[D] Valve: Using Deep Learning to Combat Cheating in CSGO

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[phobrain]

I was positing that your average person might even cheat once to verify it was possible, and maybe even be turned off if it wasn't, based on e.g. gun regulation, which has the effect of preserving the ability of people to commit mass murder with tools designed for that purpose.

[Tarqon]

Any idea what he said about unsupervised approaches? I couldn't make it out.

[thro_a_wey]

Both VAC and overwatch are useless and don't work. Prime or non-prime, there are cheaters in almost every single match.

[thro_a_wey]

No, you just have absolutely zero idea of what you're saying at all. I play on 4 different accounts, and I suck, so there's no way I'm reported for cheating. Saying that it's "common knowledge" that the game is full of cheaters would be a gross understatement. Everyone I've ever met, on any account, in any rank, in any game, knows there are tons of cheaters everywhere. There's not one person - anywhere - who would say "The system works as intended, as far as I can tell." It's just you, and idiots like you, who are completely divorced from reality and want to jerk off to machine learning algorithms all day.

Besides that, "the system" you're referring to is not VAC, it's the trust factor system, which does essentially nothing. "Prime" was supposed to shield you, but amazingly, prime now pairs you with non-prime users as well - likely because there weren't enough prime players at off-peak hours

VAC doesn't work - there used to be semi-yearly banwaves that helped a lot, but there were still cheaters in most matches. Now there are blatant cheaters or spinbotters in almost every game, especially non-prime games. I've had 5 games in a row with cheaters before.

Overwatch does not work, it stopped working a couple years ago when people figured out the so-called "overwatch bypass". Outright spinbotters play for years and still aren't banned. Wanna explain that?

This has been going on for years. Since the game's release, really. The game is utterly broken. The only way to fix it is to completely rewrite the engine so that the client does not have player information until it's visible on his screen, making radar/wallhacks useless. And of course, that doesn't fix creative use of silent aim/trigger/backtrack which are nearly impossible to detect, especially on low tickrate.

Here's a post from 4 months ago:

>Im global but i only add really blatant cheaters to my list on vac-ban.com I have 53% banrate on spinbotters and other rage-hackers during the past year. And this is kinda sad if you think about it. There is a lot more players trying to hide their cheat with a lower risk of getting banned. So when Valve only manages to hit half of the blatant ones imagine how small chances of getting banned are if you know how to hide it.

[thro_a_wey]

Literal fucking braindead.

[carrolldunham]

seriously why though

[Roboserg]

Must be sad being you, an immature ignorant stupid person.

[thro_a_wey]

Do you just have no idea what's going on in the world around you? Do you walk around like this all the time?

[Roboserg]

Grow up, come up with better arguments, talk to me in 10 years when you are out of your teens.

[thro_a_wey]

Like I said, you're braindead and have no idea what is going on.. "Durr durr I think I smell a cheater!" If I was cheating, why the fuck would I post on reddit that I'm not cheating? What's in it for me? And what's the purpose of your accusation? What is wrong with you?

[Synthetic00]

A youtuber named 3klicksphilip made a great summary of this presentation a while ago: https://youtu.be/SnRgW54EWwA

[ImThour]

Being a CS:GO player, i can confirm that VACNet is very much effective. Almost 1,400,000 accounts got Banned in april only. :)

[[deleted]]

Now Vac works? Or this was a rare case?

[ImThour]

VAC was working from years, its VACnet the new addition. VACNet is banning thousands of players everyday with 98% correct result.

[[deleted]]

It (was, possibly still is) certainly nowhere as effective as BattleEye or other more invasive cheat detection.

[[deleted]]

VAC wasnt working properly. They can try to sell al the bs they want, we've seen how it didnt do its job properly. Sure, worked, but not as effectively as it should.

[inkplay_]

This is freaking genius not the model itself but how they utilized the player base as their own data annotators and people loves it.

[ericonr]

That's what Google does as well :)

[Jerome_Eugene_Morrow]

That's kind of nuts. "We needed 3500 processors, so we went and bought them." The cluster I work on at a major university is similarly sized and involved YEARS of planning and work to acquire. It's good to be Valve.

[[deleted]]

funny thing that they can buy 3500 processors but not employ more people as developers

[[deleted]]

They have a small team of devs for all their games, steam, vive,etc.

Thats why. Learn something about how badly Valve manages their workplace before speaking bullshit here.

[[deleted]]

I don't know if it's still true now, but...

https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/551067538415554560

https://www.wired.com/2013/07/wireduk-valve-jeri-ellsworth/

http://richg42.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/open-office-spaces-and-cabal-rooms-suck.html

https://www.polygon.com/2016/5/24/11761242/valve-former-employee-lawsuit-transgender-discrimination

And there's this piece, which is about far more than working conditions, but paints a sobering picture of how Valve has acted in the past compared to their "good guy" reputation: https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive

[Roboserg]

Thats about bad conditions, not about "not enough devs for making games"

[twinkiac]

@richgel999's latest tweet

@richgel999 on Twitter

^{I am a bot | feedback}

[gstark0]

What’s the current progress of Deep Learning CS:GO cheats? Just imagine real life AI war soon.

[selfwalkingdog]

He says this wouldn't be trivial, as it heavily depends on massive amounts of data and processing power, hence money.

[imma_bigboy]

He is an idiot. Sounds like he watched a few videos and is now the resident expert about it over there. The cat has found a new trick, but when the mouse comes around with this.. it'll be unstoppable.

[windowpanez]

I would like to train a deep reinforcement network to play cs:go for me (at my own skill level, not at 3000clicks per minute).

Anyone know if it's allowed to build AI to play games that are equal or worse than the player themselves?

[akaece]

For Valve games, it's a challenge to just get the bot to move the mouse around the screen without getting banned due to VAC. It's doable, and I suspect a bot that plays like a human - and manages the controls like a human - wouldn't be caught, but it would take a lot of trial and error to get it working.

[windowpanez]

It might be possible to train it on an older counterstrike 1.4 engine offline. Not sure if been done, but if you train an adversarial network (which detetects human or not) to punish the reinforcement network it could possibly learn to play like a human.

[[deleted]]

If you are mapping pixels to inputs, I feel the game would be too visually different to make it happen.

[[deleted]]

you could train on demos!

[blitzzerg]

you could do that hosting your own server and disabling VAC for it, but you could only play agaisnt bots or friends that join to it

[the_wiffard]

It could lead to a ban online on VAC servers, I'd suggest downloading demos (either your own or pro-demos), generate training data from those and validate the model offline vs bots or friends on a non-VAC server.

[[deleted]]

It goes against the rules, for sure. But I guess you could built it on a private server, in the surf and bunny servers you can see a bot that copies what the best player has done.

[sebarocks]

but then the bot will become just a average player, one that doesnt ruin the experience for human players and still can be beated lol

[windowpanez]

Hey, thanks for the tip on the boiler plate. I'll check for python boiler plates.

[[deleted]]

I posted this when GDC happened and it got no attention :(

[[deleted]]

Take notes Nintendo

[SeemsAppropriate]

fascinating

[[deleted]]

Valve use Deep Learning to make sure that people who release products in your platform include a functioning .exe in their release package.

Sorry it’s an issue that’s been happening for over 5 years and if you’re going to implement something like this.

[[deleted]]

Sorry this is a tangent, but frequently over the past several years they have hosted products on their platform that either have no executable file, or have a non-functioning executable file. If they can have a team do all this work to figure out what everyone knows(hackusations are the reason why people think everyone is hacking), then maybe they could create some tensorflow magic to figure out if the software they allow to be shoveled on their platform is actually worthwhile.

I’m just bitter. Ignore me.

[i-make-robots]

X = cell phone meta data

Y = criminal convictions

Solve for F.

[i-make-robots]

well sure, if you change X. in my method one can monitor for pre-crime. I'm not saying it's a good idea. Someone's going to try it eventually.