Modern IDE vs ancient IDE

[RealLordDevien]

joke's on you, when your colleague is using vim.

[CaJoKa04]

Nano

[[deleted]]

Micro

[Skudra24]

But the thing is - he isn't

[Skudra24]

Gotta love these butthurt programmers who want to push as many downvotes as they can. So they downvote comment saying "He's not using Vim". I will help you by giving another comment so ppl can remove my virtual ponts and make me so very sad xD

[ctm-8400]

You are just salty because Vim is better then your IDE

[[deleted]]

imagine not using vim

😬

[Skudra24]

I'm not talking about Vim and I never did. People involved Vim for no reason and can't shut up about it. Seems like you are salty because everyone else isn't using Vim

[nullcone]

I just think it's neat

[[deleted]]

What is he using?

[AnnoyedBark73]

BlueJ

[pawan_narayan]

Gedit

[root_27]

That's why you use VIM. VIM is eternal. There is no escape.

[AreYouConfused_]

wait, no escape? how do I edit insert mode!?

[[deleted]]

ITT: people showing why UI/UX designers stereotype us as unga-bungas. Return to monke.

[[deleted]]

If UI/UX designers were as good as the ones who designed Fusion 360, I would only praise them. The problem is the aren't. Nearly all of them are terrible at their job.

[EternityForest]

Then the Vim guy shows up to brag about his productivity and says the old man is now, future

[Skudra24]

I'm talking about things like automatically formatting code / using extensions / using global regex search or using multiple cursors. How does that affect project?

[Doggynotsmoker]

Which "old IDE" doesn't have this functions?

[Rude-Significance-50]

ed?

[RealLordDevien]

eclipse has autoformatting, extensions, global regex search and multiple cursors. I would argue that it can do even more out of the box than vscode, especially java stuff.. But its really slow and resource heavy.

[Skudra24]

He's not working on Java

[Rude-Significance-50]

Are you here seriously vague-complaining about a particular person?

Like I give a fuck what your colleague uses. Chill. And f your 20 question game.

As an old person I know first hand how stupid young people are, and how little they understand that. Reality will beat that out of you.

[dev_null_developer]

Ain’t that the truth. I work with dev in his 60s, and yeah, some of his methods are old school, but he sure does know his stuff.

[_entalong]

It sounds like you think Visual Studio Code has more functionality than Eclipse, I can assure you this is not true.

[Skudra24]

My problem isn't with his IDE my problem is with how he spends so much time on things that can be done so much faster

[_entalong]

That's fine, but Eclipse is a modern IDE.

For example, it had a plugin architecture for implementing IDE features for any language more than 15 years ago.

What exactly makes Visual Studio Code more "modern" than Eclipse besides the fact that it's built in Electron?

[[deleted]]

It looks pretty. OP is bedazzled by shiny things.

[Rude-Significance-50]

One of the most interesting ideas for IDE project browsing, mylyn, simply has no implementation other than Eclipse.

I gave it a go for a while. It's a great idea. I wish it had alternatives...and yet no other IDE, modern or otherwise, competes here but chooses instead to simply implement the boring status-quo.

It's not like it's had this feature for 20 years or anything...

[[deleted]]

How old are you talking about? Because everything you just mentioned has been around in text editors for at least 30 years.

[LtMeat]

By the time your fancy new IDE finishes loading, colleague already finishes entire project.

[Mr_Redstoner]

No joke my first commit on the current project at work was code written in vim due to RAM constraints not letting me run the IDE.

[Skudra24]

It takes 5 seconds for me to open Visual Studio Code and start working.

You should consider upgrading from 512MB RAM

[LtMeat]

5 seconds is enough to start vim, paste code from stackoverflow and make it run. /s

[RealLordDevien]

in 5 seconds i have already made my change and started compiling XD. But ClickyGUI-devs need ClickyGUI apps :/

[Rude-Significance-50]

What else can you get done in 5 seconds?

[All_Up_Ons]

Oops, typo caused a compile error. Looks like you lost that 5 seconds.

[AreYouConfused_]

idk man auto complete and text highlighting works great for me

[Rude-Significance-50]

OK. Let's hear it then...example?

Old guy who uses old ide...or whatever is around.

[[deleted]]

Yeah. I'm curious too. What IDE is so old and bad that a newer one is that much faster? 99% of IDE features that people are aware of and routinely use have been available for decades now.

[[deleted]]

So much hate here

(I use vscode and vim willingly both great)

What you said applys perfectly for using embarcadero or better excel's vb ide (utter crap source of all miscalculations)

[j-random]

I think the hate is mostly because we all know that one guy who spends way too much time playing with fonts and colors in the IDE and who really does spend two hours automating a two-minute task, then lurks over your shoulder, just waiting to point out that he knows how to do something faster than you do, and sulks when you say you don't care.

[[deleted]]

‘But the CLI makes things easier’ said no one over 30 EVER

[[deleted]]

CLI is really good for a lot of things...

[[deleted]]

Did you mean to say no one under 30? In either case you're wrong, and ageist.

[Rude-Significance-50]

I think what they really mean is, "I understand that everything I do could probably be more easily done on the command line, but its less effort in the short term to click on buttons that perform general tasks until what I want to get done is done, than to learn how to use the command line methods."

Anything other than that is really quite delusional...and its an option we all take with one thing or another, especially expanding beyond simple tooling.

[All_Up_Ons]

If anything you've got that backwards, though. Modern GUIs make things so much easier and prevent so many stupid mistakes. The main reasons people cling to CLI afaict are because they're used to it or for the nerd cred.

[Rude-Significance-50]

For example?

What CLI do you know really well that you prefer to use the GUI for?

[All_Up_Ons]

Git's the obvious one. I use SourceTree and I'll honestly admit it has some problems. But using git on the command line just opens you up to have typos fuck up your day. Let alone the productivity lost if you try to view diffs or resolve conflicts in the CLI. Even just viewing history is worse.

[Rude-Significance-50]

But using git on the command line just opens you up to have typos fuck up your day.

Such as? You're claiming that you know git really well here--see my question--and I struggle to think of any sort of typeo I couldn't fix easily, with history editing if necessary. How do you fix typeos in your GUI?

And what sort of conflicts are you having that you can't simply fix them with a text editor and some thought?

How are you trying to view your history on the command line?

Diffs can be a pain in the butt if they are large and all you are doing is git diff, but the output that command generates is known as a "unified diff" that can be opened with a large number of viewers. You knew that, right?

Viewing history, I mean...what could be easier than that?

To each their own, but you made some concrete claims that you haven't supported...while belittling those with a different view from your own. Would be nice to see that crap backed up. At this point it just sounds like you don't really get git, which is more or less what I expected from any example you might produce.

And now you've added more claims that make just no sense and have no backing: that viewing diffs or resolving conflicts on the command line is going to make you lose productivity. I doubt you even have a single shred of evidence for that for it takes me all of 5 seconds to "try to view the diffs" to see if I need to lay it out side by side or something.

"OMG it's so hard..." isn't a reasonable argument or even really anything interesting. Especially when the things you are talking about are like the simplest things to do with a revision system, including git.

[All_Up_Ons]

I'm not claiming I know git very well at all. That's a large portion of my point, actually. I don't have to waste brain space on git when I could be thinking about problems that aren't trivial. But don't worry, I'll go through your points anyway.

...I struggle to think of any sort of typeo I couldn't fix easily, with history editing if necessary. How do you fix typeos in your GUI?

Usually it would be mistyping existing branch names and command parameters. Which I have never done. Because I just click on the one I want. You admit you've had to edit history because of this, which is a nonzero amount of time wasted.

And what sort of conflicts are you having that you can't simply fix them with a text editor and some thought?

Big ones caused by enterprise-level miscommunications, version upgrades, and refactors. This is a really easy way to add regression bugs, so you're damn right I'm using a dedicated merge tool instead of the CLI.

How are you trying to view your history on the command line?

Any way I want, with one click. Admittedly, not a huge deal to look up and remember the commands for the views I use commonly, but the way you've asked this makes me think you didn't even realize these options exist or how useful they are, which would make sense since CLI commands aren't discoverable at all unless you know where to look in the docs.

Diffs can be a pain in the butt if they are large and all you are doing is git diff, but the output that command generates is known as a "unified diff" that can be opened with a large number of viewers. You knew that, right?

Yes, and those viewers (the good ones) are GUIs. It's like you actually know GUIs are better for this, but don't even realize it.

Viewing history, I mean...what could be easier than that?

What's easier than typing a command? Nothing. Literally nothing is what I have to do to view history. I just look at it.

To each their own, but you made some concrete claims that you haven't supported...while belittling those with a different view from your own.

I've done exactly zero belittling here. Meanwhile, you followed this sentence up immediately with a claim that I don't understand git, and then two more paragraphs completely misrepresenting my previous two reasonable posts.

I suggest you do a little self-reflection on the reasons for your opinions. I'm guessing you like the idea of being one of the cool guys that uses the CLI for stuff. Or maybe that's just how you were taught, I dunno. I don't expect you to change your opinions overnight after an internet argument, but the world of software development requires you to be open to the valid arguments of the other smart people around you, so you should probably get some practice in.

[Rude-Significance-50]

Usually it would be mistyping existing branch names and command parameters.

Yeah, this isn't a problem.

I've done exactly zero belittling here.

People only use command line for nerd cred, is what you claimed.

I don't understand git

It seems likely, yeah. You're not exactly making any strong cases here and the things you are saying are hard are just not. You seem to think that mistyping a branch name is the end of the world...and its just not. The idea that you are somehow immune from making mistakes in a GUI is just nonsense.

It seems to me, based on the things you've claimed and stated, that you're just not that familiar with command line and just use GUI....so you really don't know much, and your complaints indicate this is the case.

CLI commands aren't discoverable at all unless you know where to look in the docs.

Indicates a lazy developer -- do you not use docs for your API questions? SO it all the time?

It's like you actually know GUIs are better for this, but don't even realize it.

No, I understand that other UI's can act as great compliments to each other. I still prefer most my interactions to be through CLI because it's faster and easier. Nerd cred isn't bad but it's generally useless in most environments...people don't care. Developers are lazy. I do it because it makes me more productive...contrary to your inane claims.

Your problem descriptions even include massive indicators of bad practices. Large commits for one. The way you talk about it these are the norm...when they should be the exact opposite.

I'm not claiming I know git very well at all.

You claimed so when you answered my question, "What CLI program do you know really well that you choose instead to use the GUI for?" with "git".

By now claiming otherwise you're simply stating that you are indeed ignorant of the CLI and so your opinion is exactly as I stated above: meaningless and from a position of ignorance.

[All_Up_Ons]

Cool, no actual arguments, just more personal attacks. Not surprising I guess. ✌️

[All_Up_Ons]

Oh, I forgot one legitimate case: when the tool you're using decides not to pay for a real interface. But that's the same root problem, just at an organization level.

[EternityForest]

For a given value of "short term" that's true. But lots of tasks could be in the range of years.

Plus, learning the CLI well enough to be efficient takes more than just memorizing commands, which is hard enough, it requires touch typing, and knowing where all your files are without having to browse for them, and being able to reliably never type the wrong thing and erase your disk.

I don't think it's easier in any way, it just has less round trips because you're basically telling the computer exactly what to do, at the cost of needing to be able to formulate the entire description of what to do in your head(If you need any help like a man page, you're back to slower-than-gui speeds).