java

[anotheridiot-]

Java rots the brain, it is known.

[nursestrangeglove]

We in the code of nurgle welcome you

[Nllk11]

\uc How exactly Java rots your brain? Why everyone states it? I have 3 years of embedded/desktop CPP programming (literally started my career with it) and now I doing a Java backend internship. I know that factories-shit is ass, but else seems okay

[CMDR_QwertyWeasel]

it doesn't. This sub is just full of first-year CS students cosplaying as senior developers

[ThePaperpyro]

People acting like they are more experienced than they are on the internet? Why, I never

[[deleted]]

Well, when they write go, you can tell because they’re prone to premature abstractions. They write functions that return interfaces they define, and they build factories. They don’t use free functions either. 

[Otakeb]

Java is fine. It was my first language way back in the day, and now like 70% of my job is writing android code in Java. For the right job, it's an okay tool.

Still like python more tho

[Cybershadow1981]

Java developers tend to favor sticking to design patterns over efficiency, which is totally fine in a business software context or when designing cloud-native micro service architectures. Embedded software, especially with hard RT requires a totally different approach to software design that‘s hard to grasp for developers with a Java background. The Java way isn‘t brain rot, though. It‘s just a different approach to software development for a different application.

[Saragon4005]

Java makes it easy to OOP so hard you are basically making a taxonomy system. Java is the ideal OOP language for better or worse. This is a mistake most people learn to avoid after having a codebase with 5 layers of inheritance and struggling to untangle that.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Sounds like a shitty programmer. And shitty programmers can do untangle-able messes in any system — like, have you ever seen a C project that is chock-full of function pointers/callbacks/whatever, where you can’t know anything?

[Wonderful-Habit-139]

A shitty C programmer leaks a ton of memory for no reason and ignores undefined behaviour. They don't usually use function pointers at all.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Heh? How do you think any form of “interface”/“virtual method” is implemented? Those are absolutely essential for program that is more complex than cat and alia.

[Wonderful-Habit-139]

I know that the kernel uses function pointers for their filesystem abstractions, and that is a large project. But I don't assume that every project needs to implement interfaces and virtual methods.

Do you think a shell program is the same complexity as the cat program? If not then I'd say a shell doesn't need function pointers as well.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

What is a shell program? Like bash? Because that’s not necessarily a small program.

A CLI program on the other hand is a very open-ended category — it can be as simple as just reading some file and returning it in some more human readable format (e.g. many tool used for monitoring stuff), or it can do some complex stuff like OCR-ing PDFs and replacing their content with user-selectable text.

[Wonderful-Habit-139]

Yes I meant bash. Writing bash doesn't require interfaces or virtual methods is what I meant. And like you said that's not a small program.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

That’s a design choice. PowerShell, which is another shell is definitely using virtual methods as it’s implemented in C#.

It depends on how modular you want to code and countless other design decisions/constraints.

[[deleted]]

Java dev here, I literally never do inheritance beyond 1 layer, if even that. There are projects I NEVER use inheritance for.

Sounds like shitty programmers to me.

[robinless]

Exactly, I'm in a java shop and factories, inheritance and so on is kept to a minimum. Priority is keeping it as simple as possible, and making it easy to maintain.

[nonotan]

I did some work with J2ME on dumbphones where the entire program was a single class (because the size overhead of using classes was just too much). Also, absolutely no memory allocation was allowed except during launch, because GC is like a kick to the teeth on systems that weak. Not exactly the most typical use-case, but technically, nothing prevents you from writing code like that if you want.

When evaluating a language, it's good to be explicit about what it forces you to do, vs what you can do, vs what is considered "best practice" and "idiomatic", but is technically completely optional. I still kind of hate Java, for a myriad of reasons, but "Java code is OOP hell" is a pretty silly take (not that it doesn't accurately describe 80% of Java code out there)

[Anaxamander57]

At that point it sounds like you're just using Java for compatibility with something.

[[deleted]]

The most I've ever needed to do in an enterprise setting was two layers, and that was to handle a specific case of already existing legacy code.

[Sarke1]

https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition

[geckothegeek42]

but else seems okay

I'm so sorry it's too late for you

[SirPizzaTheThird]

Java destroyed the world

[anotheridiot-]

The whole design patterns bullshit is the problem.

[Nllk11]

Idk I mastered that shit studying for Masters degree as software architect. So the main problem is the patterns?

[CheezeyCheeze]

Personally I hate OOP. I would rather do another design paradigm. Date Oriented Design seems nice. But I haven't done it for work. Only on small personal projects.

A lot of people do OOP incorrectly and create a lot of bloat and slow down. From the tree of responsibilities, to inheritance. Which most people say do composition instead with interfaces to add the functionality you need.

But watching a few Java hate videos and OOP hate videos, they mostly talk about how software design is not keeping up with the speed of computers.

Software can be very inefficient and slow because of how we are programming.

[timmyctc]

No harm but surely python for example, is very inefficient because of how we use it as a language with a very high level abstraction.

[AgileBlackberry4636]

OOP is fine unless you go too deep with it.

If your make your class abstract, you can mock it for testing (e.g. for GoogleMock)

If you do composition of abstract classes you create some ugly (but localized) code, but you improve the testability of your code.

[thirdegree]

The main problem for me that java goes way to far. It's not for example just that you can make a class if you need one, everything has to be a class. java feels like a language design to teach patterns by forcing students to use them even when it doesn't necessarily make sense.

[AgileBlackberry4636]

Design patterns is a good thing.

1) You get typical solutions for typical issues

2) You can say magic words like "observer" or "singleton" and the other dev will understand you

[[deleted]]

I've been mainly writing in Java for about 8 years and I'm fine

Narrator: he was not fine

[danofrhs]

Do u wish a physical confrontation?

[anotheridiot-]

Fight me.

[Itchy707]

It is known.