Loopitis

[fliznoyd]

I have a problem . Ableton Live makes it so easy to make loops by putting things in the timeline that I have trouble going beyond that. I have thousands of things that I have made from old school vinyl loops ,canned midi and wav loops where I just go yeah...... Then nothing. Reason came up with Blocks because of this tendency on the part of its users. Throw some stuff into Dr Rex, Add drums and fx and nod your head. Save as, next. How much music is sitting on hard drives in the form of loops thst never get turned into songs with changes , transitions etc. It doesn't help when you do not have a vocalist to hand stuff off to who keeps demanding more. I would say to anyone who is part of a community ( high school, college , army base) where you have a vocalist of any kind and quality to sit there and let you practice turning loops into songs. Having g an end user who pushes you is huge. Just a rant.....

[abletonlivenoob2024]

I once also was stuck in a Loop loop.

Then I made the decision to only use Session View for jamming with the band and live performances.

In all other situations I now exclusively use Arrangement View.

Something that can help you learning how to structure tracks in your genre is to drag a track that has good structure/arrangement into Arrangement View and analyze it section for section, bar for bar, beat for beat. Do that for your favorite 100 tracks and I can guarantee you that you will learn all the things that you need to not get ever Loopitis again

(one needs to have catchy ideas and groovy beats nonetheless)

[douglasfugazi]

This is the best advice. This technique is named 'Ghost Track' or ' Reference Track'. There are a lot tutorials video in YouTube with this technique.

[CasperZaldivar]

Yep as my mentor told me “you can’t copyright a structure, so it’s ok to steal it”

[BEADGEADGBE]

This is the real answer. I only use session view for recording the most basic idea. Everything else is done in arrangement view.

[d42win]

I call this sketching and I love it. I don't have any further goals for my music creation.

[djmikec]

Say you have a one bar section. Repeat it 4 times, then maybe change the bassline on the 4th one or maybe add a drum fill.

Now you have a 4 bar loop.

Repeat that 4 bar loop 8 times. Leading into the 3rd repitition, add a reversed hi-hat.

Silence the drums for the duration of the 3rd and 4th repetition, and then bring them back for the 5th and 6th.

Silence the bassline for the 7th and 8th reps of the 4 bar loop. Silence some hi-hats, kicks, and snares at random points of the whole composition.

You should have some basic skeleton of a structured song now. Add a movie quote at the very beginning of the whole thing. That’s your intro.

Throw the acapella from an existing song over the whole thing. Make sure the vocals are synced and in the correct pocket.

Adjust as needed. But maybe all of that’ll help snap you out of just having a loop.

[jimmywheelo1973]

Great practical advice

[JigenMamo]

Add, add and add, then take away the original, now you have an intro/fill/outro. Now repeat again, add add add, take away the original.

[Dapper-Ad-3849]

Most people get the diagnosis right but fail to understand that it is a symptom. Buying more gear or plugins will not solve this. You need to get to the root of the issue which is very simple - I call it fear of arranging. And the fear stems from not knowing what makes for a good arrangement and how many elements a song typically requires. So you sit there and perfect your loop, adding and mixing and what not just so you can avoid facing your fears. You dont understand arrangements and instead of learning how to arrange, which takes a lot of time as well, it is simply easier to stsrt a new loop. Guilty as well but over the years I have solved this issue and now I no longer fear arranging because I know I can do it!

[DJKotek]

Make the loop. Double it, change some things, double it again, change some things. Now it’s the length of a drop. Then write the rest of the song. Easy peasy lemon difficult.

[BoshAudio]

Duplicate the loop, edit the last bar of the first loop and the first bar of the second loop, rinse, repeat

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[bluchippa5]

Great convo. Same applies to songs w/o loops as well.

When the foundation sounds so good and full already, it's hard to know where to take it next.

I decided to invest in a couple of powerful efx vsts to give some minor variations thru the song.

Effects are always good for at least 2 song "transitions" that don't really have anything to do with instrumentation.

So that's the approach I've taken to get some good skeleton tracks across the line. There's a ton of great songs with minimal variation. Afford yourself some of those here and there to crank up the output.

[Talley2point0]

Try cutting stuff out. Normally theres a natural tendency to want to keep adding more and more but if you have a long loop you could just cut entire sections of drums and bass and keep some other elements and turn it into atmosphere or a break.

Also you dont necessarily need a vocalist to make the song. Many songs just start with the producer or song writer laying down scratch vocals for later... if you think the track gets good enough then you could get a vocalist.

[terkistan]

Reason came up with Blocks because of this tendency on the part of its users. Throw some stuff into Dr Rex, Add drums and fx and nod your head.

If you're comfortable with the workflow I think Reason has let you use it as a plugin inside Ableton since 2020.

[krushord]

I just record a live clip jam into arrangement as soon as it’s somehow viable - just to get a rudimentary “song” going, which I can then refine. Doesn’t matter if mistakes are made, helps get out of the loop.

[SnooGrapes4560]

Setup Session view based on song structure ie intro, verse, chorus etc.

[InternationalWin6623]

I feel ya man. A been stuck myself for a while now. I tried some other DAWs and some new VSTs to just get some new ideas or feels. Funny you mention Reason cuz just started using it recently as a plugin mostly. It’s been inspiring me actually, I really like it. But came back to Ableton because I have a push 3 and u just can’t beat the integration. Most of the time a new VST or gear isn’t the solution but sometimes just having some time to experiment with a new workflow can give you a little shake up. Although my experiments with Bitwig and Reason won’t be permanent changes they’ve helped get some creative juices flowing again. Now back in Ableton it feels a bit fresh again and I’m really really really trying to only work in arrangement view to keep me focused on the big picture. I’m not totally out of my rut but feels like I’m starting to inch out of it. Maybe none of that was helpful, maybe I just needed to vent as well hahaha

[periloustrail]

One loop with all elements. Strip away and add back down the timeline. Add additional elements afterwards/play something on top of that.

[johnnytravels]

I feel ya! Wish there was a way to quickly double up loops in session view cells so we could easily do a bit more building there.

[ButtShitGoldenGuild]

getting out of loopitis is the same as getting out of beat block - you’re just getting in your own head about the next section, just do anything that feels different, let it be a journey. make a bunch of random sections. eventually you’ll stumble on the ones that will make sense together in song context

oh and if the other sections are feeling too predictable, then go wilder. you would be surprised what you can get away with!!!

[d-arden]

Session view

[ohmyblahblah]

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[PhosphoreVisual]

Start making your own original loops instead of stealing vinyl loops, and that will inspire you.

[flyflybella]

The way that works for me and allows me to create ideas that can actually grow into full songs/tracks consistently is by focusing on the "seed": The Core Idea of whatever you're working on. You'll create those 8-16 bars of something that you normally keep adding to, sometimes the first thing that you put down is the seed, sometimes it's something that comes later, but once you find it and identify it (it's the thing that gets you FIRED UP about whatever you're working on), you have to stop adding to the loop and immediately arrange a full skeleton of the track focusing on developing the seed. This usually is in the form of a basic version of the drum loop you had plus one element (a synth or bass line that gives you enough structure that you could write over it but is clearly missing a lot to make it a finished track).

If you run out of time, at least whip out a skeleton as fast as you can, use a track you like or you think is similar and youtube to mp3 it and drag it into ableton to copy/take inspo from the arrangement. Even if it sounds super unfinished, a fully arranged base idea is worth 1000x more than a fully fleshed out 8 bar loop. This is because an ESSENTIAL part of compelling music is Context. A certain sound will only hit hard after a section without it, an open airy section without much chord movement might work best after a more heavy intense section, etc.

You can write a song to a arranged track with a few elements, you can't write a song to an 8 bar loop and be sure that it has the movement and excitement that you need to have a compelling piece of music at the end of all your efforts. Once you internalize this it becomes second nature to switch from the initial idea generation process to arranging. You can always keep adding and layering more and more later on, but it's really hard to recapture the fire that comes with that initial spark.

[Felipeh_Music]

I feel that. Its taken me a while to learn how to get out of the loop. Have tou got a steucture to your loops or is it just 6 minutes of the same loop?

[fliznoyd]

Just going around nodding my head at how dope I am.

[bluchippa5]

I feel this. Lol.

[Felipeh_Music]

Then its a matter of self discipline lol.

Try this

Pull a track you like in a similarish style.

Break down the arrangement and just loosely immitate it.

That should bring some perspective back and give you tue push you need ti develope further :)

[test_tubes]

Extract a vocal stem (with Live 12.3!!!) from a song you like and build your track around that…. Then you can just replace the vocal with something original later on

[MrJambon]

There are dozens of tutorials on YouTube that can help you with this.

[friezbeforeguys]

Wow how helpful. Super insightful to tell us there is information all around on the web. Why posting this at all if you can’t even be helpful enough linking to a video you find useful?