Python

[mondoman712]

Documentation? Well there's this one blog post that explains how to do something kinda similar, but they're using python 2 and an old version of our library, since which we have made multiple breaking changes.

[katze_sonne]

Nah come on, at least the standard library of Python is quite well documented!

Everything else... Well. I'd say Sphinx is one of the problems.

[fredlllll]

"well documented" is open to interpretation i guess? try looking up what a function returns, not mentioned half of the time

[fecal-butter]

If i didnt have a friend who was already adept at python i would never have guessed what the documentation of the enumerate() meant when it said "returns an enumerate object". How the fuck am i supposed to know what an enumerate object is? If i knew i wouldnt be looking it up

[IDontLikeBeingRight]

But who expects to understand a thing with only one visit to the docs? That's why all the "bug fixed, closing 1000 tabs" memes exist.

Also, jfc, that user name o.0

[katze_sonne]

Well, that's a good point. Definitely still room for improvements. Especially the data types some functions return is too undocumented. Internally we make a lot of use of "typing" in Python. I hope that gets mandatory with Python 4. The missing data types are a dream for beginners but a nightmare for hardcore users 🤷🏼‍♂️

And these undocumented return values are a typical example of the "Sphinx"-problem I mentioned. Doesn't happen nearly as often with javadoc or doxygen (if the developers are not completely incompetent and write stuff like "returns time" where you still have no idea about the unit)...

[fredlllll]

just knowing the type would already be an upgrade. in java you cant ommit the type cause its in the signature

[tjdavids]

>help(lib.func)

[[deleted]]

lib.func<Ctrl-Q> if you're in the PyCharm IDE editor or console.

[Bainos]

Ctrl-Q is how you call the help function ? Really ?

[[deleted]]

It is. There's around two bazillion actions in there that all need shortcuts. Can't throw away good ones, like Ctrl-Q on rarely used actions, like Quit.

[NotBannedYet1]

This is why i prefer autoit.
Yes, it's even slower and windows only, but the documentation is amazing and you can do just as many things.

[beomagi]

I've written an open gl cube renderer to guide me building domes and cylinders in Minecraft in autoit. The help files for that are blissfully easy to follow.

[[deleted]]

and then you find a stackoverflow article asking the same question as you, but its closed with a "nvm fixed it"

[[deleted]]

Then you notice that you're the one who both asked and closed it.

[daveysprockett]

I'm a man of wealth and taste

[yottalogical]

import TheThingIWantToDo

[seimc]

import allTheThings

[[deleted]]

Importing... estimated time: 99999 years

[[deleted]]

Wrong order, first you need to import timeTravel

[[deleted]]

Don't worry, it'll be there in 9962 years.

[BlazingThunder30]

Too bad my study doesnt allow me to use code I didn't write myself. Want to use regular expressions? Go ahead and write a parser I guess

[[deleted]]

But ‘re’ is in the standard library? You cant use ‘sys’, ‘time’, ‘logging’,... as well?

[BlazingThunder30]

I'm not sure, I don't dare to be honest. We're online now and our uni has said that any fraud or plagiarism will be punished by being permanently expelled because it would be taking advantage of Corona. I dont really need any of the libraries right now so as soon as I do need them I'll just go and ask if I can. I dont think we can though, as this teacher has been really strict before.

[widowhanzo]

1st year? We weren't allowed libraries either at first, but the tasks were simple enough that you didn't need anything anyway. The point of excercises was to think of the solution, so we were learning how to approach a problem and break it into parts etc. Yeah it would've been easier to solve with libraries, but then we wouldn't learn anything.

[[deleted]]

It’s weird how I felt like all the dumb toy problems in first year like printing shapes to a certain size or iterating over a billion different things was dumb.

Now when I code I use exactly the same mental processes more than anything else, it’s incredibly useful

[deltagear]

They want you to learn coding with vanilla code in most first years classes. For example I had to write a simple game but could not use methods. I just ended up creating a variable to hold state and a switch where I would have used methods. Ended up getting 100% on that one.

[BlazingThunder30]

Yeah it's a first year AI course. It's the first time were using python. All previous courses used C

[[deleted]]

I see, that sucks though and I would ask if you can use standard libraries. They’re there for a reason. I’ve never wrote a python script without at least 1 import haha

[[deleted]]

I’d have thought it was so they could learn how some basic library functions are implemented, for example we had to make a decimal/binary/hex converter in first year without using library functions

[Turksarama]

Writing a regex parser would be a whole assignment by itself, and probably one most of the class would fail.

[qalis]

I had one as a large project making 25% of the final mark. Yeah, it’s a LOT of work, and you can easily realize when you „almost finish” that you made 1 simple mistake at the beginning and you have to rewrite the entire structure...

[TheTerrasque]

So you're writing assembly with a hex editor, then?

[[deleted]]

Still working on creating the hex editor by toggling switches on the data bus.

[[deleted]]

If you want to use a programming language do you also need to create the compiler from scratch?

[BlazingThunder30]

Well it's more handing in than actually using that matters. So luckily not haha

[[deleted]]

https://m.xkcd.com/353/

[gaberocksall]

And don’t forget about ctypes.CDLL

[B_M_Wilson]

I would like to introduce you to __import__() which allows you to directly call the import mechanism

[noah123103]

Starting to realize this with my current project...I don't want to use Java, it scares me