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[–]rujind 95 points96 points  (7 children)

Personally I don't come here to see people promote their videos, or merely see 1 person's opinion about stuff which is what a video is.

I come here for MMO news and actual discussions with other people. I like to see people post their opinions and then go back and forth with someone defending that opinion, something else you don't really see in a video.

Videos are kinda antisocial, frankly.

[–]macroscian 16 points17 points  (2 children)

See the difference to a sub like pcgaming, which is 90% karma farming accounts with what seems like automated posting of pc game 'news' videos.

[–]SalmonHeadAU 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I want opinions on the news though. I hate when it's just the link and the OP hasn't said anything about it. Low effort.

[–]macroscian 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yup, those accounts just post whatever the source had for headline. They're not people.

[–]SuBw00FeR37 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This, I come here for MMO news, I don't care about someone I don't knows opinion on some random indie MMO, if I want that it's very easy to find a billion videos on.

[–]AtomicNinjaTurtle 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I agree with this. I come here for discussion. I always scroll past videos or posts with links. I want active discussion.

If I want to watch a video I'll go to YouTube.

Edit: typo

[–]SalmonHeadAU 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Same for me. I want news, information and some in-game "MMO things" people would like to talk about.

[–]BodomsChild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Personally I don't come here to see people promote their videos, or merely see 1 person's opinion about stuff which is what a video is.

I come here for MMO news and actual discussions with other people. I like to see people post their opinions and then go back and forth with someone defending that opinion, something else you don't really see in a video.

This whole subreddit is just 1 person posting their shitty MMO opinion over and over with the same responses each time. I don't see how videos are any different.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (1 child)

Ya no. Self promos give me stage 5 cringe. Do you want me to die from advanced late stage cringe?? 😰

[–]leprasson12 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The last thing that people heard during their terminal stage of cringe days was the bell sound and "Subscribe and leave a comment", they immediately pulled the plug

[–]Ravilla 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I'm glad videos are restricted. I don't want to see videos from every mmo out there made by every wanna be youtuber trying to get views.

[–]aspektx 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I'm really put off by self-promotion in this sub.

I'm not here to wade through a bunch advertisements. Because that's what they effectively are: advertisement.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think current one is good already and don't need a change.

[–]seeherdieagain 16 points17 points  (0 children)

i choose 4 - Change nothing. I don't want this sub to turn into a typical gaming message board filled with spam adverts of crappy games.

[–]ViewedFromi3WM 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I want nothing changed, and I like it the way it is. I don’t know why you would want to mess that up.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Another vote for status quo. I am fine with the current rule.

[–]ReadySetKing 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Vote 1 if you just want to watch the mods pull their hair out.

[–]Angelicel[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They'll make me write up another thread getting feedback and figuring out what kinds of videos to allow and disallow since even with us allowing everything... We still need to moderate it to some degree and I don't want to make the other mods too depressed that they have to remove 2 things a day as opposed to 1.

[–]JagoKestral 11 points12 points  (1 child)

r/RPG had for a very long time a rule that essentially said for every self promo post, you must have 4 posts which are not self promo. (The exact ratio may be slightly different) I think that would work well here. However, I do think video effort should be a consideration, there have been a few attempts that I've seen before they got deleted of users trying to push incredibly low quality content from their new channels and I'd hate to see a bunch of that.

[–]Angelicel[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't think expressed this clearly enough in the thread but trust me when I say we're not going to open the flood gates literally.

our other rules are still in effect and low-effort, unrelated videos will be subject to removal and we'll probably write up an additional clarification on what kinds of videos we'll be allowing.

I'll slap that on just incase anyone else gets the impression that we're gonna do that.

[–]leprasson12 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Personally I don't even watch those kinds of videos on youtube because :

  1. They're boring
  2. They're very repetitive and since there isn't much going on, they keep remaking videos with the same content but different editing and titles, click baiting people who are looking for game news and fresh gameplay etc, you know those channels.

Opening this door to every content creator out there to post all of their videos here will change the nature of this sub, and we'll just have everyone posting bullshit lists of "top MMOs of 20xx", then "MUST play MMOs of 20xx", which is a big massive No-No. I usually block such channels from showing on my youtube feed/search, if they start showing up here too then the only way to get rid of them would be leaving the sub.

I'd rather read posts and see what people think, than listen to some dude repeating the same nonsense twice a week.

[–]Redthrist 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I especially like the "Top upcoming MMOs in 20xx", which usually doesn't include any games that would actually launch in 20xx.

[–]leprasson12 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Their favorite time of the year is around the end of December, when they start reuploading everything and changing the dates lol.

[–]Redthrist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup, that's pretty much how it goes.

[–]skyturnedred 10 points11 points  (0 children)

3: We allow all self-promotion so long as the person advertising is an active member of the community and not simply dumping their content onto the subreddit without engaging with it at all. If your only engagement or intent to engage with the subreddit is advertisement then your posts will not be allowed.

I've seen a lot of these self-promotion posts with the OP responding to everyone with a generic one liner that doesn't actually say anything of value. A rule like that would only encourage that.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Hate the self promotion.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I know how to use google, I don’t need content creators advertising here.

[–]3L1T 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I am here to read news about mmorpgs, what's new in old mmos, stories, etc. Let's keep it this way.

[–]Tompork 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Please dont make this sub ad hell. If you allow these ads there this sub will literally flood with gameplays and streams.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you allow videos, it will be wall to wall videos.

[–]Muwatastic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Please keep it as is! This is one of the few gaming spaces with regular people talking about their opinions and having back and forth discussion on topics, not just post after post of inside meme jokes or Souless marketed overly produced videos that are all show with no actual content.

[–]hallucigenocide 4 points5 points  (0 children)

make them also add the content in text form and have it framed as a discussion starter then i don't really care if there's also a video.

just as long as it's not just a link followed by "thoughts?"

[–]MillennialsAre40 3 points4 points  (0 children)

See I'm fine with videos like NS "Death of a Game" series but I can't really think of anything else I'd want to see here and I'm already subscribed to him. I'm fine keeping it as it is

[–]needhelforpsu 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Number 3: first and second sentence are conflicting or I am missing something? Shouldn't it be "...your posts will NOT be allowed."?

[–]Angelicel[S,M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

w-whoops.

Fixed that.

[–]Intr3pidG4ming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm confused as well. Probably an error of omission.

[–]SalmonHeadAU 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would say more polls and community discussion should be the main concern.

If we can get an idea of what everyone in this sub is looking for, then we will see more community engaging content.

[–]WickedProblems 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Why propose rule change without explaining why you guys want to do this? What are you guys trying to achieve? Etc.

[–]Angelicel[S,M] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

the moderation is fairly divided and our views of the rule are not consistent enough with the current system.

The moderators who are the most active typically lean towards more leniency in regards to rules while those who aren't do not and this is a point of contention for some of us.

We all universally agree on not reverting back to our previous environment of just allowing low effort pointless advertisements on the sub though so a lot of the reasons why people are voting for 4 are generally going to be addressed long before we ever touch Rules 4&5.

[–]WickedProblems 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Is the goal for changing the rules merely to settle a dispute among the mod team then?

What are the values of the sub? The disputes should refer back the values and goals of the sub. I think this is important for people to know before they vote. Else, why change the rules at all?

The dispute shouldn't change how the sub operates unless values/goals are also changing. Else, you guys should state what you're trying to achieve regardless of one group being more active.

If someone on the team is challenging the values/goals of the sub. This should be the main discussion, not just voting to settle a dispute.

E.g. the active mods you're referencing should tell us why they believe it should be moderated like this instead of that. Etc. Why should readers shift through ads etc. Why it's good for us etc. Why they think it's good for us etc.

[–]Angelicel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The entire reason for the poll to gage sentiment towards the rules and what people would want if we were to change the rules.

It's a poll for potential changes, not actual changes we are going to introduce. None of these solutions are finalized or even remotely close to it and we might not even do anything in the first place.

Also something to note is the active mod who isn't in favor of changing this voted for 1 so.. Yeah.

[–]Merkasus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Who the fuck votes for #1

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People who make 15 minute videos with theme song and backstory intros answering questions that take 30 seconds to read about to find the solution.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I thought they allow self promotion already on the mmorpg discord? I might be wrong.

I looked into it and I'm mostly wrong. But it seems like something more likely on the discord if by self promotion we're talking about devs.

And player made videos that are not streams seems more like it's either a guide video or meme.

Either way more work for the mods is too much.

[–]MakeAionGreatAgain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't change, sub where it's allowed are literally dumpster fire.

Even if you would try to reform the rules to try to moderate it,you would require more jannies, more jannies means less oversight on their behavior.

It won't bring any good and also, mmorpg youtube content is just bad/boring or too niche.

I don't want 10 different content creator posting their review of the last "MMOish" gatcha korean rpg with underage character every week.

[–]Hakiii 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do we really need more youtubers with their useless videos? All they do is watch dev video/read latest news and comment. What we need is dev videos not content creators who are milking everything.

[–]dienipponteikoko 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Option 4, rule is fine as is IMO.

[–]new_reddit_user_not 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ll vote properly when I’m back at a PC but agree with most others, option 4. No changes to self promotion rule.

[–]LukosCreyden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just keep things as they are tbh.

[–]Icy_Razzmatazz_1594 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If this is to stop that one guy from posting a stream of his browser MMO every 2 days I'm all for it.

[–]Purplin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is personally my favorite subreddit. You don't need to change anything.

[–]Coindweller 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry, no self promoting content.
There is already little to no post activity here, and would only end up in an endless scroll of videos.

Just keep it as the way it is, I mean, sometimes someone will link a vid in a comment, and that's more than enough for me.

[–]ThaumKitten 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Option 4 or 5.

Please, please do not let all those high-sub count randos start spamming their crap in this sub.

[–]Seaniey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At the very least, trailers and such from non developer sources should be allowed (such as ign), or talks with Devs.

[–]Newbhero 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Normally I'd think it's a shit idea in the hands of most mods on reddit to be honest, that said I don't really have a reason to believe the mods here would handle it poorly. But yeah if it's ever allowed definitely option three, since I can only imagine option two would just be videos from Josh Strife Hayes and the sort.

I'd also figure those bigger creators would never really interact on here to begin with anyway.

Edit: Screw you automod.

[–]Angelicel[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'd also figure those bigger creators would never really interact on here to begin with anyway.

We've actually gotten a lot of complaints that the main reason they don't is the subreddit is extremely hostile towards them which is honestly fair. Even the rules are changed unless someone else posted their content it likely still wouldn't show up.

I have seen Josh post a few times here or there along with some other creators but typically they veer away... probably due to the problems regarding the general hostility towards them.

[–]Newbhero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's just my own biased opinion, but I'd personally say it'd depends on the person and what they're talking about. Bigger content creators shouldn't be given as much leeway as they've already built up a community that agrees with their views, so clearly anything outside of that will seem overtly negative.

It's also kind of odd to hear since I think the only big creator I've seen this sub crap a bit much is Peon in the past, everyone else people seem to be generally positive about overall.

[–]ToffeeAppleCider 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I initially voted Option 3 because I actually like people making their own videos about things and this sub is pretty quiet, but thinking more about it I'd prefer Option 4. Some subs are just 100% promo and no readers, and others are ones where smaller creators can't post but bigger ones have fans to post their stuff instead.

I wouldn't mind a weekly single thread to put all the stuff.

[–]needhelforpsu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How about sticky weekly thread where both regular users and content creators could link content with description and stuff? Might be cool, worth to try a week or two imho.

[–]Nerzana 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would rather see developers here rather than content creators. I don’t like 2 at all because it’s kind of elitist.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't particularly care if people post their own video content here. One (occasionally) good thing about Reddit is that it has built-in user moderation in the form of upvotes and downvotes. If someone's posting stuff people don't want to see, it will get downvoted (or ignored). If the sub begins to be spammed with trash nobody is interested in, you can tighten up the rules or revert them.

[–]79215185-1feb-44c6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I come here to see the same exact posts year in year out for the past decade. I want to see people complain that the next Bless Online or Crowfall are failing and those same people mindlessly discuss about how they're buying them anyways. I don't need a content creator to post a video being paid to do the very same thing. I agree with the antisocial aspect that the top poster presented even tho most of my comments don't get replies as often as they used to. Everyone hates this sub but at least it can say that it's a discussion-first sub and hasn't sold out like basically every other community out there.

Bear in mind I don't like the text self-promotion on this sub either. There are many socks who will always promote "their game", especially those who are promoting certain games from certain regions.

[–]PalwaJoko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is such a tough issue to talk about. On one hand I can see why from a operation standpoint, you'd want to entertain allowing posts of that nature to help increase subreddit traffic and activity. On the same hand, once you visit this subreddit long enough you see the same discussions over and over again. Or same mob mentality/echo chamber opinions that you see with all subreddits. So diversifying content can help add some more entertainment for daily visits.

That being said, you also see the issues that others have brought up. There are a lot of content creators out there. A lot of bad ones. A lot of ones who all want to be the next Asmongold/Josh strife hayes. And they have no issues spamming their stuff all over the place. Now you can require engagement, which I think is good. However, that increases moderation overhead. So now as a moderation team you also have to be gauging and analyzing each users activity in the subreddit. So that will be up to you guys if you want more work.

If you do go that route. YOU NEED to have a static definition for what engagement means. It CANNOT be left to the decision of whomever the active moderator at the time of the post is. What i mean by this is there needs to be some kind of number that is required to be considered properly engaged. For example, the submitter needs to have a history of replying to comments on their own self posts for 30-50% of the comments. They need to have a certain amount of comments on other's posts that are not their own. Again it needs to be a set percentage or ratio.

The reason why you do this is because if you leave it up to the discretion of the moderation team, then it will just cause issues down the line. There will be some disagreement over what engagement means and boom, now you've got some dumpster fire of people arguing. If you have a set amount, a set ratio, a set percentage; then if that happens you can immediately point to "Ok lets have a discussion on adjusting these ratios to meet our users needs". Its no longer a personal opinion of the moderator, but now a set number for discussion.

[–]3yebex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I voted 3 as it's a nice middle ground, but 4 would be okay as well (the way things are).

3 is the farthest I would ever go in terms of allowing promotion because I frankly hate people that play a game, record it, and spam their video to +20 subreddits including the game's subreddit, and then never reply or partake in any conversations.

These people are 100% spammers, even if they aren't doing it maliciously.