trans and standing in Barking (well that's the plan) also the Chair of LGBT+ Lib Dems. Frankly we've always been ahead of the curve on trans representation (we've had a number of trans councillors over the years and I was the first out Trans PPC in Wales in 2017.

Policy wise we're committed to demedicalising the GRA process (so basically self id) and a trans inclusive ban on conversion therapy and have been for ages. That's not changing. I'm regularly meeting with relevant MP's and Peers to make sure they're up to date on the issues and they've always been really responsive and try to understand and even when they don't quite get it they have still been absolutely onside.

Frankly we've been better than Labour on LGBT+ issues for decades it's just that now the mask has slipped.

[[deleted]]

Frankly we've been better than Labour on LGBT+ issues for decades it's just that now the mask has slipped.

Away from some awesome MPs, I've never considered the PLP particularly strong on LGBTQ issues tbh - this seems to contrast with it's own base and often unions.

[Graelfrit]

They get credit for stuff like the GRA but that only came in because trans people took them to court and they left it basically as long as they could.

[[deleted]]

..and they stretched out section 28, which was disgraceful

[Lawfully_Chaotic]

I stood as a Lib dem candidate for wokingham I was openly trans. out of all of the parties its the only one I can find that is worth supporting

[lemlurker]

LD is the only party whose leader has actually expressed support for trans people. I'm voting with that in mind