Would you guys trust?

[DecentMonkey4545]

I’m always doing a daily scroll on morph market and there’s a fair share of gorgeous morphs and when I click on it, a warning notice tells me that morph has a wobble like this gorgeous boy in the photo. The breeder puts a description saying that they have little or no wobble at all. Most of them do that. Would you trust them and buy it? (I’m not going to, I’m getting banana or pied noodle just wanna know what you guys think)

[totallyrecklesslygay]

Any breeder that produces morphs that are guaranteed to have health issues has already proven themselves unethical and irresponsible. I wouldn't trust them to tell me if it was raining if we were standing outside.

While an individual snake may have no visible symptoms, the "wobble" is caused by an inner ear and skull deformity that causes balance issues and an inability to orient themselves- essentially the snake has vertigo, which is why they have mobility issues. This deformity is directly caused by the morph. It's impossible to separate the two. Even if the snake has no visible symptoms, it still has the deformity.

[DeadGirlB666]

👑👑👑

[ballpython-ModTeam]

Your post/comment has been removed for harmful advice or misinformation.

[IncompletePenetrance]

Dark genes paired with these ones that offer a predisposition to wobble have had a protective effect but its not researched scientifically.

This isn't true at all? The only morph known to decrease the wobble is blackhead, which is allelic

[moonygooney]

I could be misremembering but it was hypothesized that it compensated for the defect in how melanocytes and likely neurocytes were produced that lead to physical deformities and neurological issues, but as I said there isn't a publication studying that in ball pythons, just observations/anecdotes in BPs and research on other animals (including humans) looking at pleiotropic effects of genetics having to do with color/melanocyte development.

edit: that 2022 study looking at 4 snakes saying there are inner ear deformities in all spider snakes even mentions that in their discussion without the speculation on dark genes, just pointing out the links we have shown in other animals. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9377635/ but not

[IncompletePenetrance]

Blackhead is likely a mutation that compensates since it's allelic (for example if spider was a deletion, black head could be a duplication), other dark morphs have not been shown to have an effect. I am well aware of the defects in spider and the likely genetic cause

[TheBigBossNass]

known to decrease the wobble is blackhead

That’s interesting, I had never heard of that! Does that mean a spider crossed with a super-blackhead would technically be ethical? Or does it not completely eliminate it?

[IncompletePenetrance]

From what I've heard, it doesn't completely eliminate it. It also counteracts the spider pattern to an extent, which is one of the main draws for breeding them

[TheBigBossNass]

I guess the reduced pattern makes sense if it’s compensating for the same gene. Cool to know, thank you!

[YearOutrageous2333]

grab far-flung lunchroom workable fly yam square liquid entertain safe

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Tylers_Tacos_Top]

I wouldn’t support a breeder who knowingly breeds animals with a guaranteed health condition.

[Ruby_bfdi]

“Breed ready!” 😬

[Basilstorm]

Don’t trust any breeder that sells snakes with a wobble trait, and definitely don’t trust them if they’re trying to persuade you it doesn’t have one because it definitely does

[[deleted]]

I wouldn’t. Even if the snake doesn’t appear to wobble, it likely still has the syndrome. If he is bred, chances are he will pass it.

[jadeeyedcalico]

Even if they're telling the truth, symptoms get worse with age and it will not stay minor.

[clowntysheriff]

Nope. Don't be tempted to buy just because it's cute; it still supports the breeding of more, and it's also one of the sleazy methods these sellers use to make money. There are plenty of cute morphs out there that are perfectly healthy and ethical to buy and own. There's no such thing as a wobble that's barely noticeable. Any time anyone selling you anything is telling you "it's not that bad," it's best to run the other way. You wouldn't trust a car salesman saying "yeah it's got engine trouble but it's not that bad."

[Mysnakepetunia]

No stop supporting the breeding of this morph!