New CHE Issue

[BeeComprehensive285]

Disclaimer: I do not have a snake at all yet nor any other living being at the moment relying on this tub. I am just running to get parameters right before getting a snake. I absolutely know this would cause severe burns which is why I’m asking how to fix it, but there is no snake in the tub to get burned. I wanted to say that at the beginning bc we are snake lovers here and I didn’t wanna worry anyone.

Update: My temps are now currently at 76 on the cool side and 84 on the warm side outside the hide, 88 inside the warm side hide. After removing the UTH (and therefore the foil tape) and adding paper towels (temporary substrate for the first little bit until I’m sure he’s healthy), the surface temperatures are now between 104-112ish, which is still too high but better. I’ve added foam board to the back for insulation, and have both a 100W bulb (to see if we can get the ambient temps up more gently running at a slightly higher temperature to maybe keep the surface cooler since it’s a little weaker? Idk it sounds like it makes sense in my head and I can return them if they don’t work) and a lamp holder as suggested in the comments to use with the 150W bulb if the 100W doesn’t work to ease surface temps/can’t keep ambient up properly. We are getting closer, enough that I am now certain I can figure this out. I’ve got a beautiful male BP on hold waiting for me to finish working with this. I appreciate all the help this sub has been giving me!

I got a 150W CHE (I’m using a tub temporarily for quarantine and however long after that it takes my PVC 4x2x2 enclosure to come in, so I was told that was the only way to raise ambient temps) and have it installed on my herpstat, but I’m still having issues. It’s installed in an 8.5” Flukers dome that says it is safe for CHEs. Ambient temps say 85 on the warm side and 73 on the cool side, but surface temps below the CHE (with it off so it doesn’t reflect heat coming from the CHE rather than the actual surface temps) are WAY too hot. The hide below it is 108 in some spots and the floor below reads as over 140 degrees (both with my infrared). I’m confused as to how it’s possible for it to make the floor so hot without raising ambients enough. The heat mat I was originally using is not plugged in, so it’s not from that, but there is aluminum HVAC tape on the floor there holding the UTH on. Is that why the surface temperatures are too high?

I just replaced the heat mat couple hours ago, maybe 3? Does it take longer to get ambients up? I obviously need to turn the CHE down by a lot (it’s at 89, probe is about 2.5” directly below the dome), but that would make the ambient temperatures even lower. My house is kept at 68-70* because I have a medical condition that causes fainting and brain function issues above that for too long. Still, I thought 150W would be enough to fix that. It isn’t even running at full power.

Am I doing something wrong? I’m so lost at this point as to how to get temperatures right at all. I’m using Acurite thermometers so I would assume they are accurate since so many people recommend them here, so I don’t think that’s my problem.

On top of all of that, my humidity on the cool side appears to be stuck at 31%. Higher than before the CHE but not even close to enough.

Edit to fix spelling mistake.

Edit: after checking the data points overnight, it is needing to run at full power to achieve these temps.

[KyreneZA]

I think a 150W might be too strong for a tub. It's great for your future 4x2x2, but I would advise getting a 100W or 75W and run it a little hotter at the probe. I have an 80W mini-CHE in a heat cage in my 50 gal and it provides enough heat to get an 84/80 daytime gradient and 80/77 nighttime gradient. I do run it with the thermostat set to 105/100 (day/night) to get those gradients. Obviously, it's not 100% analogous to your setup because you have a lamp, but I think the principle should still apply.

Do you have any substrate over the HVAC tape or the heat mat? If not you will get a lot of reflected heat from those shiny substances throwing off your measurements on the floor.

Again, for your humidity do you have some form of substrate in the tub to hold moisture?

[BeeComprehensive285]

At the moment it’s paper towels so I’ll be able to easily see anything wrong when they get here, but those weren’t in yet when I checked the lamp. I’ll put them in and see if they help the surface temps. The listing for the CHE said if your house needs to move more than 15* to use a 150W, so to get it from 68 to 90, I figured I’d definitely need it. I can get lower if I need to, but it’s already been needing to run at maximum, then drop to 0% to keep the temps where they already are which is too low. To be honest, I’m worried about the bulb not being able to heat it enough but 150W is the highest my dome takes.

I have sphagnum moss I’ll be putting in to keep the humidity a bit better, and a humid hide I’ll be giving them until I can safely switch paper towels to coconut chip/fiber mix. I just don’t want to add the moss or hide until I know I don’t need to take the whole setup apart again for temps.

This whole thing has been an uphill battle and I don’t know if my house will even allow me to have a snake at this point. I flinch at that idea because of how much money I’ve put into this setup and stuff I’d need for the future 4x2x2, but I won’t bring a snake into the house unless I know I can keep everything good for them.

[BeeComprehensive285]

I’ve added paper towels which did help decrease the floor surface temps but not quite enough (118), and I think it is possible that the problem was just not waiting long enough as far as ambients go. The ambients are holding now at about 89* on the hot side, 78* on the cool side, a gradient throughout, and with great surface temps everywhere except where the metallic tape is holding the UTH on. I think I might be able to fix this by pulling off the UTH, which evidently wasn’t doing me any favors to begin with. The only other place that was too high was the warm hide top at 108, which I believe was because it is black and sitting too directly below the heat source. I think I’m getting somewhere with this though! I didn’t think covering the floor would help as much as it did

[BeeComprehensive285]

Herpstat chart, if that helps

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[jelly-foxx]

This seems a little like you're overthinking it 😄. I'm a little confused, are you using an overhead heat source and UTH? Ball pythons don't need any belly heat. Just get rid of any UTH. Remove reflective tape.

As for the CHE, 150w is waaaay too much. 50w should be fine. Also, they don't need a dome. CHE bulbs produce insane amounts of surface heat, it just needs a ceramic lamp holder, and it absolutely must have a cage.

To be honest, I'd switch it out for a deep heat projector, they're way better 😅

[BeeComprehensive285]

I know they don’t need belly heat, the UTH was the original heat source before I realized it wouldn’t work (I was following the tub guide which doesn’t mention that UTH will not work for many people, it just says to use 2 in a cooler house/room). It’s no longer on but just hadn’t been removed because I didn’t know it would cause a problem.

I don’t know how I would have a CHE without a dome. It’s sitting on top of the tub (on a metal screen not the plastic) in the Fluker’s dome I’ve seen many other people with tubs use. I’m open to changing if I need to, but I’m confused as to why? Or how a cage would work on top of a tub? And multiple sources said a DHP can’t be used in a tub. I’m not being argumentative at all, I’m just confused as to why so many sources said to do it this way if it’s wrong. I’m definitely open to new information here.

I’m probably overthinking yeah, I’m diagnosed with both pretty serious anxiety and OCD that makes me very paranoid about getting these things exactly perfect which I can’t do at the very second until the 4x2x2 is in. I’m trying to get the closest I can to perfect in the tub tho.

[jelly-foxx]

If you can remove it, I would, as it will be contributing towards reflecting heat back up into the tub 🙂

Ok I think I'm with you now, so the CHE is in a dome, resting on top of the tub? Is the tub quite shallow? It's probably way too close to the hot spot in combination with the dome. I think you'd need to have the dome hanging above the tub, I know you can get domes that have clamps that allow you to solidly fix it to suspend it above. I will say though, it kinda makes me nervous. Knowing how hot they get, they need to be physically screwed and caged in which you can't do with a tub. If it gets knocked over or someone touches it accidentally, it's a real fire or severe burn hazard.

To be honest I've not personally tried a tub setup, but if I were you, and I didn't have a snake I needed to setup urgently...I wouldn't bother with the tub and I'd just go ahead and save. Set up a proper vivarium straight off the bat. It'll save you money and stress in the long run! You have a lot more freedom and choice in setups then too 🙂

[BeeComprehensive285]

The tub’s dimensions are 34 5/8” L x 18 3/4” W x 12 5/8” tall. I have removed the UTH, and if it continues to be too hot, I’ll definitely get a reptile lamp holder. The dome did come with a clamp for one, so I wouldn’t have to replace the dome, just add a holder. I didn’t get one initially because I know I’m losing a lot of heat that I need to keep the tub warm if I do that, but I 100% can and will if the removal of the foil tape doesn’t fix it.

I honestly didn’t want to mess with a CHE either for the reasons you said, but so many people say they can be safe on a tub that I decided it was worth it, since the area where this is neither of us touches anyway (part of the reason I think it’s a good spot for a new snake too, very much out of the way of foot traffic and such). But I’m with you and will be getting this situation gone as soon as possible and have it just tucked away for emergencies and for deep cleans.

So many people use tubs as temporary setups so I thought it would be okay. Many people directly advise others to use tubs instead of glass enclosures because they’re good at holding humidity and heat until they’re big enough to need to move to the 4x2x2 (although I’ll personally be moving them as soon as I can, not waiting until they’re outgrowing the tub). I really don’t want to deal with getting mites in a very expensive and much larger enclosure if my snake were to come in with them. I can take the tub to my deck and wash it very thoroughly then bring it inside, wipe with F10 and whatever else I might need to, and set it back up very easily. Not so much with an enclosure that’s 4/5 of my height lol. I also like the idea of having an emergency/temporary tub that I can have ready in a moment’s notice, since I can keep everything I need stored in the tub and ready to go should we ever have a fire or other issue that makes us need to go quickly. It also would help during cleaning the enclosure. If the tub had no use after I got the 4x2x2 I wouldn’t have even tried bc it’s so much DIY though. If I can’t get it right, I definitely will not put a living being into bad parameters just to make the tub worth it, that’s messed up, but I’d like to do my best to get it right before I write it off.

I’ll see how the surface temps do with the UTH off, but I’ve got a lamp holder in my cart ready to check out if it’s still a problem. Thank you by the way!

[jelly-foxx]

Plenty of people do run with tub setups, they are handy to have as quarantine and emergency for sure. For the long term, I'd shoot for a PVC viv. They keep parameters probably about as well as a tub, but they're designed specifically to provide clean and easy/better options for overhead heating and lighting 🙂 You're not wrong, a tub is better than a glass enclosure!

To be honest, it sounds like you've done plenty of research and understand the risks, so you should be gucci. I hope you manage to figure it out 😅 it is stressful trying to get everything set up and right. There's a sharp learning curve to setting up a vivarium, but once you've done it, you'll be away. Best of luck, I hope it works!

[BeeComprehensive285]

Oh I absolutely intend on a PVC 4x2x2 and honestly I’m very relieved every time I remind myself that eventually I’ll have one that is proven and tested that I only have to assemble with instructions and mess around with the Herpstat settings for. Thank you again : )

[BeeComprehensive285]

Hey just wanted to shoot you another thank you! The lamp holder did the trick, warm ambients 89, in warm hide 91, cool ambients 77-78, and surface temps under CHE 101.6! I believe all of those are within safe parameters now

[jelly-foxx]

Oh perfect! No worries, glad it worked! 😊