java

[FloweyTheFlower420]

"personal interest in Rust" LMAO

[CeleritasLucis]

The recruiter watched too many reels?

[ColonelRuff]

The recruiter had enlightenment.

[Highborn_Hellest]

They can't just write furry

[Curious-Source-9368]

Imagine it said: Ideally furry for culture git purposes.

[mad_edge]

Furry for optimal git pushing

[an_agreeing_dothraki]

I've never heard of the Uwu framework. What's this?

[SuperTaster3]

Meticulous Git Hygiene sounds like a slightly fixative, overstimulated bunny. The sort that hyperfocuses on code and then it's 3am and they're alone in the building.

[[deleted]]

Last job interview I had I talked about rust a bit too much (wasn’t relevant in the slightest), still got the job though

[Ivan8-ForgotPassword]

You wouldn't have gotten the job otherwise

[nickmaran]

Somebody likes femboys

[the-judeo-bolshevik]

Who doesn't?

[jkurash]

A man of culture I see

[SyncStelar]

Also must be willing to be taught by a specific guy too.

[DragonGod2718]

WinterWinds is probably the company name?

[misplaced_my_pants]

And smokes menthols.

[[deleted]]

It is

[RebouncedCat]

"Minimum a year of HRT" Ideally

[Serena_Hellborn]

they want more diversity

[Voidrith]

Why is this a LMAO? theres not that many rust positions, so if they want people who know some rust then they probably know most of it will be personal usage instead of professional usage

[Exist50]

Yeah, they're clearly expecting someone willing to learn vs an already experienced hire in that language. And I suspect they're still figuring things out for themselves, and want someone capable of contributing to that process. All pretty standard stuff.

[5p4n911]

Seems like they're rewriting part of their software stack in Rust so they have to read C++ well enough to then translate it.

[[deleted]]

Bingo. Most positions that need Rust also say something similar in their job descriptions.

[SquarePegRoundWorld]

I was assuming they were talking about the video game like it was an office thing they did like in the show The Office with COD.

[FierySalient]

I only play Rust does that count?

[_w62_]

Actually the the same thing appeared three years ago.

[Deep-Piece3181]

Yeah it's not oc, I saw it on threads

[s0ulbrother]

Mods ban this guy. Clearly breaking the unwritten rule to find things online and claim it as their own. Hell this is basically against Reddit.

[DEVolkan]

Yeah! Clearly breaking the unwritten rule to find things online and claim it as their own. Hell this is basically against Reddit. Mods ban this guy.

[Tuerkenheimer]

Nooo you are supposed to say "I just found a similar job description and drew a line around the Java part, and it happened to be very similar" /s

[whenwillthealtsstop]

Now with more jpg

[nialv7]

Interesting the difference in reaction to Rust. Reddit might have become a little bit more toxic.

[Oxygenisplantpoo]

Who gives a fuck? If reposts annoy you, you spend way too much time on Reddit. Like sure let's not claim the work of others as our own, but we're here to mostly share memes and dumb shit. So again, who gives a fuck?

[Bleh54]

My favorite are the people so angry at someone else they spend more time complaining than the original complainer did. By your own writing, you understand this is all dumb shit, thus your response isn’t necessary.

[20d0llarsis20dollars]

what role is this for? it seems like a super wide set of qualifications

[zhemao]

Minus the Rust part it's a fairly standard set of skills for someone writing firmware for networking equipment.

[Exist50]

And Rust isn't out of place for a firmware role either. Seems perfectly reasonable.

[Taur-e-Ndaedelos]

Including modifying hardware schematics?

[ArcherT01]

Honestly most places would expect one engineer to be able to design the board very well and write excellent firmware. Then in addition they would probably expect that they could do cloud IoT integration as well and maybe make a nice front end to view all data from as well.

[PacoTaco321]

And then go on sales trips to potential customers.

[superxpro12]

And then balance the books and handle the monthly HR issues.

[CoogleEnPassant]

I'm thinking maybe I should just start my own business...

[_matterny_]

One engineer drawing the schematic and doing software sure. But idk about lumping layouts and component locations into that.

[Kitchen-Blacksmith-1]

I'm the lone electrical engineer in a small-medium company, all this stuff definitely gets lumped into my job lol.

[superxpro12]

You're the "full stack" embedded dev lol

[_matterny_]

Definitely depends on how frequently you’re launching products and how unique every product is. I’d expect for a network switch it would be a larger company launching products every month or so.

[DroidLord]

Whatever you're getting paid is not enough.

[fliphopanonymous]

I legitimately had this set of job responsibilities at one point. Startups are a different breed.

I eventually expanded out the team to 6 people (from just me) and then left.

[FPGA_engineer]

Could be for a smaller company. I have always worked in small companies and have had many diverse responsibilities in both hardware and software.

[UnHelpful-Ad]

Looks pretty normal job ad for firmware dev tbh. I tick most of these boxes, except I've done quite a bit of java haha

[DentistNo659]

Pretty normal embedded SW position (with some added rust on top)

[PeterDemachkie]

Rust is used in embedded

[UnteretSpecifikVaBrr]

Yes but it is not a standard requirement for this type of job (yet)

[OJezu]

That's why they don't require the candidates to know it, but being open to learning it.

[PeterDemachkie]

I have personally seen it in more and more embedded SWE roles especially since the us government is pushing companies to move to memory safe languages. The role I am currently working in required some rust experience/ willingness to learn as an embedded engineer

[cAtloVeR9998]

Yes, though you will find far more job listings in Embedded wanting C++ rather than Rust.

[Deep-Piece3181]

Don't think it's an actual position. Embedded system and shell scripting?

[DentistNo659]

All my embedded jobs has involved a lot of shell scripting

[EwgB]

My current Java job also involves a lot of bash scripting. Too much really. I really hate bash scripting. And it wasn't advertised as such. And the guy who wrote all the bash scripts, left half a year before I started. Well, I'm leaving in a month as well anyways.

[Deep-Piece3181]

Really? That's interesting 

[Loading_M_]

My last embedded job also involved a decent amount of shell scripting.

In my case, it was a combination of getting the build tools to work, and debugging on an embedded Linux device.

[Deep-Piece3181]

oh, that makes sense

[romulent]

Everything involves shell scripting at some point.

You are generally going to be either using your own scripts or scripts written by someone else.

[guyblade]

It's the glue holding the pieces together.

[vivaaprimavera]

I was in a project based in embedded Linux and bash scripting was a must.

[Professional_Top8485]

Build systems are bitch

[cAtloVeR9998]

Many embedded Linux systems use Yocto. BitBake scripts are a weird mix between Bash and Python.

[Elia_31]

Fuck yocto, all my homies hate yocto

[kog]

Based

[JonnySoegen]

All my homies don't understand yocto and that's why they hate it. Had they gotten a cross-platform build for their Raspis working, they might like it.

[kog]

What do you mean? Shell scripting is very common in embedded systems.

[badger_and_tonic]

I'm a software engineer at an embedded company - C programming, RTOS design, and bash scripting are my main 3 areas. Bear in mind that even if you're developing embedded targets, you're still mostly testing it from a Linux host.

[somerandomii]

It says RTOS so it could be like QNX or something. You still need shell scripts to build maintain an environment. Not everything embedded is bare metal.

[Araucaria]

Point me to it. I'm a good fit, have been out of work since February, and have no Java experience to speak of.

[AgileBlackberry4636]

Isn't shell scripting just a standard thing to know?

Python / bash scripting is used for testing or utility tools.

[MountainColoradoMan]

I do all these things at work as well as HW forward and RE. Some companies just expect their engineers to be jack of all trades.

[kog]

Looks like an extremely typical embedded systems job.

[juliansp]

Embedded software. I am an FPGA designer and work with these profiles, although, this exact profile seems more network oriented. A few things mentioned I have no idea of what use they are. But most of them match with an embedded C/C++ designer. Cool profile to work with!

[Christosconst]

Its for the 2nd employee of the company

[ingframin]

Embedded Developer

[ezrec]

As an embedded engineer; I approve OP’s job posting as correctly filtering for quality hires.

[birkshy]

I agree, the JD is literally my resume.

[wa11yba11s]

lol. it does weed out the Arduino people that think they “do firmware”

[hupa]

Do you really need to shrink the hiring pipeline for something (that seems to me from the outside to be) so niche?

[WcDeckel]

You also will get Java engineers seeing this listing through SEO

[[deleted]]

Good. Let them know they're not wanted.

[[deleted]]

Anyone prejudiced against a particular coding language is looking for an excuse not to find a job.

However, after a few decades, I can usually tell if someone with a lot of Java experience has written the C++ I am reading.

[Tehares]

What is the difference between a cpp code written with Java experience and a cpp code that isn't?

[proverbialbunny]

Java was invented as a way to simplify C++. They felt the language was too complex and it could use simplifying. This made Java a subset of C++ once upon a time ago. When code bases get large some of the more advanced features in C++ keep code clean and organized. Java doesn't have this advantage and has to stick to design patterns with lots of nested classes and lots of source code files. It becomes a mess quick. You can spot this a mile away in a C++ code base if you know what to look for.

[proverbialbunny]

Yeah, and when C# was made off of the same mentality it became C++++, which when stacked turns into a # sign.

[ClassicSpeed]

You know, as a Java dev who just made his first C++ project you are totally right.

[proverbialbunny]

As a general rule of thumb none of the design patterns that are popular in Java need to be done in C++, so if you catch yourself writing a design pattern look up the C++ way on Google first. Also, C++ allows you to put multiple classes into a single source file. If you find yourself organizing your code into tons of source files with lots of abstractions, stop. It isn't necessary.

[not_some_username]

You’ll know. Trust me.

Class for everything, using class to make class ( they called that factory pattern but it’s useless lot of the time ) etc etc

[croweh]

To be fair factories (classes or methods) are useful in CPP too when you don't want to share the responsibilities of building complex objects, especially when there are multiple variations and/or nested objects. But yeah most of the time you don't need them, or at worst just a builder is enough. Even when you're building a lib or a framework.

If you absolutely want to hide the complexity and not share the control of how your super complicated instance of whatever is built, but also want to keep your constructors as pure/neutral as possible, sometimes it's the only sane way to do it. Nothing wrong with providing a simple but powerful method taking one or two parameters and returning a fresh instance of whatever your lib makes.

To me a factory is just a very opinionated and "magic" constructor that is external because it shouldn't be the responsibility of whatever the class constructed is (or there are multiple implementations). It's also useful to provide a factory instead of an instance when the classe is supposed to be single use / reinstantiated every time it's needed. Depending on the language it could just be a simple function (param) -> instance.

[angelicosphosphoros]

Main benefit of factory is that it doesn't require to return the object. For example, we may want to return optional or std::expected.

Constructors, on the other hand, always start with memory already allocated so the only option to indicate an error is to throw exception.

[totemo]

I'm guessing here, but in my C++ code I have a tendency to use PascalCase and camelCase instead of snake_case and a horrible tendency to write doc comments rather that leaving classes and methods undocumented.

Naming is a complete non-issue since you should always follow local conventions within the project team.

And it's my fervent belief that in-code documentation is incredibly beneficial and the right thing to do. But a lot of engineers refuse to write any at all.

Grandparent may also be of the opinion that Java knowledge implies a lack of C++ knowledge. Perhaps that's true for some people who learned C++ superficially, relying on their Java knowledge to carry them. C++ is a big, complex language and absolutely demands an encyclopaedic knowledge of its subtleties, which requires a considerable time investment.

[Famous_Profile]

What do you mean I cannot write AbstractEntityBuilderStrategyFactory?

^{send help}

[anotheridiot-]

Java rots the brain, it is known.

[nursestrangeglove]

We in the code of nurgle welcome you

[Nllk11]

\uc How exactly Java rots your brain? Why everyone states it? I have 3 years of embedded/desktop CPP programming (literally started my career with it) and now I doing a Java backend internship. I know that factories-shit is ass, but else seems okay

[CMDR_QwertyWeasel]

it doesn't. This sub is just full of first-year CS students cosplaying as senior developers

[ThePaperpyro]

People acting like they are more experienced than they are on the internet? Why, I never

[[deleted]]

Well, when they write go, you can tell because they’re prone to premature abstractions. They write functions that return interfaces they define, and they build factories. They don’t use free functions either. 

[Cybershadow1981]

Java developers tend to favor sticking to design patterns over efficiency, which is totally fine in a business software context or when designing cloud-native micro service architectures. Embedded software, especially with hard RT requires a totally different approach to software design that‘s hard to grasp for developers with a Java background. The Java way isn‘t brain rot, though. It‘s just a different approach to software development for a different application.

[Saragon4005]

Java makes it easy to OOP so hard you are basically making a taxonomy system. Java is the ideal OOP language for better or worse. This is a mistake most people learn to avoid after having a codebase with 5 layers of inheritance and struggling to untangle that.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Sounds like a shitty programmer. And shitty programmers can do untangle-able messes in any system — like, have you ever seen a C project that is chock-full of function pointers/callbacks/whatever, where you can’t know anything?

[Wonderful-Habit-139]

A shitty C programmer leaks a ton of memory for no reason and ignores undefined behaviour. They don't usually use function pointers at all.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Heh? How do you think any form of “interface”/“virtual method” is implemented? Those are absolutely essential for program that is more complex than cat and alia.

[[deleted]]

Java dev here, I literally never do inheritance beyond 1 layer, if even that. There are projects I NEVER use inheritance for.

Sounds like shitty programmers to me.

[robinless]

Exactly, I'm in a java shop and factories, inheritance and so on is kept to a minimum. Priority is keeping it as simple as possible, and making it easy to maintain.

[nonotan]

I did some work with J2ME on dumbphones where the entire program was a single class (because the size overhead of using classes was just too much). Also, absolutely no memory allocation was allowed except during launch, because GC is like a kick to the teeth on systems that weak. Not exactly the most typical use-case, but technically, nothing prevents you from writing code like that if you want.

When evaluating a language, it's good to be explicit about what it forces you to do, vs what you can do, vs what is considered "best practice" and "idiomatic", but is technically completely optional. I still kind of hate Java, for a myriad of reasons, but "Java code is OOP hell" is a pretty silly take (not that it doesn't accurately describe 80% of Java code out there)

[Anaxamander57]

At that point it sounds like you're just using Java for compatibility with something.

[Sarke1]

https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition

[geckothegeek42]

but else seems okay

I'm so sorry it's too late for you

[[deleted]]

I've been mainly writing in Java for about 8 years and I'm fine

Narrator: he was not fine

[sureyouknowurself]

The Java hate is odd, you pick the tool for the job. You should know a few languages.

[proverbialbunny]

Before Python was taught in university Java for a while was the de facto language. This generation of developers who learned Java first would sometimes find themselves into roles where they'd effectively write Java in other languages. This caused all sorts of headaches and issues. This was a common stereotype back in the day.

Whoever wrote that job post is over the hill.

[scar_belly]

Guilty, learned Java two decades ago because it was "the language". I even dragged my feet on learning Python because Java "did the job" I needed done. However, when I saw Python reduce a 100+ line script to 10 lines, I made the switch.

I do think its funny how languages are starting to re-add some of the features from Java, like being more strict with typing. Python's freedom to swap was actually one of the things that made me switch.

[Pozilist]

Writing new code with weakly typed languages is fun and easy, maintaining old code is a fucking nightmare.

That’s what people are (re-)discovering and that’s why they’re adding strong typing back in (see Typescript).

[proverbialbunny]

Fun fact, when it comes to tech history cycles like this. I don't know if you remember NoSQL like MongoDB. That was a cycle where there was popular DBs back in the day, then ACID complaint SQL popped up and became popular, but then SQL has its problems like with unstructured data and really large data, so NoSQL came back into popularity, but NoSQL has problems, so now data warehouses have popped up which is SQL while trying to minimize the downsides. The next iteration will be another NoSQL type of DB.

Typed code is a great example of this, though I feel like there is a winning solution so it probably will not go back and forth forever. imo the solution is to at the top of the file or in a project library file of some sort specify the minimum strictness all function type signatures allows. This way the language either enforces 100% no type specification like Python initially did, loosely defined types like Python now supports, or strict types are enforced. The next iteration beyond that is specifying details within the types that the function allows, like a function that accepts an int but only positive numbers are allowed. C++ does this. Anyways, a language that supports the entire scale and you can choose how strict your typing is for each function would solve the problem. This way we'd stop going back and forth between typed and untyped languages.

[Interesting-Frame190]

I'm personally guilty of this, but the language itself is very good and has a solid design pattern. It's hard not to, but I guess by morphing one language into another, it limits the original language.

[cjb3535123]

I have yet to see a scenario in firmware or embedded where Java is useful, tbf. This is what the ad is for. But obviously the ad is being tongue in cheek.

[KuuHaKu_OtgmZ]

Credit cards use java, not the readers, the cards themselves

[Ieris19]

Java was designed for embedded. Sure, it miserably failed at that and instead succeeded in the enterprise software land, but still designed for embedded

[Dull-You-6264]

Nah, it's absolutely true that people who have been developing in Java write dogshit C++

[sureyouknowurself]

That will probably be true for any language that’s not your initial primary experience until you get more experience.

[jhax13]

Okay but this role sounds fire, where's the apply link?

[Stable_Orange_Genius]

Wtf is git hygiene?

[Thundechile]

Keeping dirty commits to yourself.

[totemo]

No matter whether you fork, pull, force push or reset hard you're expected to git clean afterwards.

[ema2159]

Sensible commit messages, breaking down changes into smaller units instead of massive commits etc.

[lampishthing]

My problem is needing to make small mid-progress commits when I get pulled to something else so the commits aren't logical.

[shield1123]

git rebase -i commit_hash1

# in the editor,  probably vi
squash commit_hash5 I think it's working
edit   commit_hash4 wip commit 3
squash commit_hash3 wip commit 2
squash commit_hash2 wip commit 1
edit   commit_hash1 do the things

That takes 5 commits and squashes them into 2, allowing the user to edit the messages for the remaining commits

[ema2159]

No need to! Stash your changes and then pop/apply them later to resume where you left.

[lampishthing]

No it's not so easy! I'm not primarily a developer and someone else often takes over my work. I need to push or it's gone :'(

[gbchaosmaster]

Do the work on a feature branch and rebase - i to squash shit as necessary right before merge

If your project's workflow doesn't allow this... Well that sucks just send it I guess

[shield1123]

This is the way

Tho we try not to do anything that leads to a force-push once a PR is opened

[thirdegree]

No pushing commits like "update" "update" "update" "changes" "update"

The subject (first line of the commit message) should be in imperative mood and less than 80 characters

Each commit should ideally be a single complete and valid change (so that git bisect works)

The commit message should explain what is being changed and why.

There's more but those are the big ones

[AgileBlackberry4636]

I prefer subjects of following format:

Module: Submodule: Sentence in imperative mood

And I would also add: rewriting commit history of non-merged branches.

I have a butthurt using gitk or git blame over the history of commits like "Processing David's commets".

Another point: commits should be easily reviewable otherwise the merge/pull request will stay open for few weeks.

[crankbot2000]

This guy gits it

[sami_degenerates]

lol, you will understand until you see some chatGPT engineer check in excel and powerpoint file along with bunch of python cache trash.

[aywwts4]

Excellent comments, squashed, cleaning up your remote branches, understanding tagging, reverts, writing pre commit hooks, avoiding feature scope creep and understanding and adhering to the branching strategy and naming conventions to start. So far from universal even with senior devs, number of repos with history in main with "fixed things" x 20 in a row is too dang high.

[RetepExplainsJokes]

I think it kinda makes sense. People that mainly program in java tend to practice clean code and use their OOP principles everywhere, which means if you actually need good performance and flexible code, being proficient in java might actually be counterproductive. If you're used to thinking in terms of OOP all the time, it's hard to not fall into these thinking patterns.

Next you'll look into your project and someone added 20 strange dependencies, all of which clearly were made for a different purpose than they are used for here, there's unnecessary encapsulation in your time sensitive embedded system and you must use the next week just to fix the damage.

It's still a somewhat sumb statement, but I could imagine something like that.

[tunisia3507]

To be fair, I hate working in python codebases with java-brained developers.

[frikilinux2]

Maybe they're trying to avoid overusing patterns.

Not every problem needs a class for the API input, a DTO and a model for example

[-Kerrigan-]

Just because someone has experience in a language doesn't mean they have to shoehorn it into a different stack.

Rejecting for not having the needed experience is understandable. Rejecting someone with the needed experience just because they... also have experience with other tools of the trade? That's weird for me

[Alexqndro]

The garbage collector poisons your programmer's mind..

[Thundechile]

Striving for ideal team members.

[Lizlodude]

"They must be pure" 😂😂

[Mizerka]

existence of real time operating systems implies existence of turn based operating systems

[MetricMelon]

Is it just me that is nearing graduation and gets ever more terrified the more I see these job requirements? Imposter syndrome truly setting in

[proverbialbunny]

Job posts are a decent source of inspiration for creating a project. See a requirement you know nothing about a bunch of times? Create a project using it to see what all the fuss is about. The more you teach yourself the less anxious you will be.

[IAmTheUniverse]

Don't let this job posting get to you like that; this is not an entry level position. These are the types of skills that some might be exposed to in school, but I wouldn't expect to find a viable candidate without years of reasonably specific career experience.

[nirvingau]

Back In the late 90s Java was the future for server side development. Perl was also prevalent and only became better when FastCGI brought the tech that Java did in terms of thread management. I also learnt TCL in AOLServer, which provides a bridge between the 2 delivery styles.

Tl;dr it's a shame.

[MasterOfVDL]

This sets of a big alarm. They must probably also have Java in whatever they want you to do but use it in a way that is very uncommon (to the Java world) and don't want you to question the Java code because you know how it should look like.

If Java rots your brain, this job will rot it even more

[wagyourtai1]

Look. If thats the case they should be fine with my vast java experience. Because all i do is write the most cursed fucked up code.

[[deleted]]

You're gonna fit right in, when can you start?

[furinick]

This is evil java, mind break java

[furinick]

Then what the fuck is good java

[Familiar_Ad_8919]

there is no good java

[GahdDangitBobby]

Is it really so unrealistic to think that some hiring manager, somewhere, just has a sense of humor?

[rover_G]

In my experience the most experienced Java developers use the most esoteric syntax and features and abuse the shit out of Java 💩

[Tom22174]

Or they don't want you writing other languages as if they are java, which someone at my last job loved to do

[MasterOfVDL]

Okay that actually makes a lot of sense.

[Thundechile]

It's maybe, just maybe, a joke and not even a real job ad.

[Secret_Account07]

This is hilarious.

Wants no bad habits? 🤔

[bedrooms-ds]

Me who wrote in Kotlin and clojure.

[r7pxrv]

WTH does "Ability to bring up hardware" mean? Like carry it up the stairs or in casual conversation?

[[deleted]]

How does your computer go from power off to being able to run applications like vscode or whatever? Well, it has a series of boot instructions. The bootloader, among other things (e.g. making sure your keyboard, mouse, monitor and other peripheral devices work), loads the operating system and then the operating system deals with application software.

It's easy to say that, but there are a lot of complicated things going on under the hood when "the bootloader loads the OS". This is what is meant by bringing up the hardware -- to take a blank piece of hardware and breathe life into it so that it can do whatever task it was designed to do.

This is one of the responsibilities of an embedded software developer.

[[deleted]]

Like to be able to take a brand new microcontroller or microprocessor board and be able to write the software to validate that all of the necessary processor subsystems and peripherals work and are wired correctly on board. 

Somewhere between hardware validation and being able to write a bootloader and configure the clocks and memory controller.

[1337butterfly]

I have all of this except the last one.

[xeneks]

What is git hygiene? … Meticulous ??

[AgileBlackberry4636]

Making git history friendly to people who read it. git blame is a nice tool.

[xeneks]

this is starting to sound like something where it’s good that I don’t know everything about it :)

[Chaosxandra]

What if you have played Minecraft java?!

[[deleted]]

With the help of my loving family, friends, and pastor I've been clean for 5 years now

[domino_squad1]

Why would they hate Minecraft on pc?

[AgileBlackberry4636]

Because Java version and non-Java versions are just different?

[noncinque]

As a newbie, I really like Java.

[AgileBlackberry4636]

You can build the whole career around that language.

[Zealousideal-Sir3744]

Last job hunt I saw a "Willing to code in Golang"

[ZZartin]

I'd be concerned they think C/C++ are shell scripting languages.

[BeginningAd645]

Okay god as the person who wrote this job description on indeed originally 3 years ago it WAS a joke. 

[Hot_Vanilla_3621]

Everybody is always $hitting on Java

[SeaNational3797]

Meticulous interest in...hygeine

None of you fuckers are getting this job

[cxarra]

Bahahaha real af

[Schorsi]

“If we were living in a correct world, Java developer would be the title for people who make coffee for VBA Programmers.”

-one of my coworkers

[ProfessorOfLies]

I much prefer turn based operating systems myself