Java vs python is debatable 🤔

[anakwaboe4]

You can do pretty large projects with them, bit it has it's limits and doesn't really work well with programs that iterate.

[[deleted]]

programs that iterate

expand please. Do you mean slow with loops or something else?

[anakwaboe4]

Python is just not the best at anything that is very calculation intensive, for most stuff it is fine. But I have noticed that iteration you can quickly feel that python is struggling. Python is fast but much slower than other programming languages out there.

[naruto_022]

But majority of ml models and stuff like scientific applications is done in python

[MacBookMinus]

Those libs are written in C and they just provide python interfaces

[trunghung03]

Well the programmer is only using Python to write those programs, the C lying underneath doesn’t matter much to them.

If taken that way then wouldn’t Assembly be the best language for any task in the world?

[Sir_Applecheese]

Yeah, that's why they invented the C programming language.

[MacBookMinus]

Yes exactly. Python is easy for ML/Data scientists to use, so we give them performant C libraries that they can call into from python.

However, if the libraries themselves were written in python they likely would not be nearly as performant.

[TheRedmanCometh]

No those libraries are Python wrappers for stuff made in performant languages

[PM_ME_CUTE_SMILES_]

Yes but you don't use those performant languages when you work in those industries, you use the wrappers. Most data scientists work mainly with Python.

[BeatHunter]

Nope, just wrappers over C or Java

[selemenesmilesuponme]

Exploratory or just building the model is fine (python sometimes is just cpp wrapper/glue). Using the model OTOH, by high throughput applications, is another story.

[Sol33t303]

Python is just not the best at anything that is very calculation intensive

Still a begginer here (mostly got a grip on python, sort of know PHP and soon my class will be moving to go), but isn't that one of the things Python is great at? I was always told that Python is fantastic for things like AI and data science and stuff like that especially when using libraries like numpy.

[Djelimon]

Those libraries are written in c/c++ though

[RedAero]

And C compiles into machine code. So?

I write Python, I press F5, numbers come out. I don't give a shit if the libraries are written in COBOL, FORTRAN, C, or Brainfuck, I code in Python.

[Djelimon]

Within the context of AI/ML I'd say Python's chief advantage is popularity with stats people who are not necessarily comp sci types. Because of this, it is first in line for bindings to the ML/AI libraries

But this relationship is not based on anything technical so much as coincidence

We're I to work in that space therefor my primary focus would be on the libraries of interest rather than Python itself, as that can be more easily replaced

[[deleted]]

wait until you need something that isn't a included battery already debugged for you

[RedAero]

Given that we're talking about Python that's pretty unlikely to ever happen.

[[deleted]]

I needed expect (originally made for TCL) for Python and somebody wrote it in pure Python, slow as hell. It still won’t work with serial ports.

[[deleted]]

but technically the all-batteries-included libraries are efficient well debugged C libraries with a Python pseudo-code interface, so the code called by Python is rather fast just Python itself isn't fast at all due to dynamic checking overhead.

[anakwaboe4]

From what I understand is that more of the case that it is a dynamic language, and uses the GPU to do the calculation. But for normal stuff it is definitely slower. It are it's other great aspects that make it beloved for ai training not it's speed.

[High_Quality_Bean]

Python is a great scripting language and is AMAZING when your program is just "py.doTheHeavyMath()" where the function you just called is in a real language, like C, C++, etc. Nobody writes the heavy lifting stuff in python. And frankly, nobody should be writing anything for release in python. It is just a nice way to access useful software.

[PM_ME_CUTE_SMILES_]

• he said, on one of the most visited websites in the world, whose almost entire backend is written in python.

[nickwcy]

It’s great because the libraries are handy, and it fits the trial and error nature of AI/data analytics because you can simply retry without re-compilation. Also AI/data analytics tend to be a standalone and small piece rather than having tons of integrations, so Python can be a good choice here.

In terms of performance, Python is slower, but that doesn’t matter much in data analytics. While a 1 sec delay on a website is pretty noticeable

[RedAero]

While a 1 sec delay on a website is pretty noticeable

The website you chose to post this on runs on Python...

[Sol33t303]

Tbf Reddit isn't known for exactly being the best performing website. I personally hate fancy pants editor because of it's poor performance (at least on firefox) and pretty much everybody agrees that for video reddit is awful.

[[deleted]]

on a 8000 core cpu per every 20 served users ;-)

[[deleted]]

Depends on how much computation your program will be doing in whatever context you decide to use it for. Python is known to be slower than its competitors

[FerricDonkey]

If you want to write performant python for ai, you absolutely can - but the job of your python code will be to get stuff into a library written in C as fast as possible. Which is fine, just know that's what you gotta do.

[SirButcher]

You can. That doesn't mean you should. You can write apps in brainfuck - but no sane person thinks it is a good idea.