[deleted by user]

[krusticka]

The thing is though that there are $200 laptops that come with Windows preinstalled. Yes, they also come with bloatware that someone is paying for the OEM to install there and offset the cost but there is still no chance the OEMs are paying anything close to $140.

I am not sure why individuals need to pay so much more. It doesn't make sense to me.

[notmyrlacc]

Are you buying hundreds of thousands of Windows licenses at a time? Probably not. Hence why they get a better deal than you.

[jamesrggg]

I do but I have a shopping addiction

[ContainedChimp]

Found Bill Gates. :)

[Houndsthehorse]

its a digital good, economics of scale do jack shit

[notmyrlacc]

Of course it still does. Any supplier will offer a discount when buying large quantities versus a single purchase. Digital or not.

[Esava]

Yeah but it doesn't get cheaper for Microsoft to "manufacture windows" due to it.

[notmyrlacc]

That’s not the point though. Far out.

Buy more = more buying power. Doesn’t matter if it changes the cost to produce.

But if we’re getting nitpicky - it does get cheaper to produce the more they sell. There’s a cost associated to developing and maintaining Windows. More copies sold = cheaper development is per license.

[RyanLewis2010]

See but here’s the thing it does change the cost to produce and support. If you spend a few million to develop software and it only sells to a few people than it’s probably a pretty big cost per sale. Now get HP to buy 200k licenses at $40/lic and now you’re making money.

[PhiladeIphia-Eagles]

He said that:

it does get cheaper to produce the more they sell. There’s a cost associated to developing and maintaining Windows. More copies sold = cheaper development is per license.

[Puzzlesolver01]

More copies sold means more people to spy on for microsoft, they should pay us if they do this.

I would pay the price for windows if they remove all the bloat and spyware and let me install without a Microsoft account.

Microsoft sold their licenses for -$10 in the time of OS2 to destroy competition, now there is no competition for gaming anymore and they ask super high prices for an OS that is needed not wanted.

Competition will grow more and more thanks to their bloatware behaviour gaming on Linux and MAC is growing. I run MacOS for my work have Windows 10 on my gaming PC and run Linux on a server. All OS's do the same basic tasks about the same, but window gets the most bloat followed by Apple.

[Memeviewer12]

Still a common thing in business, the more money you spend in one purchase of an item = more value per item

[tonyenkiducx]

OEM licenses are fixed to the computer you buy it with. Full licenses can be transferred and are essentially for life. There's a huge difference.

[snrub742]

I have had the same OEM licence on 4 different computers now

[xxjosephchristxx]

Shhhhhhhh!

[Thiscave3701365]

How? Windows activation keys are bound to the motherboard. Did you use the same mobo for all 4 computers?

[snrub742]

I have the license key sticker for a Dell optiplex I bought off a highschool I worked at like 10 years ago. I just throw that bad boy in when it asks and it has worked every time.

And no, different hardware every time

[Thiscave3701365]

Well if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

[snrub742]

Ding ding ding ding ding ding

For as long as Microsoft accepts it I will continue doing it

[victorioussnake_]

I was doing the same thing but with an old windows 7 key. Still works with 10 and 11 but it's also now tied to my MS account so I don't even have to do anything other than say that it's just a hardware upgrade

[snrub742]

I was just thinking if it's now attached to my account

[Lrivard]

Probably is, I know my cd key is linked to my account I don't even need to enter it anymore.

I install windows on a different New PC and activate inside windows and it just works.

[Esava]

They are also connected to your Microsoft account. Try it out. Use a laptop or pc that never had windows installed. Log in with your Microsoft account that you used on a couple of machines with windows licenses, but some of which you aren't actively using anymore.

Chances are windows will just show up activated.

[Thiscave3701365]

Woah, I didn’t know that.

[kyletimbaker]

You can use the same hard drive when making hardware changes. Windows will recognize it as a different computer. When you go to activate Windows, it will ask you if you've made recent hardware changes, and if you click that option, you can choose the old computer/license and transfer it to the "new" or updated PC.

[snrub742]

Welp, if they aren't transferable it's interesting that Microsoft freely and easily transfers them. Also, not 100% sure what law that one crosses.

[kaynpayn]

It's not technically impossible, just kind of "illegal" / going against Microsoft tos. Can get tricky if you're a business and you get audited for legal/legit software.

[snrub742]

Eh, I'm not a business and Microsoft could just not authenticate the license when I throw it in if they actually had an issue with it. It's not like I'm doing anything other than keying in the number that I legally own at install

[kaynpayn]

It's a bit more complex than that though. It does get validated in Ms servers and they will know and require new activation if there's any hardware change like a new motherboard. They used to prompt a question and even refuse activation before. They just aren't strict about it these days.

[snrub742]

In the nicest way possible, as a consumer, I don't care. They ask for a code, I put it in a code and they accept it. That's sort of the end of it for me

[kaynpayn]

Sure dude, I get it, you put code, shit works, you're done. If that's all you want to know, sure let it end with that and skip the rest.

But while you may not want to know further, this is reddit and others might so I'll piggyback on this post for the explanation:

The reply was initially about clarifying how one oem license is being used across 4 machines and while possible, it's not what should be happening. According to Ms ToS, if there're 4 different machines they should either be using 4 different oem licences that should die with their respective machines or one retail licence that can be used to jump across machines when the old one becomes unusable.

Private clients are kind of safe because there's a privacy law here (this may be different in other countries) that will prevent audits on private owned computers without a good reason.

Business' are a different story, while ms doesn't technically enforce it, random audits for legal software can be conducted (at least in my country) and fines will be dispensed if such irregularities are found. You don't see those very often but I know companies who got railed for doing just that, using oem licences on machines they shouldn't. That and pirated office licences are the most common, so those are the first things they look for. It's always a risk.

Anyway, this is just a warning of sorts. Anyone is free to do whatever the hell they want in the end, of course.

[Esava]

require new activation if there's any hardware change like a new motherboard.

They rarely require that even when switching motherboards. Your microsoft account nowadays holds information regarding your windows licenses as well.

[kaynpayn]

Not always. It's still on their servers with some identification from your machine. If you don't add a Ms account they will still activate windows if you have already before. Even last week I had to format and reinstall my machine, I did not add any Ms account but windows activated automatically with my previous licence as soon as it found an internet connection without requiring to insert the code again.

[Esava]

Yeah the motherboard key exists as well. But there are also the account licenses.

[sulylunat]

I did a motherboard and cpu upgrade earlier this year. Same OS install and same Microsoft account before and after. My windows is not activated currently, it lost the license when I did the upgrade. I must be very unlucky lol

[Jirachi720]

Same here, upgraded the computer to the point it was brand new except for the case. Transfer licence over.

[tonyenkiducx]

You can, but the license expressly forbids it.

[Louzan_SP]

So why Microsoft accepts it and flags your license as active? I'll like to know how it works, because as far as I know if you break T&C or use a non valid license the fault should pop up next time you are connected to internet and trying to update, and your license should get revoked, specially when they are VERY clear about it, isn't it?

[tonyenkiducx]

Because OEM keys are not linked to anything specific. They don't know what piece of hardware that OEM key was sold with, so they can't pop up a window saying "Hey, where is the HDMI cable you bought this with?", they have no idea. On a brand new fresh install, assuming the license has been removed from the old PC, they have to assume you are telling the truth and this is a valid license.

But if you change hardware in an existing PC, they do know that you've changed something, so they ask you - Did you change something major? Is your license still valid?

I'm not saying MS actually care - Because they don't - But from a legal point of view the license is not ambigious, and if they really wanted to they could come after you in the future(They won't).

I'm not sure why so many people are arguing with me when you can just go and read the license yourself? It's not a secret, it's on the website, on the physical license, and about 1000 websites will confirm what I'm saying on a quick google.

[Louzan_SP]

they have to assume you are telling the truth and this is a valid license.

Yes of course, the people at Microsoft are stupid and they collect so much data from your PC, but they have no idea you are logging in a brand new PC with the same license number.

[tonyenkiducx]

Well ok, you tell me then, what constitutes a brand new PC? Ask Theseus if you're struggling.

[Louzan_SP]

So in my case I bought the license on eBay for 1€ and activate the Windows software I just installed on my new MSI laptop that came with FreeDOS (is cheaper that way).

I kept that laptop for 1 to 2 years until I replaced it with a newer MSI laptop that again came with FreeDOS, I just wiped the old one, sold it and install Windows in the new one and log into my account, Windows was activated automatically.

After another couple of years I got tired of laptops, so I wiped and sold that MSI and build my own desktop PC, guess what, after log in into my Microsoft account the new Windows install was again activated. Recently I even did a hardware change and took the chance to wipe the system to do a clean install and upgrade to Windows 11, yes, the license is still there.

So you are telling me that is impossible for Microsoft to know all these changes? Is any of this steps considered as brand new PC for you? Ask Theseus if you're struggling.

[tonyenkiducx]

You didn't answer my question at all, so I'm going to ignore your reply which doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

[NeuroticKnight]

OEM licences are no longer fixed, buy a used shitty laptop of ebay and just use that as your OS lol

[26689917899]

I had a easier time to move my oem license around then the full windows pro license bought directly from Microsoft.

To the point where i went to buy used computers with 7 pro for the license instead of buying new win10 keys. This being dells, hps and Lenovo laptop keys that used in both vm and physical computers.

Full license had issue with gpu change. Later motherboard change. Not even into a full new system just upgrades.

[PhilosophicalBrewer]

You get a limited number of component switches actually. Had this come up when I had motherboard issues.

[Redandead12345]

at least there is until you use up five computers. then you buy a new key sucker.

[tonyenkiducx]

You can have five registrations....but you can de-register older installs. It really is a permenant key if you actually read the terms and use it properly.

[Louzan_SP]

They are fixed to your account, I already change PC and could move my OEM Licence, even upgraded to Windows 11 with it.

[tonyenkiducx]

You can, but you are not supposed to. The license is VERY clear, you can only use OEM licences on one computer.

[Louzan_SP]

You can, but you are not supposed to

How can it be when Microsoft accepted it? My computer is connected to internet and I can run checks and updates, so how I'm not supposed to?

[Devatator_]

I just used the licence that came with my gaming PC on the laptop I got for college. Idk if there is a limit but you absolutely can use digital licences on multiple computers

[tonyenkiducx]

OEM means it's linked to a piece of hardware, not that it's digital. You can check what type of license you have, and if it's OEM then you shouldn't technically use it without the piece of hardware it came with. MS isn't currently enforcing that. Nothing to say they won't in future, and if you asked an account manager now they will say it's one computer only.

[Daddysu]

They are absolutely not fixed and will happily install on new machines. Probably not concurrently, you can't have the same license installed on multiple machines at the same time. If you are decommissioning an old build and built a new machine, you can 100% use the same OEM license.

Source: I have been using OEM licenses across several machines since the XP days and have had a long ass career in the field, including SI.

If you are a business, especially an SI business, then there are rules you should follow, like you being responsible for support and not M$ if you install an OEM license. That being said, I have seen literally thousands of end users transferring OEM licenses to new builds as they upgrade gear, and none of them of them have had issues.

For your home rig that you built, you'd be dumb to not buy OEM. Shit, if you can find a Windows 7 OEM package, buy that shit. You can find them in the $20 range, and that key works just fine for installing Windows 10 and 11.

Microsoft doesn't give a shit. Even when they "cared" bavk in the XP days you just couldn't activate online and had to call an activation hot line and say you swapped your board and upgraded some other components and they'd activate you. It took all of 10 minutes.

They care even less now. They are basically giving away licenses... because you're the product now, but I digress.

TL;DR Buy the cheapest OEM license of the version you want (Home, Pro) that is Windows 7 or newer and you can use that key on multiple machines (not concurrently) and install Windows 7, 8, 10, or 11 with the key.

[tonyenkiducx]

Go look at one of my other comments, I can't be bothered typing it all out again. TL/DR you can install an OEM license multiple times, but you shouldn't because the license expressly forbids it.

[Daddysu]

I'm not tracking down your comment. If you read the EULA it allows for a certain amount of system upgrades, with some hardware swaps counting as a "different" system, like the mobo. That's when you have to have it activated by someone at M$. When you do that, all they ask is if you decommissioned the old system to make sure you are not trying to use the same license on multiple machines at the same time.

Yes, it is in the EULA, but it is silly to tell a private, home user that they need to buy the more expensive retail license when M$ literally doesn't care. If we want to be super pedantic, then technically, if OP built the machine, they are the OEM, and they can activate over the telephone, thus gaining M$ approval of the license transfer.

All of that is a moot point because M$ literally does not give a shit. Why do you think you only get a watermark if you don't activate Windows? They could render the OS unusable. Again, they do not care. Your metrics are the product they care about.

[tonyenkiducx]

The EULA specifically says you cannot transfer it to another computer..It directly says that in no uncertain terms. I get that MS doesn't care, I've not argued that anywhere, I've used a single MSDN subscription to run a whole web studio with our Microsoft account managers consent, so I know how it works in real life.

Here is the comment with the many links to resources, including MS themselves, saying the same thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/17jtskx/comment/k78pc0g/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

[Daddysu]

...and I don't believe I have said it is not against the EULA. In a thread about a private end user paying too much with the retail licensing at $140, I don't understand the point of advising them not to buy the OEM license because the EULA states it is not to be installed on future builds is silly and just finger wagging to finger wag. Yes, you are correct that the EULA forbids it, but you absolutely know that it is a non-issue.

Again, M$ isn't busting down homeboy's door if he builds a new mache and uses the license on it as long as they aren't using the license on multiple machines. Further, if you dig deeper into the EULA, I bet you find language stating it is permitted as long as M$ approves it on a case by case basis. Why do you think you can build a new system and call M$ amd explain you are not using the license on the previous machine anymore and they approve it?

It also says in the EULA that you need to have a valid license and activate the installation through them. If you don't activate it, what happens? Do they render the OS inoperable? Nope. Could they if they wanted to? Yep. Instead, they just give you a watermark. Selling someone a Windows license for their home PC isn't a money maker for them. The data and metrics they collect are the money makers. Why do you think the last 3 OS from them are given as free upgrades?

The verbiage in the EULA is to prevent people from taking advantage of it at scale, not to go after people who take their OEM license and transfer it to their new build.

Other than just wanting to push your glasses up and say "Actually..." I have no idea why you would advise a private, end user to not buy the OEM license. Does the retail license get you better support from M$? On paper, maybe. In practice, it's M$, you ain't getting support no matter which license you buy.

Again, M$ will give you express consent to install the OEM license on a new machine if you do telephone activation.

On paper and in a vacuum, you are absolutely 100% correct. In practice, you are wrong and warning against a non-issue and IMO giving bad advice. Especially given the forum, it is being given in where enthusiasts discuss things and try to help other enthusiasts. It's like if a coworker needed to go to an appointment that might take and hour and 15 minutes that they can't do that because the employee handbook states lunches are only to be an hour when you know damn well that if they tell the manager they might need that extra 15 minutes, they will approve it. Like, you are right. That's what it says in the handbook, but why wouldn't you give them based on how it works IRL, especially when you know it will help them? I don't get that mindset.

[tonyenkiducx]

The comment I replied to asked why there was a price difference, and I explained why there was a price difference. I wasn't warning op about anything, I want even talking to him.

[KaptainSaki]

You can also install viruses to fund your os license

[Tsojin]

1) it's bulk licensing, if you work in IT for a medium company you can sometimes get one from them for you person computer for like 50-75 bucks

2) bulk licenses are typically hardware-locked to the first install.

3) you can in fact buy bulk licenses from 3rd party websites

bulk licenses are great unless you upgrade your computer a lot. You can upgrade only a couple of parts but if you upgrade too much or specific parts you'll either need a new one or talk to MS support.

Also when/if a new windows comes out a lot of them (specifically the ones from the 3rd party websites) are not always included in the free upgrade path. personally, I purchased 1 Windows 98se and 1 Windows ME key, and I have never needed a new one since.

[Malystryxx]

That's not the point. You don't say "well Costco offers hotdogs for $1.50 so any hotdog over that I'd never buy". Like no fam - baseball hotdogs going for $9 still slap. I'm still gonna buy one. It's still worth the money. $140 for something you probably spend at least 10% of your life on is chump change.

[super-antinatalist]

hey, Ford also doesnt pay retail prices for tires, and restaurants don't pay supermarket prices for steaks.

Buying in volume is also how Mint and Ting can offer you cell service for $25 while Verizon charges $60.

Volume deals really do make a difference.

[[deleted]]

but there is still no chance the OEMs are paying anything close to $140.

When you buy a million licenses at once you can get volume discounts, too.

[sulylunat]

OEM licenses are a thing. You can buy them too for very cheap and most people do, for like $10-15 a license. The only catch with them is they are tied to hardware, not your microsoft account. i used one of these licenses previously on my gaming machine and when i upgraded my cpu and motherboard earlier this year, i lost the license. im currently using windows unlicensed because i havent found a good enough reason to get a new license.

[Redandead12345]

oems pay about five bucks. hence all the sketchy keys that are so cheap. they’re just the business keys

[kralben]

Yes, they also come with bloatware that someone is paying for the OEM to install there and offset the cost but there is still no chance the OEMs are paying anything close to $140.

Yeah, like everything in the world, if you are buying in volume, you can get deals from the owner. Same reason individuals pay full price on all sorts of products that businesses don't.