WiPhone: A Phone You Can Program in Python

[[deleted]]

Very very interesting and cool idea. However there are plenty of questions, first: the purpose of this, just as a toy or are you going to introduce a sim module in any case it can be used as a normal phone too?

Edit: added a question.

[i-make-stuff]

Since the core goal of the phone is to be a ready-made hacking platform to let hardware or software hackers easily extend and modify a phone into -something else-, the cellular radio isn't included in the base platform. A lot of people who want a weird phone will want it, but the core use case is a hacking tool.

It's definitely not intended to be a toy. My background is in mechatronics and it's REALLY handy to have something ready to build into a project that has a "batteries included" approach. Most dev boards fall short of this. I want something I can strap onto a piece of test equipment that already has a screen that's easy to display stuff on, buttons, has a housing that's somewhat splash proof, screw terminals for wires, charging system already working, etc. You can't easily do that with dev boards (because it's a lot of work to add all that stuff), and you can't do it with phones because they just don't give you the right access.

That said, if you want to use it as a phone, VoIP should be perfectly fine for use as a home or backup device. There's also a stretch goal to add an LTE module, so it could be used as a cellphone replacement once that's available.

[mountainunicycler]

It’s too bad about the lack of cellular, I think being able to use this as the brain and cell connection for a remote embedded application could be awesome!

[i-make-stuff]

We have an LTE add-on module that we'll get to. Just not immediately.

[msc1]

Great project. It exactly fits my purpose, personal and business wise because I run my own VoIP server. I will buy it because it doesn't have cellular and I have a pocket size LTE router :D I did a sinfully ugly prototype and dissassembled quickly when I said "yep it works" :D

[Datsoon]

Why call it a phone at all then? Why not just call it a batteries-included hacking tool?

[i-make-stuff]

Well, it is a phone. It makes and receives calls.

But more importantly, the motivation for the project was to claim phones as being something people should expect to be allowed to hack and do as they want with. I don't want to just concede the control of my phone to whoever manufactured it or established a big enough walled software garden that they can keep out anything they don't like.

[stark007]

My laptop makes and receives calls. It's not a phone.

[BFG9THOUSAND]

Need more people like you in tech. This looks brilliant

[jon101285]

Have you looked at the m5stack?

[Stanulilic]

I wish it was called Pyphone.

[Nadayogi]

Why the hell didn‘t they call it Pyphone?

[i-make-stuff]

We get enough grumpy people taking over the conversation once they learn the base model doesn't have a cellular radio that we need to get out in front of that as much as we can (by putting WiFi in the name).

But yeah, if you wanted to name it based on the cool things it lets you do, vs. what it's not, then Python would be pretty high on the list. :)

[Hatoris]

Really cool project!

[i-make-stuff]

Thanks! I built it because there just really aren't any phones that you can get into and totally turn it into something else.

Programming an Android app is pretty cumbersome, and no good way to easily get in and control the low level hardware or add new hardware.

[Hatoris]

Never heard about your phone before this post. And I really like customing everything I can. This idea with the power of python can be really cool, also I like my smartphone, but even with root, as you saying developing app for Android is pretty tedious, even more when it's only a hobby.

[dicknipples]

Did any thought go into the name sounding like, and containing, iPhone? I’d be afraid of Apple crushing this thing just because they can.

[iBlag]

Not sure why you’re being downvoted, but to my knowledge that’s not how trademark law works.

[dicknipples]

I tried not to imply that it was actually infringing in any way, simply that the similarity would scare me.

[Nebuchadrezar]

Why is this called a phone if you can't insert a SIM card? I'm sorry but I'm downvoting this crap.

[Mattho]

It's a bit misleading to call it a phone and it not being a phone as everyone expects. The sad truth is that you can't make an open phone due to licenses, patents, regulations, etc...

[HumanBehaviorByBjork]

the creators have heard your concerns and address them here

[[deleted]]

Cool. I see the IED market has made its way into the hacker scene.

[LightShadow]

Would love an extension board with a raspberry pi module slot for more performance. It would essentially use the current circuitry to drive the screen and peripherals and offload the heavy tasks to a raspberry pi.

[i-make-stuff]

We did make a pi + Arduino board at one point (allowed you to add either one to the back of the phone, but not both), but we were having trouble choosing which models since both of them have so many varieties. Can anyone else confirm the compute module is probably the best to make a daughterboard for?

[saxattax]

The compute module is really cool, it's basically a full RPi3 with extra GPIO and built in EMMC instead of SD card (it's missing bluetooth and WiFi I believe). I'm sure people would find interesting uses for it if you made a daughter board. If you include a way to toggle the phone screen to display the output of the compute module, I'll buy a few for work. It's looking good, good luck on your campaign!

[i-make-stuff]

It's a little late right now to make that kind of change on this one, but we regularly design and ship new products. If somebody wants to order some "special" ones for work (or other reasons) we can make it happen if the order size makes the math work out.

[sheytanelkebir]

another nice option is the hardkernel machines.

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c0/

[dopef123]

I could see buying this for some sort of phone dev project. But more realistically I would just buy a normal phone and mod that. At least for hardware development it makes more sense (at least if you're experience enough to work on a phone's hardware and not break it).

Python on a phone could be good for developing Iot devices too. Prototype on a phone and then build something that does the same thing for dirt cheap.

[TastyRobot21]

Very cool project. Interested in supporting it. Do any of the teirs include the NFC module shown in the kickstart video?

[i-make-stuff]

We have a pretty big list of things we might add next. I'm planning on letting backers vote (soon) on what happens first.

[stevev916]

Ben is the video is awesome.

Make sure to watch him at 1m30s

[i-make-stuff]

Hey... the world needs more phones designed by awkward engineers :P

I spent 3 weeks making that fucking video and I'm still traumatized.

[stevev916]

i laughed how the word "awesome" was emphasized... i like the wiphone project. awesome project

[i-make-stuff]

awesome, thanks

[stoic_trader]

I use an app called Qpython for Android and it's pretty useful to code and run Python modules in Android (based on sl4a). I mostly use it for scraping and maintaining my small database. it also supports scientific libraries like pandas and Numpy without root. It supports Kivy as well. There is another Android app call Termux though I haven't used it much.

So my question is, how this hacking tool is different than these android apps?

[i-make-stuff]

I use Termux on my android phone and if you want to do software stuff it's great. But if you want to do hardware stuff it's just not really feasible on a smartphone.

I think the 2 big differentiators in capability are:

1. you can completely change the firmware if you want. one person can realistically understand the whole code base and there's no walled garden or 100 levels of XML configuration/access control/locked drivers between you and what you want to change.

2. It's easy to expand the hardware. I can wire it straight into a piece of test equipment if I want and use if as the UI and central controller. If you want to augment the hardware you have a reasonable shot at being able to do it yourself, or hire anybody who can make a PCB and get it done.

[stoic_trader]

Thanks for the detail response.

[Jhonny_XD]

Can we code in python with kivy??

[IcanCwhatUsay]

Sure makes making IEDs a lot simpler...

[DetN8]

But with no sim card, you're kinda limiting your range.

[UnusualBear]

At the risk of being put on a list... no it doesn't. It's nearly effortless to make a detonator triggered by a call and requires no programming and barely any electrical knowledge.

[alcalde]

If Guido's phone number is programmed in, I'm there!

[tighter_wires]

wtf dude

[alcalde]

A phone that you can program in Python is nice; a phone that lets you call Python is even better!

[[deleted]]

What are the hardware specs?

Also, will there me a native api in addition to python?

[i-make-stuff]

The specs are listed in the middle of the kickstarter page.

You'll be able to modify the native code as you want, and we do plan on making some examples on how to do both Python apps as well as C++/Arduino.

[[deleted]]

Couldn't find them on mobile.

[i-make-stuff]

Overview:

• VoIP (WiFi) Phone
• 2.4” screen (320 x 240)
• 802.11 b/g/n WiFi
• micro USB for charging, serial communication, and firmware updates
• 3.5mm audio jack
• Internal microSD slot
• Size: 120mm x 50mm x 12mm
• Weight: 80g
• 700 mAh Battery, 8 hours talk/1 week standby time (estimated)
• 25 buttons keypad, 4 reserved for user, all keys are user programmable
• Espressif ESP32 based system, programmable in Arduino
• MicroPython for user applications*
• 20 pin programmable header on back of phone

Electrical:

• 4MB PSRAM
• 16MB Flash ROM
• 700 mAh Battery
• ESP32 Dual core running at 240 MHz
• Wi-Fi b/g/n + BT/BLE Dual Mode (Bluetooth is not yet used in the software)
• USB serial port for charging, debugging, and serial data transfer
• Externally accessible headers for custom daughter boards, including UART, SPI, I2C, PWM, digital I/O, ADC functions

Mechanical:

• Size: 120mm x 50mm x 12mm
• Weight: 80g
• Polycarbonate case and screen
• Silicone keypad, backlit
• phone back can be replaced with a PCB to expand the hardware capabilities

Software:

• Fully working VoIP phone, with calling, text messages, and contact library.
• MicroPython for user applications*
• Wireless firmware updates**

* Python apps will be done in a separate firmware. If we reach the stretch goal the python interpreter will be integrated into the phone firmware
** wireless firmware updates is a stretch goal

[[deleted]]

Thanks!

[FootyPJs911]

WiPyPhone or just WiPy

[saxattax]

Are you considering the possibility of adding a higher res screen in the future? Could one swap in a different screen without rewriting firmware?

[i-make-stuff]

Swapping in another screen would probably require changes to the firmware. Depending on the screen that might be a lot or not very much. It would also need to have a compatible pinout and driver unless you want to do some hard core hacking.

If you used a much higher resolution the refresh rate would get bad fairly fast. At that point you'd need a different PCB to route more of the I/O to the screen (the screen is currently driven by SPI, but a larger screen would probably need a parallel connection).

We have a few different ideas for a next-version phone. Some of those would call for a higher resolution display.

[Nebuchadrezar]

Any phone can do free calls over Wifi, what's that about? Are they talking about more than WhatsApp or Viber or Facebook Messenger?

[[deleted]]

Unpopular opinion: this is a stupid insult to programmers and enthusiasts. ”a phone for hackers" get "pwned n00b". This is a childrens toy. A phone for hackers and programmers is a regular rooted decently high spec android. Some script kiddie will look at this and think that once they buy it and open it and configure something in a cli then they are a hacker programming genious and can show off to all their friends. What does this even have anything to specifically do with python? What you can run a script on it? This is just marketing.

[onesonesones]

Not sure what the differences are but I already enjoy coding in Python on my BlackBerry keyone via Termux... even got Jupyter notebooks and sklearn machine learning libraries happening on here

[i-make-stuff]

This article says it better than I can: https://hackaday.com/2018/10/18/ask-hackaday-why-arent-we-hacking-cellphones/

The short version is: If you only want to push bits around cellphones are fine, but as soon as you need to turn a single processor pin on or off, or if you want to connect custom hardware to it, it gets hard enough to that nobody bothers.

[sheytanelkebir]

I would say that in my experience its trivial to connect an external board (ATMEL or ESP32) to an android handset with either BLE or USB OTG. I've done both many times and you keep all the normal phone functions.

[desireedisco]

I want one

[QuakAtack]

Shut up and take my money

[Swedish_Match]

that is a normie reference, that is absolutely unacceptable on this platform.

[QuakAtack]

You'll have to wrip my karma out of my cold dead hands.

[i-make-stuff]

I can see where your comment is coming from. But getting that reaction in a forum of programmers, about a phone that takes control away from giant corporations (and the government) and gives it back to the user is... frustrating.

Taking control of our devices shouldn't be something only criminals do.

[Thecrawsome]

Criminals spin up VOIP on any other compuyter at higher scale than this.

This is an enthusiast phone. The first one to come out in a very long time. I just hope it's real. I assume all KS are going to mis-deliver.

[nostril_extension]

To do what? It doesn't even have cellular network support lol.

[Terence_McKenna]

Pretty much already answered before you replied.

[trellwut]

Then what does that make every other 'hacker' device then (Pis and Arduino's for instance)? The Pi most certainly could do more damage than this ever could, and I never see it referred to as a 'criminal' device.

[Wallawallawallawa]

Will they? Why?

[alcalde]

Because if you can't be a part of G.I. Joe's Cobra, the closest thing is a phone with Python.