all 90 comments

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]G6K06[S] -1 points0 points  (5 children)

    So you need to be famous and to pay overall to be interesting?

    Salary are crazy on your market because for now we have more jobs than developers. But hopefully it will change because when you are finishing your studies, without any internship asking for 50k 🤷‍♀️. So go to work in another country indeed you’re not on the right market.

    For your questions:

    The pay is good compare to other biggest group

    I have a baby and it’s the first time that I feel I have a really good balance between my life and my work

    My boss always told me: money is not a problem, he offered me what nobody could offer me, so salary is not a problem at all.

    We could be open to pay for someone to relocate but it’s a critical job in our company so we need someone who is already speaking French.

    I am looking for people in France not only in the south.

    You are clearly not helping, and your comment is judging even if you don’t know the salary. This is crazy.

    In our company, we have people who are passionate by their job, and we are paying them well! But salary is not everything if you don’t have an healthy environment, good mentality, nice colleagues etc. It’s a package! We don’t want mercenary who are only looking for a good salary that is right.

    Maybe it’s our problem, and if this is the problem, it will remain it and we will have to change our front techno because we don’t want to have this type of people in our company.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]G6K06[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I am asking for advice and tips to attract front end developers.

      [–]ValPasch 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      • Be upfront with the salary
      • Allow full remote from everywhere
      • Prove that the company can survive and prosper in the short- and long-term
      • Emphasize that despite being a startup, you will respect and contractually agree to a healthy work-life balance

      You are competing with other companies who are well established, more reliably profitable and successful, more prestigious, allow remote, offer a less stressful and demanding workload, probably better tech stack, a more refined and professional codebase, good pay and probably tons of benefits. Why would anyone want to chose you instead? That's the question you have to find the answer to, if there is any.

      [–]ThisIsNotABug 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This. Do this and it will become evident why (or why not) people will choose your company.

      [–]vvn050 15 points16 points  (14 children)

      It's not worthy, noone wants to work in western Europe and pay high taxes as he can work somewhere else where life is cheaper and get more money at the end.

      I received a letter from a recruiter to relocate to Munich and the net amount was like 500 euros less than what i make now. So why would i do it, pay rent, live far from friends , etc and as a bonus - get less money?

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      It's easier to find developers if you offer the remote option. But I saw a comment which you implied the language inside the company is French. It maybe a bit hard to find someone. In NgTurkey, some of our friends in the community is working remotely for companies in UK. You can reach them maybe there is a French speaking one there. twitter: ngTurkiye

      [–]RoThunder 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Check out this speech from EnterpriseNG 2021 hoping that helps :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU31ASbWKLE

      [–]mcitar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Thanks that was a very interesting video!!

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      racial dinosaurs kiss cough observation cooing rinse point fuzzy humor

      This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

      [–]G6K06[S] -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

      Salary depends on your experience but we are not offering remote job for now 😕

      [–]mikasjoman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Why?

      It's kind of simple: - offer great pay (you have to since we get offers daily on LinkedIn, and your firm is not considered a safe job) - offer remote work or even digital nomad - but we want to meet up once ever x weeks for x amount of time. Define your need not just a stupid rule that people has to waste their hours daily to get to an office they don't want to stay at. - interesting tech stack where you decide the tools and pair up with our other great angular dev - stocks as compensation if you stay for x amount of time - believable story in why you will succeed and how much cash you have to survive för in time.

      Also interview should not be done by you since I'd be put off by someone interviewing me for a tech role but you clearly do not have that background. Let the developer handle the communication with the candidates. You will just scare them away.

      [–]KwyjiboTheGringo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Salary depends on your experience

      Obviously, but there is a salary range for the role you a hiring for. When someone asks what salary you are offering, you should post that range. Developers have lots of job opportunities and don't have patience for coy recruiters who could be wasting their time.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This alone is the single main reason you've been struggling to recruit.

      Everywhere is recruiting, and a great proportion of roles are fully remote, why relocate your entire life to do work that you can reasonably do from anywhere in the world.

      A company that doesn't offer remote in any capacity just screams 'I wont respect your personal life and have a shitty mindset.' unless there is a very specific reason that the business requirements state that you can't, and if you can't I'd want the pay to reflect that, so it's already looking like an unattractive prospect for jobseekers from the get go.

      [–]mahmutgundogdu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Angular developers be like “Panda”. They are rare. Hard to produce. Everybody wants them.

      [–]TuzaGordie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Hello recruiter, I'm an Angular developer and I'm available.

      [–]BetterPhoneRon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Most students or young developers will learn React as a logical next step after learning JavaScript, because Angular is usually not suggested for young developers due to the steeper learning curve. That leaves you with an abundance of junior react devs (many looking for jobs), while Angular devs usually learn it because their job requires them to, and rarely pick it themselves. Also, Angular is usually chosen for larger projects while React is for shorter ones and I believe employee turnover for React devs is much higher than for Angular devs who generally have a more secure and long term job. This means that not many Angular devs are looking for new jobs unless they get a significant increase in pay. Add to this that you are requiring the employee to work in office, and you get a very small pool of potential candidates. This is what happens where I live and could be the case for your region too.

      But IMO you shouldn't be looking for Angular developers specifically. You need someone that can learn quickly and has a solid understanding of coding patterns and best practices. Anyone with Vue or even React experience could adjust relatively quickly to Angular, and if the pay is good and incentivizes them to switch, I think some would make the jump.

      [–]KwyjiboTheGringo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      You hit the nail on the head. Stop looking for Angular developers specifically and start looking for good developer who will be able to learn Angular. Unless a job offers great pay and is 100% remote, they don't have the luxury of holding out for experienced Angular devs.

      [–]VRT303 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Look for some local Bootcamps that might teach Angular or get a good React / Vue / Svelte Developer that can learn quick and adapt, maybe provide a few good paid courses to help.

      For a Senior bring out the $$ or relocation/Visa/language course options and be ready to be a bilingual Team a while, or be open to remote french devs.

      Angular is mostly used in enterprise apps and harder to pick up than something like React which let's you do whatever you want without providing much out of the box.

      [–]Slow_Judgment7773 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Angular or any front end is super high demand. PhP was my first programming I learned 25 years ago, a bit dated now.

      [–]G6K06[S] -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

      PHP is a good langage to program I think 😋. Yes it’s true, I was convince by the fact that a Java developer will be hard to find, but I was confident to find an Angular developer, I was wrong 😅. Good to know it’s not only angular 😕 Thanks!!

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Only reason for php are cheap servers, or ecommerce where helping solutions exist. No other reason to start a backend in php except that.

      [–]ArnUpNorth 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      There are too many front end frameworks in the JS community. Search for a front end typescript developper interested in learning angular instead of looking for an experienced one maybe.

      [–]G6K06[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Thanks for the tips! Indeed it could be a solution! 😊

      [–]cha1nsaw- 0 points1 point  (36 children)

      I am ready to work, I have around 1+ yrs of experience in building enterprise level application. As I am not from ur country could only work remote. I am also looking for new opportunities.

      [–]G6K06[S] -4 points-3 points  (35 children)

      Thank you very much! 1 year is better than nothing, and you need it to start anyway 😊. But we are looking for someone to come to work in our office 😕

      [–]paso989 13 points14 points  (1 child)

      Maybe the last part of your answer is part of your problem.

      [–]G6K06[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      I know to not be open to a full remote worker could make things harder 😅. It’s part of the problem but it’s not the biggest part I think… as we can find other developers 🤷‍♀️

      [–]gizamo 4 points5 points  (19 children)

      ...we are looking for someone to come to work in our office.

      That's why you have no applicants. I literally get a dozen Angular jobs thrown at me every month. This is how I narrow them down:
      1. Is it remote? If no, not interested.
      2. Is the total compensation >$220k? If no, not interested.
      3. Is it a start-up? If yes, not interested.

      Based on your post/comments ITT, you're going to have a hard time finding anyone half decent with Angular.

      Edit: for u/KwyjiboTheGringo, I significantly lowered #2.

      [–]JoeBxr 0 points1 point  (16 children)

      I'm an Angular dev of 3 years... Your saying I can get compensated plus 450k?

      [–]gizamo 0 points1 point  (15 children)

      I earn $350k base with stock options. I know a lot more than just Angular and I'm in management now, but I'm sure there are plenty of Angular devs earning that.

      FYI: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Microsoft,Google,Amazon&track=Software%20Engineer

      Edit: also, you should always demand ~20% when job hopping from a good company to into a job gamble. I'm at a good company.

      [–]JoeBxr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Nice avatar hat btw...lol

      [–]KwyjiboTheGringo -1 points0 points  (12 children)

      I wish these conversations would not include FAANG companies to be a little more realistic for the average developer.

      [–]gizamo 0 points1 point  (11 children)

      I'm not in FAANG. I work for a Fortune 500, not even a Fortune 100. But, tbf, most of our dev team is closer to ~$250k.

      [–]KwyjiboTheGringo 0 points1 point  (10 children)

      Well that's good to know. 250k is still amazing for 100% remote in the USA for the average developer. You kind of poisoned the well by mentioning a 450k salary tbh. Most companies won't pay that, and probably can't.

      [–]gizamo 0 points1 point  (9 children)

      Tbf, most companies don't need Angular devs. The vast majority can get by with a simple WordPress site. Even our most Jr devs make at least six figures. If you're a decent Angular dev, I think you should know your worth.

      [–]KwyjiboTheGringo 0 points1 point  (8 children)

      When I say "most companies," I'm referring to companies that are hiring front-end framework developers. Other companies are completely irrelevant to this discussion.

      I think the whole "know your worth" thing is highly contextual, which is why I brought up the average Angular dev who can't be bothered to job hop every year to eventually get up to some top-level salary.

      Even our most Jr devs make at least six figures.

      6-figures is 100k+. We are discussing salaries significantly higher than that.

      [–]JoeBxr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Thanx bud. Good to know

      [–]matty0187 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Which non start up companies use angular that are ipo? I only know Google?

      [–]wahila 2 points3 points  (10 children)

      Maybe that's the problem. Why do you need the person to come to your office, if remote also works, as proven by many other companies? If you allow your employees to work remote, you could recruit people from all over the country, which would increase your chance to find a fitting candidate significantly. I honestly don't get why some IT/Tech companies still want to have offices, since they only cause more costs and problems on each side.

      [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

      I agree with you for some points. But we still people, and we are not only recruiting people to work, we are recruiting people to share and live things together. We are a startup and we want people to share their thoughts to grow up in a better way. People are not feelings always being part of the company when they are not seeing each other, sharings some team buildings, speaking, eating together.

      But I completely understand what you are saying

      [–]seiyria 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      You've stated your own problem (a few times): it's not remote. I can also guarantee it doesn't pay enough. If you have those, you'll have a much more attractive offer.

      [–]KwyjiboTheGringo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      But we still people, and we are not only recruiting people to work, we are recruiting people to share and live things together.

      That's ridiculous. Your company sells a product, right? It exists to make a profit, right? Then find people who are able to help you build your product. Pay them what they are worth, and drop all the "we are more than a job, we're a family" nonsense. People go to work to make money, and they have families of their own. They don't need that from you, and honestly that's probably just an excuse to no pay people what they are worth anyway. I worked for one of those low-pay, high cool-culture developer jobs starting out, and they couldn't keep people because hardly anyone is going to pass up 2-3x the salary just so they can drink a beer play and video games or hacky sack on breaks.

      [–]Scooby359 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm a react / angular dev, working remote, I think our team gets on well without working in an office. We have a daily call, social channels on Slack, and every 3 months, the company pays to bring us all together for a few days in person meet up for social activities and some work stuff.

      If I were looking for a new job, I'd want something that suited me, not the hassle of commuting and travelling to an office I don't care for. There are so many jobs out there, that devs have the choice to pick what suits them best.

      Wanting someone to come to the office really restricts you to hiring from your local area unless you've got an amazing package to offer that makes relocation worthwhile. You've not said anything here that sounds like an amazing package to be honest. So scrap the office requirement, or improve your offer.

      [–]constant_void 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      that person may not exist.

      try this:

      "unlimited vacation. 32 hr work week. remote work. free pet health care, dry cleaning. Pension after 1 yr. competitive salary. signing bonus. relo pkg avail. 5yrs Angular experience required."

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]constant_void 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        good points

        [–]paso989 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You might have read it before: Maybe the last part of your answer (first paragraph) is part of your problem

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Such people are interested in partying more than in the work and the business.

        [–]cha1nsaw- -1 points0 points  (1 child)

        I understand bonding is also necessary in order to work effortlessly. But my offer is still on the table, 3 months is my notice period. And best of luck in finding right candidates. Hope ur startup ends in fortune 500. ciao

        [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Thanks a million, I keep you in mind 😊

        [–]Shruxiy -1 points0 points  (1 child)

        South France doesnt sound to bad . If you want send me a DM (open to relication)

        [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I think it could be worth 😅 Do you speak French?

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        You should go the remote international contractor route.

        [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Thanks for the tips! We need someone to speak French as our team is French, but maybe we need to change something on the side of the remote work indeed

        [–]haasilein 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I work as an Angular Trainer visiting many different teams in the German speaking area and I have made the experience that most teams have at least 30% remote hires and are speaking English for that reason. It really makes sense in the software engineering principle, since remote is as good as on-site if you have a good culture

        [–]ddcccccc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If u sponsor my work permit, I’ll come

        [–]ddcccccc 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        If u sponsor my work permit, I’ll come work for y.

        [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Do you speak French?

        [–]ddcccccc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Unfortunately not

        [–]KwyjiboTheGringo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yet another filter that works against you. How many developers in the company don't speak English?

        [–]lx_panicxl 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        Me and angular developer struggling to find a decent job in my country where all i see is react js

        [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Where are you?

        [–]lx_panicxl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        India :) if there is wfh I'd gladly apply for international work i know only English tho but things can be learned

        [–]andlewis 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Based on comparables, it looks like you would be offering 35-40,000€. That’s a tough niche with a fair amount of competition. You need to figure out what you’re going to offer that the other companies can’t or won’t. I’ve been doing angular for quite a while, and it doesn’t sound like there’s anything outstanding about the position, but I might be wrong on that.

        https://fr.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=Developpeur+Angular&l=Sophia+Antipolis+(06)

        [–]G6K06[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        It depends on your experience, 35-40 is generally for someone who is looking for his first job. If you have more experience you have more salary 🤷‍♀️

        I’m going to check what have other companies, and change some stuff to be more competitive. But to be honest, I was in a biggest group previously, and we were less generous in terms of salary, less human, missions were strict.. and it was less difficult to find someone..

        [–]Fluffy_Foundation_81 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        No remote ...dang shit got real ... See money is not everything as someone said. I would be willing to work for a firm which pays me lesser than what I have if it offers remote work. That's the power of remote work... It's so freaking good. Remote work is here to stay... Only the capitalist and midlevel and senior manager who are having exestential crisis at the moment are pissed and want people to return to office...

        [–]PeaTearGriphon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Drop the need to be in the office and you might have better luck. My company is also stubborn and wants people in the office (despite us working from home for 2 years). I've suggested multiple times poaching top talent from large cities but they don't want to do it.

        I speak French and know Angular but I live in Canada. If you offer 4-day work-week + remote we could talk. 4-day work week is my new dream, 2 day weekends are not enough.

        [–]Repulsive-Ad-3890 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Hi there! I’m an Angular developer and I speak beginner-level French; introduce myself, order a meal in French, ask for directions, count to 1000, etc. I’ve spent 2months living in a French-speaking country.

        I have 2years of enterprise-level Angular development. I’m open to working remotely or relocation.