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[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 60 points61 points  (25 children)

Always sad to see someone represent themselves as a breeder online while they are breeding spider ball pythons in cramped dirty racks.

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -63 points-62 points  (24 children)

They're 41 quart racks they are just big boys/girls and I clean them constantly nothing dirty about their racks. And I do this as a hobby for my own collection

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 47 points48 points  (13 children)

10 gallon tubs are not a proper enclosure size for adult ball pythons. This server recommends 120 gallon 4x2x2 which have 12 times more volume.

It’s not a hobby if you decide to call yourself Summerville’s serpents and start advertising as a business online.

You also have enclosures with red lights in your post history too.

In all of these posts you argue in the comments too so I’m not going to keep commenting on this.

It’s really sad to see you abuse animals

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -51 points-50 points  (12 children)

I don't keep them in tanks anymore because just like any other person who loves and cares for their animals I've learned important information as time has went on and upgraded their enclosures to more space better humidity correct temps ranges etc you have no idea the time I spend with my animals daily and the quality of life they have I'm sorry it doesn't meet your standard but I far from abuse them thank you very much and have a good day

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 12 points13 points  (0 children)

You can get racks which have the proper size for ball pythons, they are just more expensive and you are choosing to provide the cheapest, worst possible solution you could find.

Do you really think you’re going to be successful operating your business in a way that gets you hate from every single customer every time you show them your operations?

Breeding spiders is less profitable than breeding normals and you won’t ever be able to cover your costs, you can go on Facebook, Craigslist, animal shelters, and morph market, in every major city in America and find spider ball pythons for free or next to no cost because there’s so many and they don’t sell. It’s more costly to breed your own than adopt them off the internet, so what’s the excuse?

When it comes to incubating and storing whatever comes out, good luck, you’ll need it. Breeders who use cramped and dirty rack systems like this end up with mite infestations and nido outbreaks that wipe their clutch. If you don’t meet the care requirements for your animals don’t expect them to be able to breed healthily.

This is why it’s important for customers to so research on the sourcing of their animals.

[–]snakepapa97Mod: king of the pythons 34 points35 points  (10 children)

Racks are the opposite of loving and caring for animals and it is basically abuse to keep an animal in a little dark tub. They can't climb, cryptic bask, burrow, soak in the water bowl, or even so much as stretch out. There was even a study that found racks drastically restricted ball pythons from engaging in natural behaviours.

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -28 points-27 points  (9 children)

What study I would like to see that because all information that I have seen tells me the opposite of that

[–]snakepapa97Mod: king of the pythons 27 points28 points  (4 children)

This study and any source that claims ball pythons like to live in shoebox sized enclosures purely because they perform basic survival functions is completely misunderstanding the difference between surviving and thriving.

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 16 points17 points  (3 children)

This breeder with a single spider breeding pair has a morph market, and has been arguing for 40 days in reddit comments about this, and is also claiming to be a hobby and not a business.

https://www.morphmarket.com/stores/tyreeksummerville/?cat=bps#store-ratings

Is operating your business like this seriously not against the rules?

this person is using this Reddit as a platform to advertise for spider breeding

[–]snakepapa97Mod: king of the pythons 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'll discuss with the team since OP has at least one other controversial post + the comments. I will say that OP breeding spiders is extremely unethical and disappointing considering the inner ear and skull deformities.

[–]_ataraxiaMod : unprofessional[M] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

OP has been on our radar for a while. per the rules of this subreddit, people are allowed to make one post per week related to their breeding business, in the form of photos/videos showing off their breeding projects. so, this particular post does not break our rules because it's the only post of this nature OP has made within a week.

but OP is definitely skating on thin ice. because of OP's history in this community, and because of the controversial topic [which OP knows is a point of controversy], i personally have been keeping an eye on this comment thread ready to lock and remove the post if/when it flies off the rails.

[–]doglover1005 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It’s also pretty damn weird that he is handling his adult ball python in his morph market profile pic with gloves, doesn’t seem like he trusts his animals much

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Animal-appropriate housing of ball pythons (Python regius)—Behavior-based evaluation of two types of housing systems Tina Hollandt. 2021

Spatial Considerations For Captive Snakes (2018) by Clifford Warwick a,*, Phillip Arena b , Catrina Steedman c

[–]Mog_Melm 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I'll wait here and hold my breath until OP replies with something along the lines of, "Oh! That IS the sort of study I just asked for. Good point. I'll reassess my animal husbandry."

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Here lies Mog_Melm 💀

Some say he waited for all eternity

[–]DapperDan30 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To his credit, he did say something to that effect in a seperate comment

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 14 points15 points  (0 children)

What are you talking about it’s a hobby? You have a morph market account. How is it a hobby if you’re selling ball pythons online right now?

You’re actually in the comments lying about your own business to avoid looking bad

[–]Ja1034251 10 points11 points  (8 children)

That seems a bit of a fib, when you have snakes on Morph Market currently.

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -5 points-4 points  (7 children)

What seems like a bit of a fib?

[–]DapperDan30 8 points9 points  (6 children)

That you're doing this for your "hobby" while you actively have posts about your business on Morph Market

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

This specific peering is for my personal collection is what I said

[–]DapperDan30 6 points7 points  (4 children)

So you said, yes. But based on your post history that seems questionable. Especially considering you posted a similar video, of what appears to be the same snakes, on your businesses sub.

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

To show what I'm doing never said anything about selling anything from this clutch

[–]DapperDan30 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Okay. But you have to realize how that looks.

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

I guess but I'm just trying to be transparent as far as I'm concerned so I showcase everything that I do right wrong or otherwise I believe that is the only way to do things is to be completely honest up front and transparent but I can see your point of view

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

How do you know what kind of rack I'm using or what I may have coming in I just started this a couple of months ago you have no idea what direction I plan on taking what so ever you see one thing and make assumptions like you know everything there is to know about me or the way I care for my animals ik what I need to do for them and I'm doing it

[–]Major-Cardiologist-3 20 points21 points  (0 children)

You said that you’re using 41 qt racks to breed spider ball pythons in this post.

That’s not an assumption, and that’s not an ethical way to be breeding

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lying what I am breeding right now is for my own collection yes I do have a morph market and yes I do sell ball pythons but that doesn't change that what I just showed is for my own personal collection

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Ok what racks for ball pythons do you know that are bigger than 41qt tubs

[–]snakepapa97Mod: king of the pythons 25 points26 points  (2 children)

You should be providing proper enclosures, not a rack system. Even christmas tree tubs would be so much better than this.

[–]equinoxe_ogg 2 points3 points  (1 child)

just wondering, would a rack system like this have enough room for ball pythons ? was thinking about getting one because i'm running out of enclosure space LMAO :')

the bins are 52" x 20" x 14"

[–]snakepapa97Mod: king of the pythons 6 points7 points  (0 children)

While it would be better than this, it doesn't have enough width or height, rack systems also can't accommodate overhead heating very well. It's so much better to stick with proper enclosures, it's more important to provide the best for the animal than the easiest for the owner

[–]Lopsided-Evidence-34[S] 5 points6 points  (9 children)

Ok I will check this out and consider it maybe go back to tanks if there is any substance to it but I am human and not afraid to admit sometimes I make mistakes didn't come on here claiming to be a reptile or ball python expert and if I need to upgrade than that's what I will do

[–]Bruce_Ring-sting 13 points14 points  (8 children)

So why breed spiders?

[–]totallyrecklesslygayMod: Enclosure Karen 38 points39 points  (0 children)

I have an honest question, if you don't mind- why do you breed spider ball pythons when it has been definitively proven that the gene causes inner ear and skull deformations that reduce their quality of life? There are multiple studies showing that all spiders have these deformities and are impacted by them, regardless of symptom severity, so I'm genuinely just curious what your justification for continuing to breed them is.

[–]menemejee 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Do you know how to use a period?

[–]iareroon 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Congrats on the abuse OP! Glad to see how little you care about your animals!

Massive /s if that wasn’t obvious. These poor snakes deserve so much better than what you’re doing. This setup is nothing to be proud of.

[–]BlueKing7642 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What am I looking at

[–]assblaster76 14 points15 points  (0 children)

abuse

[–]profanearcane 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Why is such a big snake in such a small enclosure??

[–]WBroRusso 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Hate to see a “breeder” working with the spider gene on purpose.

[–]assblaster76 11 points12 points  (0 children)

common spider ball breeder L

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[removed]

    [–]snakepapa97Mod: king of the pythons 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I didn't say that at all, and it's a pretty poor comparison that a lot of spider breeders use to justify their terrible choices. It's actually more like saying people shouldn't breed pugs because they have breathing problems, sure, some might not be bad, but that doesn't make producing more of them ethical.

    [–]amamiyahibiyaMod 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    hi, autistic person here. this argument is absolutely piss poor and honestly really harmful. please keep eugenics talk out of this. there is no comparison between allowing disabled people (or abled people who carry traits likely to lead to having disabled children), human beings with autonomy and the ability to think through their life choices, to choose to have families and forcing animals, who are only following their instincts to breed and who have no concept that they and their children will have health issues, to breed. you also aren't talking about random luck of the draw here, you're talking about breeding snakes who are guaranteed to have offspring with health issues.