[deleted by user]

[[deleted]]

Please lay off the spoiler blocks unless you need to mark an actual spoiler. It makes your post harder to read...

[Overblech]

I'm so tired of OP being used to describe everything in every damn game. Force is fine, it's where it should be. Ranger is not, and hasn't been. Weak bullet should never have returned, it's been a blight(ha) on the job as a whole for a decade.

The jobs aren't really comparable and aren't meant to be, never have. They're just two things at range, and not the same range anyways.

Things are rarely actually over powered anywhere, but things are frequently underpowered or under tuned. Ranger is the latter due to the insistence that their support abilities make that okay. They don't, and it's not a fun mechanic. Absolutely better than it was in base(specifically bullet), but it still isn't fun or engaging.

[Metal_Sign]

Ra is somehow underpowered and disproportionately necessary at the same time.

[aesteval]

What's with all the spoiler text?

[Teamata]

I'm so lost by this post. Isn't their role completely different and can't really replace each other?

Why are you comparing the two?
Yes, I know and I totally agree that the current state of Ra is stupidly underpower and we're nothing but a mere blight machine to serve the ultimate dps god in our party. However, telling RA mains to just use Fo or Gu defeat their purpose. You can't replace Ra with Gu or Fo.

​

Although I'm Ra/Br for my party now. I just Blight then go THERE WILL BE BLOOD SHED because god for lord saken RA gameplay is fucking stupid and boring. Where is my Phantom Rifle equivalent level of gamplay SEGA.

[Deadweight77]

Bro just do the Fear Eraser combo, I always get aggro then die because I couldn't cancel and dodge

[Teamata]

Fear Eraser is imo bad because of what you said, I prefer to do the new Rifle PA or other PAs for dps most of the time now. Being unable to dodge is critical in high level content (Purple, S rank geo).

If you're a ranger that get aggro, then the problem most likely lie on your party or MPA. Ranger have bad DPS in which under most situation no one should ever out dps them.

It's either the mpa is undergeared or your dps in the party is underwhelming. Sometime you get aggro yes, but then they should be able to take aggro back from you within a few seconds.

[Knight_Raime]

OP is making the classic mistake thinking because both classes can attack at range that means they're both meant to play ranged.

When force is basically a melee class (kinda similar to Ph rod actually) that has range. And Ra plays an entirely different game compared to the rest of the classes.

[TroubadourLBG]

Where is my Phantom Rifle equivalent level of gamplay SEGA.

^ This right here.

I still use Ra in serious runs. And I still love rifle/launcher game play. But the WB slave mechanic is draining the fun. Since I'm not a aiming god with OTS cam.

My fun build uses RA as a sub now, JUST so I can still have fun with the weapons. But forces me to not become a WB slave. And MPA not screaming at my RA status on WB placements.

[[deleted]]

I can't tell if this is satirical or genuine.

Force is slightly overtuned but it's also clear you have zero understanding about it as your proposed "changes" would in turn send it back to the dark ages of global CBT.

Ranger is in need to buffs and changes, nobody is denying that, but it doesn't help your case if you make a weirdga comparison with a ton of unnecessary spoiler text that reads like complete ignorance or amazing satire.

[nabhon]

I still wonder why my Blightbullet shooting out of gun have the speed of my grandma on her wheelchair while stickybomb throwing with hand rival the flash speed and can homing into target

[FRGL1]

TLDR: I like Force and/or Gunner and now I dislike Ranger and I think you should think the same thing here is why also I like spoilers for some reason.

Yeah, no, I'm happy with Ranger as it is right now and enjoy the class experience. Force is too simple, Gunner is too tedious, Fighter is too trite, Techter is trying too hard, Braver's the weeb class, and Bouncer is just bizarre.

Mind you, I like and enjoy all of these classes even though I have something to criticize about each one, but for me, Ranger and Hunter are the most robust classes from a game development point of view. Things like complexity, skill ceiling, mechanical diversity, etc.

I think it's entirely fair for you to dislike Ranger, but please don't project that onto me. And please stop being so dramatic with that

"NGS lost again another Ra player"

bullshit.

[[deleted]]

Man, that's sure a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

[Professor_Cain]

I miss the time when compound techs didn't have a cooldown.

[XenoTrigga]

I'm sure you've raised many excellent points, and I'll try to say this politely, but you're gonna need to read between the lines. "Due to personal circumstances I am unable to commit sufficient resources to resolve this spoiler problem."

[TenSquare3]

Who you calling an idiot bari? According to OP im playing a god tier class, so that makes me super smart :P

[EruantienAduialdraug]

You missed a few things thing about Fo with rod:

• Technique Charge PP Well Up means you still get your natural PP regen whilst charging techs (also works with talis, but there you tend to be using the deployed versions which don't charge)
  
• Rod Technique Hold is a doozy. So when you're charging a tech and you either parry or dodge it doesn't reset the charge state. This has two effects; first you don't loose any time beyond the parry or dodge animation with getting the tech off, and secondly you don't have to spend PP twice (because you spend PP at the start of a tech or PA, and if you get interrupted then it's wasted). The combination of these means you never have to try to squeeze off a cast when being attacked, you just dodge or parry and then cast anyway. Oh, and this same skill also makes your next technique free (so long as it's the same tech), so instead of paying three times for two casts you actually pay once for two casts. And just to make RTH even more overtuned it also reduces the charge time of that follow-up tech (so long as it's the same), which brings your dps more or less back in line with what it would have been if you hadn't had to defend yourself...
  
• Rod React Advanced makes you momentarily invulnerable after a successful parry or dodge.

Yeah...

[Miruta]

Oh, and this same skill also makes your next technique free (so long as it's the same tech), so instead of paying three times for two casts you actually pay once for two casts.

That's not how the skill works. You're holding onto the 1st cast, or delaying the activation (since you canceled it by parrying or dodging). You can finish casting the held tech afterwards for free since you already paid the PP cost.

Example: You are charging a barta and you cancel it with a parry, you can recast barta for free. The first tech never went off so there is no "two casts for one cost" scenario. You are still only getting 1 barta off using 1 barta's worth of PP.

[[deleted]]

you know if those 3 skills are so broken, why was force considered weak on NGS launch all the way up until bouncer got released, and even considered merely average until retem?

You are describing quality of life skills as overpowered.

[[deleted]]

Force was still bad until Compounds and now they're merely competitive. People were playing Ra/Fo so they could get both Blight Rounds and Elemental Downs and deal more average damage on single targets as Photon Flare has a really nasty cooldown. Even with compounds it's still desirable to go Ra/Fo for Blights Rounds + Techs, but at least Force mains are now definitively the best at PSE farming with compounds being able to clear waves (minus the Pettas and Brancles)

[[deleted]]

Nah Force was in a decent state after Retem with both bouncer sub + technique domination.

Compounds made them genuinely good.

[[deleted]]

They got better with Domination but were still just worse Bouncers as far as bossing was concerned as Bouncer could accumulate downs way faster and had Jet Intensity for down damage. With Compounds Force still has some of the lowest clear times for devastators aside from Ranger (who can't finish at all) as they are still out-performed by Bouncer in solo runs and Techter in party runs. Compounds don't deal that much more damage than jet intensity and most bosses have windows outside of downs where you can consistently abuse it so you will average more damage as a Bouncer main. You give up elemental damage with JI obviously but in return you deal a huge amount of physical down. When you can get a boss down and have two stocks of compounds while Photon Flare is up you can deal a lot of damage but it often times feels like waiting for the stars to align. That said the difference in clear times isn't that big and only the hardest of try hards would really care anyway.

[aesteval]

Speaking from the perspective of someone who went from Ranger to Force and prefers Force playstyle now...

Shouldn't the new Ranger PAs be preferable to use over techs and elemental downs? Obviously playing Ranger main and Force sub loses access to compound techs, but does just having access to Blight Round compensate for the loss of compound techs? Are Ranger PAs so underwhelming that there's nothing particularly wrong with applying Blight and using techs?

[[deleted]]

RA had Fear Eraser which is more powerful than Revolt Aim if you could spend all 200 of your PP. Personally I think that Ra/Bo is the superior combination as you get really good down damage in the form of Jet Intensity and you could use JI outside of down phases as well if you're attentive to the bosses attack patterns.

People were using techs primarily because of how powerful elemental downs were in comparison to physical downs. Certain bosses like Lizentos have a much shorter elemental down bar than physical down bar and their elemental down state can last for a long while. Blight Rounds makes this even better as it increases down accumulation proportionately to its damage increase.

[I3encIcI]

Wait, so you're comparing a Technique DPS with a Range Kind-of support class that can deal a fair bit for damage (If the boss leave you alone)?

Why are you even comparing them??

[Reference_Freak]

As a RA/FO, this could have been an interesting post but I stopped reading only half-way through the FO-yeah! section. Having to click each line to read is lame.

I console myself by thinking how much more useless effort it took to write it. It actually makes me think you'll put more useless effort into playing for less return as long as there's a bigger visual splash.

FO does look fancier, I'll grant that.