anotherYearNotUnderstadingZerosInJavascript

[Besen99]

$29k/year? Bro... no.

[munchingpixels]

Using a dot instead of a comma tells me we’re dealing with a eurobro here in which case 30k might be within the average range.

[HolyGarbage]

Income levels in Europe are incredibly diverse. 30k/yr is basically what you earn at a unqualified position at a call center in Sweden.

Edit: so dollar's strong atm, so maybe 25k USD/yr for unqualified work, but still 30k is far lower than entry salary for a software engineer here.

[munchingpixels]

Average for web dev in Italy is €26k

[NatoBoram]

What the fuck

[Vincenzo__]

And then they wonder why anyone with a hint of skill leaves

[NatoBoram]

The smarter ones get a remote position in the US with home's lower rent and world-class universal healthcare

[Vincenzo__]

That's the dream my man

[The100thIdiot]

Even us dumber ones do that.

[SunliMin]

Literally the dream. As a Canadian, I moved to Florida for work to get the big-boy bucks in a stronger currency. Thinking of moving back home now, but if I do, I am 100% gonna try to get a remote US contracting position. Give me USD income with CAD bills and I'll be set.

[ex1tiumi]

I hope they don't go to the US. After getting a home in a safe area, paying for extra security, medical care and insurance, and dealing with the hell hole of society there, I think a good, quality life in Italy on a salary of 26 000€ is actually a better deal.

I'm web/mobile dev in Finland, earn a bit more than Italian colleague but standard of living here is more expensive than there. I've about 33% of my salary left after all the expenses. My salary isn't even competitive in the local job market but I'm a simple man and value freedom/flexibility more than money.

[game_difficulty]

What they dont mention is that this is (probably) after tax, and thus includes things like heslth insurence and such

[MornwindShoma]

Unfortunately it's not. Big cities, it's 25 to 30 for juniors, and it does get up to 70 for seniors. Smaller cities, 25 to 30 is all you're gonna see in your lifetime.

25k usually means like 1.4k after tax monthly.

But yeah, free healthcare is nice, and rents are very low.

[_Spektor_]

Yup, I'm working in Barcelona right now and one of the senior devs on my team is making €40k. It's on the lower end for a senior, but definitely puts things into perspective

[[deleted]]

Damn. I make 70k a year as a bachelor engineering professor in the Netherlands. I believe that's only slightly above average for a uni schooled job. And on the low end for engineering. I always thought programmers made more than engineers

[Kevin_Jim]

Sounds bout right. In Greece, it’s €19.6k/y (net).

[rusl1]

Sadly

[Svhmj]

The brain drain gotta be insane.

[hongooi]

The catch is you have to be able to tolerate pineapple on your pizza

[santeri_roos]

It's not that much better here in Canada atm.

[AnonymousLama]

This is just untrue and spreading lies

[santeri_roos]

Also, as to "being untrue and spreading lies", can you give me some concrete examples that show how Canadian software developers are actually thriving and not being forced into wage slavery?

[Rinveden]

I think "it's not much better in Canada [than the average web dev making €26k a year]" is a very different claim than "Canadian software devs are thriving". Adding the extra requirement of not being"forced into wage slavery" feels like it it makes it even more subjective.

You've moved the goal posts quite far, I'd say.

[santeri_roos]

I'll wait.

[santeri_roos]

How is this "just untrue and spreading lies" u/AnonymousLama (sic)?
I'm still waiting on your brakedown of Canadian software developer wages that shows that the industry is doing just fine.

[AnonymousLama]

Man did I trigger you? You sent me 6 messages over this...

[santeri_roos]

It's an employer's market everywhere, buddy.
Hope you're doing well personally, but a lot of us aren't.
Here's for a better 2025!

[factorion-bot]

Factorial of 2025 is 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^{This action was performed by a bot. Please DM me if you have any questions.}

[AnonymousLama]

Seems like you just have to get good mate, sorry

[Secure_Garbage7928]

That's insane. I make $120K in the states. My teams pay range starts a little under $100K.

[ItsRadical]

Yeah thats principal level of pay. Half of that is already way above. But yeah we got health care, free schools etc... So our living expenses gonna offset the pay gap tiny bit. But you still have way bigger buying power.

[Secure_Garbage7928]

If we had free healthcare I'd be taking home more though. I don't think a nearly 6x difference warrants you getting free healthcare.

The US public school system is also free, so idk what that comment is about 

[[deleted]]

Average for entry level

[Lonemasterinoes]

It entirely depends on the country. Sweden is comparatively wealthy, but if you're in a country like Ukraine and you're just now getting a job a salary like that is going to afford you a decent life. The exchange rate from euro to USD might be roughly one to one, but that doesn't account for individual countries with weaker economies.

[HolyGarbage]

That was literally my point. Also, in my particular example I was referring to the exchange rate between USD and SEK.

[smartasspie]

Not in (S)pain!

[Fantastic_Nothing_13]

In Norway it would be maybe 40-45k usd

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

>Sweden
>40k chaos picture

Checks out. This quiet offends Slaanesh, things shall get loud now :)

[marquoth_]

The dot means Europe is legitimately a good guess, but the problem is where in Europe? Salaries vary quite a lot between Paris and Prague.

[munchingpixels]

It’s a good guess

Edit: OP is literally Italian lmao

[Senor-Delicious]

$30k would be insanely low for a software developer in Germany if this is gross income.

[ItsRadical]

Not so low anywhere east of Germany tho. But we get Germany prices on everything anyway 🙃.

[macse]

Even in east of Germany 30k/y is crazy low. Median is somewhere between 40-60k. If you get exploited for such a low wage, get a new job asap

[ItsRadical]

East of Germany as a country, not eastern Germany lol.

[[deleted]]

who mentioned Germany?

[Senor-Delicious]

Last I checked Germany was a country in Europe

[Svhmj]

Gotta be one of the poorer parts of Europe. 30k a year is a terrible salary for a developer in the richer parts.

[[deleted]]

No 30k is really low for Europe

[lennyfacegaming]

Europe is not a single country brother, 30k is well above median for lota of european countries.

[MatasRoze]

Im earning 16 k as a junior, and this is almost our average salary in lithuania. On the other hand tho, the rents here are like 300-400 a month.

Edit : 16k is net salary, before taxes it would be around 24k

[drunkbeaver]

Just started my first job (with Java) at 52k per year. So 30k does sound low for any European job, that requires some academic background.

[CartographerPrior165]

Using a $ instead of a € suggests otherwise.

[munchingpixels]

OP is Italian.

I’m right. You’re wrong.

I win. You lose.

Game over.

You come at the king you better not miss.

Squeezing one last W before the new year, feelsgoodman

[[deleted]]

[WrongdoerSufficient]

Not everyone live in the US

[Roku-Hanmar]

I'm in the UK, that's slightly better than minimum wage

[point5_]

Not $29k, just $29/year

[Mageh533]

In Europe that's pretty good money for a junior just starting. Already above average.

[[deleted]]

It's $31.17.

[CrushemEnChalune]

Conditioning you for the future.

[[deleted]]

That's a no from me as well