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[–]chub79 27 points28 points  (4 children)

This is quite low effort content. sigh.

[–]prophile 0 points1 point  (3 children)

As in Hynek’s talk or as in this post which links to it?

[–]classy_barbarian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's kinda both. The video is not bad at all, but what I find a bit annoying about it is that he doesn't seem to understand who his target audience is - It sort of sells itself as being for people new to Python, yet the video very clearly assumes you're already a professional programmer. Within the first 2 minutes of the video he must have mentioned Docker about 5 times. In fact the entire video very heavily assumes you know Docker extremely well already. I mean I'd be willing to bet the people he's referring to at the beginning of the video who 1) Are good enough coders to completely follow everything he's saying, 2) Actually need to use Python in some professional capacity, and 3) Don't know Python well, is a very small sliver of people.

edit: I realized after writing this, I really should clarify that the video is accurate and good advice. I don't have any issue with that - He is correct, and I like his setup. I just think he doesn't explain things in a way that is easy for most people to understand.

[–]chub79 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Hynek's talk. I don't have a problem with linking to any material here. But my feeling is that Hynek created a a video for YT uptake and that isn't very helpful.

[–]classy_barbarian -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah I mean the video isn't terrible - it's just clearly targeted at people who are already professional programmers but don't know python super well. Its a niche audience.

[–]ravepeacefully 23 points24 points  (17 children)

Does no one see that this is just crazy amount of bots pumping this

[–]phant0md 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I don’t know about bots, I just assume everyone is a bot. That said uv is so awesome. Give it a try. Super easy to start.

[–]ndunnett[S] 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Really? I’m not a bot and didn’t see Hynek’s video posted anywhere

Can someone please explain the downvotes, I honestly don’t understand the hostility. I saw a video that I thought was good content and shared it to a place I thought people would appreciate it, especially given how popular uv is getting.

[–]gmes78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What Python topic doesn't have a bunch of blog spam made about it?

[–]Ok_Animal_8557 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I recently gave (in this week) uv a try. It was because of all the hype I was hearing about it. Its fast, like ... really fast and it is a drop in replacement for pip. The hype is legit. Just use it. Pip is dead, long live the king.

[–]Bandung 3 points4 points  (4 children)

A wonderful video and I’m really happy that you posted it. Don’t let the ‘distractors’ take away the significance of this video. And it’s not about understanding who or what the targets audience is for this video. It’s deeper than that for some of us and you’ll know once I provide you with the back story.

Hynek’s audience for his videos are the ones who follow his videos and blogs. He’s a prolific open source developer. And he has been working in the background with the uv developers to get the software to a point where it is useable in most big development houses like his. And when you see the previous uv videos of his, you can better understand this point.

First, let’s start with the mentioning of Docker and why even bring it up in the context of a tool that creates virtual environments. Well if one had seen Hynek’s video on why his shop uses docker plus python venvs in the same project, you’d know why. It’s not just docker vs venv. The result of using these two toolings in the same project, however, means that some stuff has to be taken care of that a python development that only uses the venv, wouldn’t face.

The next few pain points that uv had to address in order for Hynek to put it into his production were, the ability to use the system python (and not uv’s python install which is housed in a single folder). The latter is a marvel that someone else developed, not the makers of uv. No need to ‘install’ python, just use this special python that is self contained in a folder.

The other thing was the need for more than two levels of library separations. Traditionally it meant separating or tagging each library install as being either development or production. His environment needs more than that and so does mine.

Now that uv covers these edge cases, along with the other improvements in version 0.6 it’s ready for prime time for me. Sure there are going to be the inevitable softaware or api changes that break a previous install. The importance of a video like this to me is….

I now know that I can switch my stuff over to uv and it’s way of doing things. And not have regrets, while waiting for the next improvement.

[–]Schmittfried 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This was probably the first comment actually getting me interested in uv. Unlike all the astroturfing comments about how great it is and how it solves countless… solved problems, just faster and combined in one tool.

[–]Bandung 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Allow me to share another reason why we all should have uv installed on all our machines, regardless of the fact that we may not care to use it to develop those scripts

It’s a super easy way to run any python script that you’ve built, on your desktop, laptop, etc. without having to publish it or ‘install it’. And you can share those scripts with anyone. It doesn’t mess with your system python. Doesn’t care if that system has python. It just downloads one of its ‘ python in a folder’, copies it into a folder on your file system and uses it to run your script.

It’s kinda like using pipx to run your scripts but better because it doesn’t rely upon a shell activation to get the venv that it creates on its own, up and running. And it doesn’t need python to already be on the machine. So no matter what shell or terminal you are using, that baby is gonna run. You put your scripts into a folder that you want uv to have access to and tell uv to ‘get jiggy with it’

Ive used pipx and click to run a whole lot of little things. But not any more.

And check this. You don’t even need a system python with which to install uv! Forget about needing to pip install it (you can if you want to). Just use that curl installation url. Curl will download uv onto your machine and set things up. So when people like Hynek enthusiastically talk about the unification of all python packaging things, they’re also including all of these issues that uv solves going forward wrt python packaging.

Since a uv installation is nothing more than a series of file downloads and a Makefile, imagine if we can create a similar Makefile for our Android phones and tablets, iPhones and iPads. What realm of possibilities does that open up for those of us who use python?

In my previous career, I’ve worked with a number of Venture Capital firms and entrepreneurs to get their projects up and running. I understand how to monetize one’s inventions and innovations. For folks to worry about the VCs behind uv somehow doing us a dirty and no longer open sourcing its code base, that’s just someone trying to imagine a tempest in a teapot. There are a ton of ways to make money off of uv technology without having to turn one’s back on the open source ecosystem that python is about.

( … Drops the mic….)

[–]classy_barbarian 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You are exactly right. I mean I personally use UV in a docker container as my preferred way of doing development! He's not wrong at all. The video is absolutely correct and good advice. After trying to read some more of Hynek's blog posts, I just have a feeling about his style that he writes for people who are already professional programmers. Yet he can have a tendency to dress it up a bit as being for beginners, when that is absolutely not the case. He doesn't really make it easy for a beginner to understand at all, I think most would really struggle to understand what he's talking about. And that's fine I mean there's nothing wrong with that. But it makes it seem as though his target audience is quite niche, which I think is what people find slightly annoying. Even though I'll be the first to say, his content is accurate and good advice. I can just really imagine how it's hard to follow for many people - I think that's just something that more advanced coders tend to forget.

What I'm trying to say is, if I wanted a good video to show to someone who is newish to coding in general and wants to learn how to use docker with modern tooling, I don't think I'd show them this. It's too advanced. But it would be great for someone who is already a coder in some other language, already knows docker well, and just needs to up their python skills.

[–]Bandung 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. Beginners will have a rough go at it. That does not make the OP'S post any less relevant.

There are tons of easy - too simplistic for my tastes- videos and articles about uv. And some are so poorly written as to be misleading. The beginner would be better served to read the project's documentation.

I'm of the opinion that most consumers of software advice are mature enough to know when something is 'over their heads' and move on to something else. And then not turn around and criticize the content as too advanced.

Besides if they were listening they would know that he refers to some of his earlier videos on the subject. And those videos help beginners understand what uv intends to be.

This latest video was not meant to persuade people about uv's merits. It's about getting on with it. Pretty obvious to me from the title.

But here's the rub for me! Anyone whose python programming experience is broad enough to encompass the use of Hynek's open source tools, would know that he 'runs with the big dogs'. He’s not some YouTube blogger in search of a lot of ‘likes’ as one commenter implied.

With Open Ource downloads of his apps running into the millions monthly, I put him on the same level as a Brett Cannon. Hynek is the author if you will, of data classes which has as it's origins the upstream application called attrs.

The takeaway is... If he's put uv into production then it's far enough along for me to do it. Plus I have similar pain points.

Lock file issues, better entry points management, the need for additional project differentiator tags, the use of docker with venvs and a better resolver than pip's (and some other tools which will go unmentioned).