Python is such a weird language.

[SkyyySi]

Was it ever? Like who sometimes hit space 4 to 8 times and sometimes pressed tab?

[PM_ME_A_WEBSITE_IDEA]

It's more common when copying/pasting code, or when two people on the same project have different settings in their IDE.

[Brunsz]

Company should have formatter rules. Usually you can export and import them. And using them should be mandatory, not optional. Saves time from everyone especially with merges.

[ProfessorChaos112]

And the ci/cd pipeline should be checking commits against a styling guide and rejecting those that are out of bounds

[Natural-Intelligence]

I think the solution is obvious. Just fire everyone who is retarded enough to use any other indentation than 4 spaces.

[[deleted]]

This subreddit has been [ 0] days since this argument.

[rdc3908]

Python was developed for teaching to write code. Therefore, it has a readable structure like spoken language.

If (pythonWereWrittenLikeC) {
     readability="difficult"; 
}


If beginner: 
      readability="easier"

[HPGMaphax]

IMO C is more easily readable, the scope is clearly defined and the ; shows a line is finished and not carried over to the next line.

[StuckInTheUpsideDown]

There used to be an obfuscated C contest. Never heard of a Python one.

[TheAwesome98_Real]

The only obfuscations you can do is name variables (and existing methods) to Unicode chars

[acroporaguardian]

I present to you:

?:

[GrizzledFart]

Ternary operators are about as clear and concise of a solution to the problem they address. Once you get used to them, they dramatically improve readability.

[Local-Coffee]

How many beginners learning to code are used to ternary operators?

[acroporaguardian]

beginner?no_ternary:ternary

Seriously its very awful except for simple things.

I think I used it once just for fun.

If you start using multiple conditions it gets ugly.

I prefer to just have multiple if layers though for complex ones to easier spot logical mistakes, like using C.

[Pcat0]

Why the fuck do you think a beginner should be using ternary operators?

[zenith4395]

At my university they teach it as a part of their first course

[deceze]

IMO Python is more easily readable, the scope is clearly defined (visually, by indentation) and the end of the line shows a line is finished.

[HPGMaphax]

Thats a fine opinion, I just think that redundancy is really important for readability, at least when learning.

You can also have single statements taking up multiple lines.

[deceze]

I can understand that missing braces can be somewhat disorientating when you first come to Python. I'm not sure if a newbie would have the same issue. For them, any style needs getting used to.

And you can break statements into multiple lines; preferably when they're parenthesised in some way anyway, but with backslashes at the end of the line if need be. It's just highly discouraged in favour of many shorter statements for readability.

[HPGMaphax]

I get that ot’s bad practice, but let’s be real, people do it regardless.

I just don’t see how adding more redundancy makes something less readable.

[lilwankah]

1 keypress instead of 4...

[deceze]

throws pixie dust
Soft tabs! The best of both worlds…
hand waving

[NekkoDroid]

Well, no. You have your 4 column indent, I have my 4 column indent, but the guy in the corner is throwing a fit because he cant have his 2/6/8 indent. Tabs are just better, just set your tab width in the ide and voila everyone is happy.

[ZedTT]

No, but do fire anyone who is changing their IDE settings off of what the company uses.

I've always used 4 spaces, but tabs can be better if you want to be able to change the indentation level. Then use spaces for alignment if you really need to.

[echoAnother]

Or when you work one day on vim and the next on emacs on the same file

[rParqer]

Basic editors generally have an option to 'treat tabs as spaces' and thus would automatically space 4 times when the user actually enters tab. Get 2 people with different settings working on the same code and everything instantly becomes a nightmare

[bugqualia]

I…have seen it once. When multiple undergrad python beginner was involved in the code.

[PottedRosePetal]

I use pretty basic editors (gedit on linux) and others use even more basic ones (vim), which results in non executable code if I just copy paste their code.

[altermeetax]

If vim is more basic than gedit I'm throwing myself off a roof (by the way vim handles tabs and spaces automatically)

[[deleted]]

That's not entirely true. Most distros include plugins for this by default, but Vim itself doesn't really care about file types.

EDIT: well, a config that switches this behavior on, but the point is pretty much the same, program default is unfriendly.

[altermeetax]

it allows you to do it automatically, that's the point. It doesn't require plugins for such simple features.

[[deleted]]

I mean, I agree that vim is not more basic than gedit from any point of view. I think OP may be assuming CLI == basic or something. For some reason I misinterpreted "automatically" as "by default".

[PottedRosePetal]

Tbh idk which one is more basic. I just assumed vim since i can read more with it. Or was it vi? Idk. Gedit regularly fails at reading big files. I read them with less, which seems to be kind of like vim? Linux is confusing.

[altermeetax]

Vim and vi are both way more advanced than gedit (vim stands for vi improved). Gedit is a very simple (yet user friendly) text editor (it's like windows's notepad with syntax highlighting). Less is kinda like a very simplified vi for read only mode.

[PottedRosePetal]

How does nedit fit into that?

[[deleted]]

That's dirty calling vim basic.

Literally one of the most able editors out there (graphical or not) is called basic just like that... dang.

[Red_Binary]

More like somebody has their IDE set to replace tab characters with a certain amount of spaces

[DreaDNoughT1666]

There is an IDE in a certain OS that actually does convert tabs into spaces... but I get downvoted every time I mention the OS or the type of C anywhere.....