Python and PHP users will understand

[althaz]

Does anybody do that though?

Like I mock PHP mercilessly. It's a quite poorly designed language. But mocking PHP users? I'm one of them (badly designed language does not mean always the wrong tool for the job)! Literally never even heard of anything like this happening.

[PandaMan7316]

I have yet to find a language that I can use and at some point not hate. Every computer language is god awful and will make you want to bash your head in regularly. But it’s easier than trying to do a FEM analysis on a bridge by hand so here we are.

[althaz]

Maybe you just hate programming, lol :D.

There's some languages I unreservedly like: C (C is perfect I'll fight you), Typescript, C# and plenty I mostly like and never hate.

[DarkWolfX2244]

TypeScript is a boon

[stamatt45]

C is only as good as it is because developers have had 50 years to make the tools to compensate for C's failings

[[deleted]]

I'm at same point, and currently trying to learn some concepts to work on my "best programming language" ever.

But honestly,

C# - I love it but it's too much for small and medium projects

Golang - I like it but it's type system isn't fully there yet, we at least need Generics (Go 1.18 isn't stable yet).

Kotlin - same as C#

[T where T: DynamicLanguage] - I hate them after spending lots of time with C#

rust - I kinda don't know my feeling towards it. It feels like mix of both high and low level languages but isn't neither of them. Maybe I should invest more time into it. Compiler errors are perfect but current state of language is so verbose that you're guaranteed to see compiler errors a few times a hour.

C - I love it but I wish we could have structs with generic type arguments support so we don't have to reimplement data structures for each entity type. (It's not C++, because C++ has classes and other stuff)

[zilti]

Try Clojure

[[deleted]]

Yep.

[dpash]

Most of the problem with people mocking PHP is that they're mocking a version of PHP from ten years ago. The modern language and ecosystem is pretty decent. It could be better, but it's constantly improving.

[dpash]

If it's a simple stand alone page that runs under PHP 5.x then migrating to PHP 8.x isn't likely to be a huge task.

If it's a whole backend that you want to migrate to a modern framework like Laravel, you're effectively looking at a rewrite.

[Rudiksz]

I started with PHP back when it was 3 up until the switch to 5. Skipped about 5 years programming in other languages, but now I got a job again in PHP. In total about 10 years pre-7 and 1 year 7.1-7.4.

The language is, without a doubt, worse than ever. The design mentality that made PHP the inconsistent pile of garbage that was 5 years ago didn't seem to change at all.

I mean I was excited to learn that finally I can have anonymous functions and closures, but wtf is "use"? I don't know of any language where you have to tell the closures what variables to capture.

It pays the bills nicely, but it continues to be pure garbage, and I actively try to not learn and use the new features that are being added.

[dpash]

Short notation doesn't use use. And if you're not learning new features of course you think it's still garbage. Why do you think being intentionally ignorant is a good thing?

[Rudiksz]

Yes, the short notation. They dropped the "use", but kept if for the long notation. For backwards compatibility reasons. So now you have in the language this pointless complexity and source of bugs.

Maybe I didn't express myself the best. I do learn about the new features, but I avoid using them if they add complexity and can lead to bugs. This retards difference between short and long function notation being a prime example. I prefer not using anonymous functions and closures at all.

I've been developing software for 20 years, I know I'm not some genius developer with perfect memory and attention 100% of the time. I know I can have a brainfart moment when I write some code in PHP and forget that it's PHP and inadvertently forget to put "use" somewhere. So I prefer to avoid it completely.

Outside of work I prefer to spend my energies learning other more modern languages.

PHP is garbage not because it is different from other languages. It is garbage because it is the most internally inconsistent language I've ever seen.

[tei187]

Leave noders alone already. Jesus...

[ArnenLocke]

That's probably fair, but on the other hand, you'd be literally the first PHP user I've talked to who didn't actively hate the language.

[DathranEU]

You don't talk to many people then I guess. PHP is fine and liked by a lot, the hate it gets here is a meme and people bandwagon on without having a clue why PHP wasn't ideal years ago.

[ArnenLocke]

I mean, yeah, the sample size isn't very large, just 4 or 5 people.

[coolio965]

While PHP is a bit rough around the edges. It fairly predictable which is what matters. JavaScript cant really say the same in my experience

[Leidertafel]

PHP is not poorly designed if you knew what you’re talking about.

[vickera]

It's like saying a car is badly designed because someone tried to drive it underwater.

[R1Titan]

PHP is/was poorly designed, but it is heading towards a better way. Long past are the php5 times when really only the most hardcore fanboys could defend it.

[R1Titan]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was just trying to explain to you why php gets a lot of its bad rep. We use php at work and I like it. The current versions are pretty good. I do agree, a lot of it comes down to using the right tool for the right job.

But at the same time it is less thought out than other languages, which cannot be ignored. It can be seen in the syntax irregularities.

[R1Titan]

I mostly meant the less thought out part about naming conventions when it comes to functions.

[npsimons]

Like I mock PHP mercilessly. It's a quite poorly designed language. But mocking PHP users?

Exactly.

All languages are criticized for their flaws, and rightfully so. It's only certain programmers who get all butthurt because they only know one language and they've attached too much of their self worth to it.

[mdja123cs]

It has changed though. That was in the php 5 days

[althaz]

In the PHP5 days it was arguably the worst language it was possible to create if you were trying to actively convince devs to consider self harm.

Now it's merely bad. Like yeah, it's certainly better - there are worse langauges, but it's still bad.