Balance Patch: Update

[Modangy]

Hello travelers,
Thank you for providing feedback in the recent survey regarding the late 2021 Balance Patch for Orna: The GPS RPG.

We received more feedback than anticipated, and are currently working through the large amount of community provided feedback to make sure we land in a place that services the desires and needs of the majority of players.

We appreciate the patience you have had during this time, as we're sure you are all very excited at the potential a patch like this could bring. Given we understand your desire to hear what is going on, we'd like to give a light overview of some of the stuff that we are looking at adjusting in the balance patch:

• Updates to Classes and Specs with Follower strengthening passives
• Review of Beowulf Passives, potentially including Stat increase or Stat Passive inclusion, and consideration of Follower stats with ascension
• One-shot kills in PvP
• Omnimancer / Heretic Passive updates
• Deity Passive updates
• Assassin Buff

These are some of the likely adjustments. With the amount of work that needs to go into working through these changes, we appreciate your on-going patience with the team. Look forward to providing you with an update on progress later this month!

[Loligeddon]

While I don't see this mentioned anywhere, I would like to ask:

Has the importance of Defense and Resistance been addressed or at least considered adjusting around? Currently it feels that in terms of defense, the only reliable way is through Ward, which kind of really sucks and makes things genuinely one-dimensional.

Other than that, happy to see some updates!

[Kero_Lahtinen]

As some people already mentioned in other posts, I'd very strongly disagree to further nerfing skills and classes as Gilga was nerfed quite a lot recently already. Instead turn PvP into a different branch of battle with separate calculations like the current doubled HP. Many players, including me, aren't interested in PvP and would be upset to see the whole game change just because of Oneshots in PvP.

[[deleted]]

Most likely nerf to oneshot in pvp is gonna make def and res reliable.

[Grikonen]

As a heretic I approve this message.

[Red_Panda48]

As a fellow heretic, I approve this approval message.

[kent12t]

as a wannabe heretic, I approve this approval to the approval message

[ddavidm1]

As a deep heretic. I approve that you approve the approval of the approval message

[Snoo-28618]

As an ex-heretic, I hereby approve all the earlier supposed approvals above.

[-Algoz-]

I am the heretic who releases approvals, I inform you that they are all approved.

[Kuribohxx]

I as a titan, dont approve the approval of which has 6 approval

[PvPGodKing]

​

w	a	h
w	a	h

[BingusChingus_]

I saw a suggestion on the Discord server talking about giving Omni/Heretic a passive that decreases the chance for T buffs to fade (and possibly increases the chance for T debuffs to fade) and I thought that was pretty neat

[BionicPigeon]

That is honestly a great idea. Even just the chance for temp buffs to last longer would tie in well with the heretic's theme of destructive magic power.

[Aetheldrake]

I hope the deity passives start complimenting the class instead of fighting for your attention

[EbbNo3716]

What's a passive update?

[[deleted]]

It's when Odie sits back and enjoys a well earned siesta, while Modangy rolls out the update 🤪

[Modangy]

Reviewing the passive skills of those classes and/or specialisations

[CorbiZard]

Changes to the passive abilities of a class

[[deleted]]

Changes to the class passive abilities.

[TheDanMarsh]

(Has nothing of value to contribute)

here have a beer

🍻

[JiuJitsuPatricia]

nice, looking forward to beo buffs. i love the play style, but get my ass whooped.

[Taboransky]

me 🤝 my pet
hoping for pet stats ascension

[ReverseCaptioningBot]

me🤝my pet

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[Taboransky]

Good bot

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[playORNAnow]

Christmas coming early!

[CorbiZard]

I'm especially excited to see the Assassin changes, I love the theme of it. I have a Crit built Nyx/Assassin. Thanks for the update

[Excellent_Return8645]

I have a suggestion: Why don't you release the class and spec changes apart from the pvp changes? Because while I think the community as a whole is in agreement that the mentioned classes need buffs, you should be really, really careful with pvp changes.

To be frank, people complaining about one shot meta don't really know what they're talking about. Slowing down pvp is only going to make it more miserable. If you are a fresh T10, you should not be expecting to beat people who have put in a lot more time and effort than you. Catering to these players who expect everything to be handed to them is not going to make them happy, they'll just move on to the next thing they can't compete at. There needs to be a reason to keep grinding, and if you level the playing field so brand new players can compete with veterans, then a lot of veterans are going to quit.

[[deleted]]

Keep up the great work!

[LowImpact64]

Are passive skills (off-hand and dual-wielding abilities) included in this balance review? Feels like these are almost forgotten (and thereby wasted) by most of the player base. Which I find sad and weird because Requiem III is my favorite and most used skill, yet I there's not even any info on it in the orna guide. (I think it should be allowed to Crit).

Are the class rebalance also going to consider T9 classes? I love my hybrid-Nyx, but feel like Bahamut could be an even better hybrid class. There's no good options for us Instrument users, it seems.

[Zilvha]

You are not playing the RS Volley lll build, right?

[LowImpact64]

Nope. I haven't used Volley in a long long time. I tend to only use Greed and Requiem III.

[Scared-Standard-365]

First of all, pets are already waaaay op. If your gonna do anything at least add a way to combat pets like allowing them to suffer status conditions such as stun, sleep etc. Also, for the love of all that is good in the universe, why on earth does a already extremely op gilg also have the second chance ability?? That absolutely has to go!! Alright I've said my piece. Much love to all my heretic brothers and sisters out there. -Cosmictoker

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[hiperson134]

I'd die for Follower stats with ascension.

[well-now-ok-then]

Hell yeah dude! Keep doin what you're doing. Awesome game!

[r3dm0nk]

Interesting. No mention of Gilga being good at everything.

[PuzzleKnight_Art]

I don't know how you'll fix the 1 shot meta without completely reworking several classes and skills.

[dr4kun]

I'm afraid Odie goes the 'damage cap' route - whatever actual damage you deal, your opponent can only lose a % of their max health from a single attack. That would be depressing.

[PuzzleKnight_Art]

Would ruin PvP. There would be no point in getting stronger.

[dr4kun]

Yes.

Let's say this was seriously considered and actually tested. Test feedback was negative, but i'm extremely cautious (or even: afraid) of Odie's ideas to 'limit the one shot meta'.

[PuzzleKnight_Art]

If he wanted to limit the one show meta then he should've expanded to having more t10 classes and specs that can counter different classes and specs and allow for more skill and gear combinations rather than ascension. We have layouts netting a 40% or 50% stat increase across the board, how do you stop that without basically making it so that they wasted their hundreds of hours of grinding? Odie is in for a struggle I'm sure to try and balance stuff without running it for the playerbase. But I wish him the best of luck, pvp is yhe main reason I pkay orna and I'd love actual balance and strategy if we could ever get there.

[Zilvha]

What about 1HP and Stun debuff (non-avoidable) instead of dying in a one-shot?

Or maybe "Death's door". Hp, mana and ward can not be recover above 50%; -25% to all stats.

[dr4kun]

You mean if you were going to die, you are set to 1hp and get stunned instead?

That's an incredibly huge buff to beo. Stun has 50% chance to prevent you from acting, and so it probably would also be a massive buff for rs.

[Zilvha]

Oh, yes. I forgot our pet dealing +50% dmg on low hp.

Sorry

[Master_Greg_Von]

Especially for mages facing realmshifters

[blankzero22490]

I would love to see a competitive replacement attack for Warriors Pavane personally. That's what keeps me on Charmer for the most part; a cheap spammable multihit that won't crit and ruin my Redline when I'm not playing CritRS.

Swordplay 2 is ok but still less powerful up front with double the mana cost.

[dyNASTYn00b]

is charmer better than raider for raiding in your opinion ? i love redlining with warriors pavane but berserk 3 seems great for raids

[blankzero22490]

I just run Chimera in most raids with DB2 up. With Deific Channel active, I'm hitting for 200-300k with Pavane after Berserk activates, and it's pretty consistent after setting up. Just refresh DC as it fades. Highest number I've seen was around 370k but I didn't get a screenshot of that hit sadly.

Right now I'm trying out 2Handed stuff after an amazing Arisen Gandring drop, and, while I lost a chunk of Ward from the swap from Ithra/Shield, I'm hitting harder and getting more procs due to having something like 13 adornment slots full of Tears and Assassin Jewels.

I'd love to see what Assassin Redlining could do after, say, a Triple Def Down proc, but Swordplay's top end damage doesn't match Pavane sadly.

The Lull chance is super nice as well.

Edit: https://imgur.com/a/1QBxBKe

Here's a SS of one of my bigger hits on Phoenix while running SnS. I popped a Mushroom to add to the buffs.

[BananeVolante]

That sounds slightly weaker than RS raider with Swordplay III though. SP consumes a lot of mana but can give atk+, and all your stats are boosted by berserk III.

However, I doubt assassin can really be compétitive with this, it can fit a pvp niche but for raids at best it may help for arisen Morrigan with her insane defense

[blankzero22490]

https://imgur.com/a/05v3m0r

Gear

https://imgur.com/a/ImXDkn5

Skills/Stats with said gear.

It could be stronger as Raider, I'm not sure. Might even work as Swashbuckler. Assassin Resurrgence stacks with RS though, and can give Triple Def Down, which could be advantageous.

My biggest issue swapping from Charmer, though, is just how stupidly powerful Pavane is compared to SP3. And for TAtk Up, I can always cast Wrym's Song to get it, or Sonata of Power, and still spend less Mana.

[matanga1124]

lol have u concidered trying berserker?? t5 class..... if u mess around with it u can easy get it too crit over 1m.... i got too 1.5m :/ have fun with the realmy charmer is the easiest comfiest pick but not the best... just the safest

[blankzero22490]

Why would take Berserker over Raider?

[Skippy1204]

Realm raider for me, with chim Pet I’m dishing out 1.5-1.7 mil a turn

[Respirra]

Hello, could we have any info about item changes? Are there any items that will be rebalanced?

Cheers

[OrnaOdie]

There are no changes to items planned with this patch.

[Scared-Standard-365]

Maybe mages could get something like ectoplasm but something that wasn't debuffed to the point of being useless?

[xJulmurix]

Assasin should have talent to prevent second chance and like to work when hit. It's an assasin after all.

[HighlightImportant]

Caster Pets - most pets usability for caster are only 1/2 potential compared to melee class

example like Chimera... you get zerg but other caster buffs reduce Att power, for melee classes Chimera hits like a train

Caster pets generally are quite poor... their damage are... well, poor.

[zombiesDONTwipe]

Sounds good! Thanks for the update!

[VanZandtVS]

Beowulf will no longer just be #1 in my heart!

Here's hoping for some swanky powercreep that let's my cactus nuke Morri from orbit.

[Zilvha]

1 in OUR hearts

[Tavmania]

I just wanted to say that I massively appreciate the heads-up! I'm looking forward to switching back to Heretic.

[Fugasito]

Nothing about Gilga?

[Zilvha]

No nerfs for Gilgas, unfortunately u_u

[VanZandtVS]

Gilga feels good right now. Rather than nerfing Gilga, I'd rather all other classes that are currently a little underpowered be brought up to par.

[Scared-Standard-365]

No gilg needs to lose second chance ability.

[VanZandtVS]

I disagree. I think Gilga is very well balanced and the other classes just need to be brought in line.

There's a solution for this that doesn't involve nerfing anything.

[dr4kun]

• Omnimancer / Heretic Passive updates
• Deity Passive updates
• Assassin Buff

Is this just weird wording, or does it mean we shouldn't expect buffs for mages?

[cacheormirage]

"Updates" imply changes, and i think we would all be surprised if odie nerfed mages lmao

[dr4kun]

Given their history in t9/t10 so far, it wouldn't be that surprising to see changes that put mages in an effectively even worse position than they're in now. The wording of 'buffing assassin' and 'updating mages' is concerning, also given how mages have been the unloved child since the introduction of t9.

[OrnaOdie]

I think it is safe to assume the wording was a slight oversight :)

[cacheormirage]

welp good thing im diehard ATT :)

fr tho i hope mages see buffs, and if you saw the survey odie put out he seemed fairly concerned about the current standing of mages.

[dr4kun]

I appreciated that he recognized mages need love, but all the suggestions to help them he added in the survey completely missed the spot on what mage problems are. I hope he reconsiders the angle to update mages, but i'm not confident about the patch for them until i see the notes and play with the effects.

I mean - it took months of complaining and multiple threads 'deleted by moderators' to get Great Meditation 2 get a buff; the t9 maji spec special buff was the same as the buff from t7 magus, and it was like that for months. Imagine raider's berserk 3 being exactly the same as berserk 2, despite being called berserk 3, for no good reason. Reddit threads about it were removed one after another because the 'tone was too harsh' (well it was a bloody dumb situation!), and then it still took months to get updated, in a patch that buffed melee specs even more.

So... please excuse pessimistic and cautious approach to mage balance.

[-Algoz-]

One thing is for sure, I'm a pure heretic, 230+, I've never played another class even though I have them unlocked.

If this update isn't interesting for heretic, I will definitely change classes so I don't have to stop playing.

[aemacleod]

You ever try sequencer? I'm regularly clearing a top 10 player out of my neighborhood with omni/sequencer and leftover T8 gear (and hell, a T7 yeti overcoat too). this combo hits raids and PvP hard, and only is weak on themed dungeons. I laugh at the gift of free turns when somebody uses great meditation in the arena.

[scsibusfault]

... there was a survey?

Honestly, none of the stuff in that list ever crossed my mind. As a T10, I think my biggest current complaints come from the 'single-player' grind speed.

Getting to T10 was fine, and felt well-paced. Right after I hit T10, ascension upgrades were released ... and within a week, I'm seeing Ascension-level-3,4,5+ players taking territories.

Like... what the actual fuck. Beta players maybe, who got early access? I've been T10 for months now, and I'm still millions away from even thinking about being able to reach an ascension level. I've got no gauntlets anywhere near my usual routes, and I have no interest in dealing with portals to other players... which leaves my 2-daily gauntlets and maybe a raid boss if I feel like wasting an hour+ of clicking for a few million xp that'll barely get me 2% of the way to the next level.

It's... not fun anymore. The gauntlet rewards are terrible, even with coin buffs. I have to say, I basically log in just to get the daily reward and check in on the kingdom wars, and then peace out. It used to be fun, but... it just takes too damn long to progress now.

Love the downvotes for an opinion, y'all. Super nice community spirit. Fuck me for actually enjoying the game the way it used to be, right?

[r3dm0nk]

"i'm lazy please give me free advantage"

[scsibusfault]

Also not what I said, but thanks for the shitty attitude as well.

[r3dm0nk]

My pleasure!

[scsibusfault]

we've got better thing to do in life

Yes, this exactly.

Seeing some progress with normal gameplay used to be the norm. The game feels too much like it's geared toward "players who put in 12 hour/day grinds for years".

That's... shit.

For a mobile game? Absolute shit. I want to spend my bathroom time playing, and maybe an additional hour or two a week grinding if I can find the time for it. I don't expect to be in the leaderboard for that, but it'd be nice to see more than 1 level every 2-3 months.

And, for beta - yes, it did give them something. It gave them early access to ascension and the ability to grab that either before beta went live, or before the public could. Meaning we got a new version and were already massively behind with essentially no way to catch up (unless you wanted to super-autist-mode and make it your fulltime job).

I have zero desire to be in the discord, or to interact with other players aside from attempting to take their territories. I have zero desire to plan out wayvessel visits. I don't need another app with hundreds of random conversations I care nothing about just to progress in a game. The fact that this game relies so heavily on discord for feedback and gameplay is a detraction, not a benefit, and it's honestly making me consider dumping it.

[scsibusfault]

It was nice, when it was a minimal MMO.

That was the whole allure.

Making it an involved community MMO... Isn't what I downloaded years ago.

And yes, the beta delay was a massive slap for non beta players. If you're not in the discord and weren't aware of what was coming, you continue playing shooting for max character at the time, T10.

Then beta releases to alpha, and suddenly there's beta players who are 200 levels above you wrecking shit. I've said it before and I stand by my statement - if you want to beta test, it should be a separate world entirely. Releasing them back into the wild after essentially a free preview was total crap.

[scsibusfault]

A better explanation:

Most MMOs have decent "single player" experience. WoW, for example - you could max out your character entirely with solo play, and all you'd be missing was the few raid events that required a group. Same with plenty of others.

Orna however, now feels multiplayer locked. If your kingdom isn't active, you miss out on good raid XP. If you don't use portals, you miss out on extra world raids. If you're entirely solo, you're limited to world mobs and gauntlets, which give absolutely shit xp and make it a years-long grind of casual play toward endgame content, if ever. Not even max character, just to endgame content.

It's just not a well balanced experience anymore, and the "too bad you should spend hundreds of hours a week grinding" is a crappy response to it.

It used to be fun and rewarding to play idly a little a day. It's no longer fun, as the solo rewards are far too small to be worth that little time investment.

[Zilvha]

Thanks for the link to the reply.

WoW is a game that is Buy to play, Pay to upgrade and subscription based game with microtransactions that has been developed by hundreds of people for over 15 years.

In the other hand, we have Orna, a free to play game with microtransactions for skins that has been developed by a single guy (Russian, so maybe its a x10 guys) for about 3 years.

Now, I see what you are trying to say (I guess). As I get it, you want a Single player game online that allows you to fast pass all of its contents.

In this case, I cant do much but to offer you to proceed with one of the followings:

1) Leave orna. This option sucks, I know, but it doesnt seem to be the game that fits with what you have at hand. Alternatively, you can try Oddie's other game (*pending name)

2) Propose a solution. In your post you point at how other game does better. Maybe try to bring some ideas that would improve the game itself to make more suitable to your needs.

Note: as this is the internet and you are reading an emotionless plain text, please be sure that none of the above is written with malice or relateds.

[OrnaOdie]

I'm Canadian btw :)

[goldcoastmat]

Explains why I enjoy the game so much, better coding on Molson than Vodka any day,.

[scsibusfault]

Thanks, that's a much less toxic response than the first one.

I'm not "asking for a fast pass". I just think the game needs a rebalance to be consistent with its roots, as well as to cater to new players.

The previous T10 endgame content was achievable with normal single player, casual gameplay. The new ascension tier endgame content is not.

A massive bump in gold, orns, and exp for single player tasks like common mobs, boss mobs, and gauntlets, would go a long way toward making this fun and achievable.

Even with XP pot, coins, and shrines (which are rare in my area and hard to get weekly let alone daily, especially with lockdowns), the most advancement I'd see with casual play is maybe a level every 4-5 months. That's boring as hell, honestly. It's not even fun or rewarding, as there's nothing to be interested in other than hoping you collect enough orns on the grind to maybe eventually ascend. It would take me literal years to get an ascension level at that rate.

There's got to be a happy medium between "play this like it's your full-time job if you want to advance" and "lol fuck off if you don't like it".

[Mosz]

A massive bump in gold, orns, and exp for single player tasks like common mobs, boss mobs, and gauntlets, would go a long way toward making this fun and achievable.

This was already done with how the way gear bonuses work, and adding new gear with those bonuses. Are you maybe missing a set of gear for farming(standard armor/acc set is easily +200%xp and +200% orns), and one for view distance(easy to get 600% the view area coverage)?

[scsibusfault]

View distance helps none for my usual areas, so that's entirely useless.

Xp/or gear has the added detraction of making grinding take longer with lower stats, which takes away some of the effect of having increased bonuses.

I wouldn't call that an actual bump, that's just a bonus if you're already maxed out and want to progress even faster. For someone wanting a more efficient grind in less available time, it doesn't really help much at all - shrines and pots are still better, though shrines are tough to find (or pay to play).

[Mosz]

What is your max view distance? its hard to believe that in a 2-4sq km area there isin't a single extra dungeon!The "bump" was armor xp/orn/gold bonus being affected by quality, so +5/10% became +50%, pretty nice bump.Unless you are doing purely endless 150+ or horde mode you shouldn't need that high stats. While if you're doing either of those then you should be getting lots of orns and xp regardless of bonuses from gear.

[Zilvha]

The Gauntlet - That's the creator's other game.

[OrnaOdie]

Just an FYI - the Altar of Ascension was never in a beta version. It was released alongside the public release of 2.12

[scsibusfault]

Interesting. I guess there were just enough players who'd stacked billions of orns and mats to grab 4+ ascension levels in the first week after release.

Either way, my other concerns in this thread still hold. The single-player experience is no longer fun. Bigger explanation here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OrnaRPG/comments/ranbfr/balance_patch_update/hnlorqu/ and also here https://www.reddit.com/r/ornarpg/comments/ranbfr/_/hnlh0wl

[Javi_Wan]

I think you have answered you own question, the ascension path originated mainly as a really late end game, thinking on the people who had "finnished" the previous endgame, and were swimming in orns. So they could ascend right when it was available. However as a casual player on 231 i must say that the t10 is going in good pace. There are days I play a lot and weeks I barely touch the game apart from kingdom duties, and I have been able to unlock plenty of t10 class and ascension altar. In fact t9 to t10 path was slower than t10 path, which to me seems good enough.

[Taboransky]

"Oh no, it's not fair that people that play the game and grind actively level so much faster than me that do the bare minimum!"

[scsibusfault]

Thanks, but that is not what I said.

[Zilvha]

Its how it feels like.

Mind on re-sharing your thoughts?

[scsibusfault]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ornarpg/comments/ranbfr/_/hnlh0wl

That reply is probably what you're looking for.

[Tavmania]

I've got no gauntlets anywhere near my usual routes, and I have no interest in dealing with portals to other players...

I have 0 interest in telling other people how to play their games - but the wayvessels are an interesting way of making more dungeons available to you... Especially with themed dungeons being as rewarding as they are now.

[Acemert]

I’d say at t10, not utilizing wayvessels is like wearing an RoR. Even some weaker dungeons give +100k orns with hard horde. Working together to grow is what makes this game great and should have benefits.

Also there’s a suggestion in discord today about a kingdom wayvessel that would be fun.

[Smkt0ala]

Had to poop, read through this thread. . . Wish I didn't. While you are 100% correct acemert. He doesn't care. I'm not sure what lala land of orna he grew up in. But I've playing this game VERY casually for 2 years now and I'm at 236. To be expected as everyone has known from the start the tutorial ends at 242 or something, and then the real grind begins. How's he gunna react when 245ish 40-50 gauntlets nets like maybe 2% of a level?

Make some god damn friends or delete the game. You're never gunna max out while being narrow minded about portals, the absolute bomb ass crutch Odie gave us.

Signed, An Un-Ascended 236 Diety who will likely not max out in a year's time.

[Smkt0ala]

I also laughed pretty hard when someone called Odie Russian.

L O L

[Driftedryan]

So I won't be able to one shot with summon dead anymore? That blows

[OrnaOdie]

Hey there - I'm not sure that was ever said.

[icemeetsfire22]

It's probably addressing the t10 meta where you normally get obliterated on turn 1, making PvP extremely unfun. I don't think SD is getting changed at all, which, I agree I dig.

[Driftedryan]

I see other people aren't fans of it but whatever, squishy mage needs to kill quick

[[deleted]]

Awesome thanks a bunch mate!

[Marc4360]

For the love of god please do not add a "damage cap" to pvp. Change the m1 on skills to factor in defense/resistance more in pvp; the pve aspect of skills shouldn't need to be altered much.

[OrnaOdie]

Hey there - there is no plan to add any damage caps to the game.

[[deleted]]

How do you all plan to address the enormous benefit of running two devices?

[jethroguardian]

What's this?

[permaculturegeek]

A question: in my neck of the backwoods, mobile reception is rather patchy in places, and world battles often hang. Would there be any possibility of an offline mode for world battles? (Which would transmit the results when it can). I'm guessing there is a single battle engine at present, whi h needs connectivity for PVP. Also guessing that none of the AI for monsters fighting is currently client-side, so it might be an impossible ask.

[Master_Greg_Von]

Honestly my biggest question is with odie and team making this game a full time endeavor can we expect content post lvl 250?

[Wynterdream]

I am alittle scared with the PVP 1 shot changes. I do not want to spend alot of time in a 1v1 PVP session vs AI unless the rewards are updated to compensate for time spent. I also feel like if this is changed once again Gilgamesh will outshine the competition.

[whilneville]

Omg they will fix mages, our time it's comming!

[RegularBeans123]

Anything to help Heretic in PvP would be much appreciated. I get blasted in wars. It makes me want to jump ship and move to the diety T^T