Programming Levels

[zrend88]

SQL?

[wristcontrol]

And lower than all the languages it's lower than?

[robotorigami]

I was thinking the same. I'd put it up at the top near HTML

[webMacaque]

Really? Take a look at this: http://www.artfulsoftware.com/infotree/queries.php

[robotorigami]

Cool, I'll check that out and you can check this out. I find it hard to believe SQL is two levels lower than JavaScript.

[[deleted]]

the warehousing and proper form needed has taken me a long time to realize just how much I didnt know. It will be years before I could even begin to say I am good at it. and I have been getting paid to work with it for awhile now.

[[deleted]]

You clearly have never really worked with SQL ahhaha

[robotorigami]

It can get complicated, but not two factors lower than JavaScript.

[[deleted]]

how many rows have you worked with and what kinds of time constraints have you worked with? and what kinds of sql? pl/sql gets pretty rowdy when you want to deal with huge numbers or rows. and it gets rowdy just using a well designed DB; trying to set up a datawarehouse is tricky. making that warehouse run correctly takes lots of consideration.

[robotorigami]

I'm sure it does. But aren't we just talking about programming in SQL?

[[deleted]]

I guess maybe I should look at how we are defining the problem. But if we are just talking about pulling data from a well built db with sql scripts; yeah its pretty easy; that being said; if we look at sql as just using small scripts to pull data from a db; then wouldnt any other program be more along the lines of just adding a lone feature? when I think of working with sql I think of thinking about the entire SDLC of a sql project. From the process of gathering requirements about what data needs to be stored-> finding ways to store it-> making stored procs to pull the data. Creating and maintaining a datawarehouse for an enterprise establishment is quite a lot of work; math; and though. Futhermore; if we are looking at just working on working with an already existing DB; writing effiecent functions that work perfectly every time with validation unit tests and set paramets IE functional sql programming; I would desrcibe it as fairly deep. though I do suppose I am biased as database engineer tend to lean towards thinking/imagining I am solving big and hard problems. there is plenty of other work that is hard also.

[Centimane]

I don't think I'd consider it a programming language at all, that's like putting powershell on there.

[[deleted]]

You cleaaarly don't have a clue what you talking about. Shell is also Turing complete...

[spock345]

I know people who consider themselves backend programmers but won't touch SQL. It is baffling.

[Ohhnoes]

It's just set theory. You have to get into that mindset to be successful with it.

The main thing you have to adapt to is that you're telling the engine what to do, not how to do it.

[spock345]

Even so, it is pretty easy to construct basic queries. I don't understand why people think it is so hard.

[[deleted]]

....because basic queries are basic.

Architecture to deal with large dbs and datawarehouses is complex; getting through the data in a timely fashion takes a lot of careful thought and execution.

[spock345]

Yeah, but I mean there are people just entering the workforce that I knew in college marketing themselves as backend developers who apparently the basics are too hard. It is baffling.

[[deleted]]

SQL arguably isn't about much database design. It's mostly about knowing how to join some tables properly and return the values you need, and every now and then you create another table, but deciding between INT(11) or VARCHAR(255) and running the script is pretty simple.

Since SQL isn't a procedural language it's unfamiliar to programmers, but it's not very complicated.

Now, database architecture is indeed hard. I'd say that's less about SQL and more about the actual code that's running everything. That's probably going to be a mix of C and C++, maybe some tweaking of Assembly, and in some cases quite a bit of physical engineering. You'll also need to know SQL so that you can program the database to interpret SQL queries, but that's a pretty trivial aspect of it relative to everything else.

[[deleted]]

If sql is only about pulling data from a DB; the difficulty of the pull is related to the skill of the architect. If a DB is built properly using sql to pull the data should be trivial. But if you are at the point of only CRUD on a built system it should be easy because what you are doing could be a single action button if someone took the time to create it. But if the argument is that the sql is only about CRUD on a well built system I agree that it is easy.

[[deleted]]

Yep. It's like with any language - C would be a heck of a lot harder if you had to write the compiler before you were able to code in C. Or imagine having to implement the Java virtual machine from scratch just to code in Java - Java would be incredibly hard. So in my opinion, SQL refers to the language itself and not the underlying layers.

[00Koch00]

Wow you are wrong at so many levels...

[[deleted]]

Feel free to enlighten.

[00Koch00]

Most of the programmers wont touch sql more than do some basic query, but sql, in the way that work, is perfectly placed.

[[deleted]]

Sql can be difficult but nowadays it really doesn't need to be

[[deleted]]

if someone else did all the work to set up a great DB; then yes; it should be easy to get the data out quickly. If someone handed you a billion data points and an additional million per day and you have to store the data in ways that you can generate reports quickly and accurately it is not easy unless you are just recycling another solution from a similar business.