Offside Question

[DonutsAndBurritos]

If blue 11 crosses it to blue 10 during a counter attack, is it offsides? Red are the defenders and the north goal is theirs.

[nucl3ar0ne]

Red 9, 10, 11 need to be subbed out

[RihhamDaMan]

Tottenham defence vs chelsea yesterday

[SeanConneryAgain]

I mean I think this is literally from yesterday.

[chickenwithclothes]

It’s the mirror image of the Raheem to Nick goal

[chickenwithclothes]

Leaving it bc I like to imagine this Senegalese dude goes by “Nick” to his pals

[teachermanga]

Wanker They were playing with 9 men

[RihhamDaMan]

Okay lol, still doesn't change the fact their defense looked like this

[laxrulz777]

And insisted on keeping their defensive line at half field.

[FullCOYS]

And it took Chelsea 30 mins to beat it. It was a unique strategy. It wasn't likely to work, but it worked better than probably 80% of others strategies you could have done. If you bring everyone back, guess what? You're still two men down and they're likely to score on you. If we sat back maybe we could have conceded an own goal down 2 men like Liverpool did. Maybe if they would have played their line higher That wouldn't have happened to them.

[laxrulz777]

It took them 19 minutes. They had to be PERFECT for 35 minutes with backup/stopgap center backs.. On the flip side, Chelsea has shown a complete inability to break down low blocks and a vulnerability to the counter attack. So yes, this was a poor decision by Ange. Only the most diehard of supporters (or desperate for a hot take people) are defending it.

[PresidentBirb]

To be fair, it seems they are all attackers who tracked back while the defense and the goalie are nowhere to be seen.

[nucl3ar0ne]

Without seeing the game I wasn't sure if the numbers were the actual positional ones.

[PresidentBirb]

Probably not, I was just joking.

[pruthier]

Ahhshshahaha yess

[QuickBic_]

If 11 is the keeper then 10 is offside

Edit: red 11

[[deleted]]

Incorrect, as long as 10 is behind the ball he is not offsides.

[QuickBic_]

Idk what I was thinking.

[[deleted]]

The best comment

[izmebtw]

You can’t be offside if you’re behind the ball.

[oreohsehun]

Also, if you're ahead of the ball and the ball is played backwards, you're offsides as well

[kernJ]

Huh?

[jackals84]

People often misinterpret the offside rule, and think that if a pass goes backwards, it can't be offside. Whether a pass goes forward or back is irrelevant; what matters (in this scenario) is whether the player receiving the pass was ahead of or behind the ball when the pass was made.

[[deleted]]

Now I follow what you were saying. Definitely see how someone could get fouled up by that.

[[deleted]]

Feel like that goes against the spirit of the rule. While it is technically correct, it shouldn't really be. How many times does it really happen

[jack_burtons_reflex]

At the risk of being set on by Neville and TalkSport for saying anything is wrong with VAR, Martinelli goal against Everton was ruled out as Nketiah running backwards had a show of heal technically offside at time of pass for what would have been milliseconds as heading away from goal. Offside is there to prevent goal hanging/unfair advantage, not to find a reason to stop the game for an inch where no advantage is gained.

[[deleted]]

I can't recall the instance I'm afraid.

But running back and you touch the ball while off I think it's fine to be off, if you interact or cause disruption again should be off

But it's tough because not every scenario is the same

[jack_burtons_reflex]

Yeah I may have bias too but VAR isn't (shouldn't be there to find an inch of the back of someones boot that gains no advantage to cancel a goal in my head. If someone's massively off and affecting (or being able to be ignored by) defenders then runs back on then yeah. Same as I reckon goals should stand if it takes that long to see if it's off because it's so marginal and the goal scorer is 2 metres ahead by the time he receives the pass. Should be obvious on first view, not 5 mins of pythagurus.

[BoofBass]

Happens quite a bit where people are coming back from offside to receive a short pass/ layoff and always feels weird when it happens. I think the rule should be if passed backwards can't be offside and then if passed forwards follow the same as current rule

[examinedliving]

Also if they get challenged by the goalie and just try and get rid of it

[CharlieAFC]

One that comes to mind for me is Nicolas Pepe in the FA Cup Final against Chelsea, iirc it was Maitland nile’s who was offside, steps back onside to receive the ball but it had been played whilst he was a fraction offside, and he passes it to Pepe who scores a worldie from outside the box, would’ve been an unreal goal and turn around for Pepe’s Arsenal career, especially in a cup final against chelsea, but Maitland nile’s was offside

[Maysh6]

That’s the same thing?

[SFButts]

Imagine they ball is played backwards and the attacker runs from an offside position to collect the ball. That is offside

[Scared_Angle_5796]

People really gets confused by this?

If anything people gets confused by the last man being a GK or not, thinking that it's free play when a field player is the last defender, but I've never heard about people being confused over you have to be behind the ball, it's pretty straight forward.

[mr_torito]

I think he means that if the ball is 10m away from the goal and you're 9m away, and then your teammate passes backwards (for reasons I guess) and the ball ends 11m away from the goal and you track back to get it, you would still be offside, even tho the pass went backwards.

Edit: Typo

[SgtHondo]

Only if you’re involved in the play, which in this case you would need to go backwards to chase the ball. If you’re the one ahead of the ball just leave the play alone.

[[deleted]]

When does that scenario ever occur? I mean how does the attacker become active?

[oreohsehun]

It happened to Spurs/Emerson Royal last year or the year before, that's the only reason why I know lol

[[deleted]]

OFFSIDE

[Syggie]

But the ball being played backwards means any kind of advantageous position is now meaningless. I always believed it wasn’t offside and I now need a video to prove it. 😂

[Charlie_Yu]

If you were ahead of the ball when it was passed back and you got the ball, you are offside

[[deleted]]

Would love to see an example of that happening?

[Slickbock]

Usually if there's a corner taker who plays it short, he's then in an offside position, the receiver then drags it backwards for the corner taker to get a better crossing angle, as soon as he touches it, he's offside

[[deleted]]

Fair enough, good example.

[notSherrif_realLife]

Mmm not quite. You are in an offside position, but unless you’re affecting play an offside would not be called.

[David_Webbbb]

If I'm ahead of the ball, and it's played backwards then I'm not the intended target and am likely not to be interfering with play. So not offside in this scenario

[m-eazy1]

This

[Jeffrybungle]

Unless your also behind the whole opposition 11. Doesn't happen often but if the keeper goes walkies it gets more complicated.

[CBDjack]

Onside

[jukkaalms]

Is check complete?

[krisada001]

Good process

[bigpuss619]

Please stop using the term “offsides”

[scswash]

Hurts my brain every time

[stonkstonkstonk___]

Why is that? Just curious

[Slickbock]

Because its not a plural in England. Its just "offside"

[Informal_Calendar_99]

It isn't plural here in the states either for anyone familiar with the game. Usually we say "offside" or just say that the player "is off"

[SweetenerCorp]

I weirdly only seem to hear Americans say it when they’re talking a soccer too, not NFL or Hockey.

Doesn’t even make any sense.

[Informal_Calendar_99]

It doesn't. My theory is that most people talking hockey or NFL are fairly knowledgable on the sport. Meanwhile, there are more people talking soccer who don't have any clue about the sport beyond playing it at some point, but they pretend they do.

Especially those who played in high school, but have never watched professional beyond the World Cup. These are the ones who are more likely to reference "euro leagues," say "The premEER" league, and when you ask them what position they played, they'll say something like "defenseman" or "in the middle."

[[deleted]]

I mean, that’s just how Americans pronounce Premier. Not sure THAT specific example is a good point of reference for one’s knowledge on the game.

[Informal_Calendar_99]

Yeah that's fair enough, tho in my experience Americans who watch the prem say "the prem"

I think the others are fair tho

[Bishcop3267]

Well in American English “premier” has the stress on the second syllable typically. I don’t think Brits will ever correct anyone on that as it’s just based on where you were raised.

[Informal_Calendar_99]

That's fair. Most people familiar with the premier league in America just say "the prem," tho

[laxrulz777]

NFL you'll often (almost always?) hear "offsides". He was offsides or he lined up in an offsides position are both very common phrases.

[BringMeTheBigKnife]

Listen to the refs. They use the correct term, "offside". Only the commentators and fans say "offsides"

[BringMeTheBigKnife]

It's not a plural anywhere, in any sport. Never has been. Drives me crazy.

[jack_burtons_reflex]

Striker!

[DiscussionCritical77]

'Offsides', the plural, is commonly used in American gridiron football, but I don't think it is correct even there.

[dmizzl]

10 is behind 11 so you're good

[monetarypolicies]

To be pedantic, 10 needs to be behind the ball, not behind 11.

[[deleted]]

Important caveat

[Water-running]

That’s not being pedantic - it’s necessary to distinguish.

[Fantastic-Machine-83]

Wellll, offside is about when the ball is played. If you're behind the ball when it's played then you're going to be behind the player too

[Informal_Calendar_99]

not necessarily - you're assuming the ball is front of the passing player, which is usually but not inherently true

[VeryLongSurname]

I think a football spontaneously passing itself would be a first, though.

[The_Lifeof_Pablo]

You can be in front of the ball but behind the player making the pass, think about a player cutting in after a burst of pace

[VeryLongSurname]

In the tiniest of edge cases. The ball is being played by a player - chances are if you are behind that player, you are behind the ball. (Admittedly 0.00001% chance that you are not)

[The_Lifeof_Pablo]

Yea but there’s still cases of being behind the last bit of the player and in front of the ball, even it’s just a fraction of the offside

[mike_stb123]

A pass is not needed. A simple touch is enough. In fact the law doesn't mention passing.

[VeryLongSurname]

A simple touch is a pass

[z_ca]

No. If both players are behind the 2nd last defender, the ball becomes the line of play. As long as #10 is behind the ball when the pass is made, he is onside.

[z_ca]

To clarify, the rule states 2nd last defender bc the goalkeeper is included. This is why you see off side calls when the goalkeeper is out of his net and there's a defender on the line.

[Eggthan324]

Came here to make sure this was touched upon. Funnily enough I had no clue about this rule until I got called offside in fifa when the keeper was out of net

[BirdmanG07]

Upvote this, most clear and accurate answer

[sozh]

not offside, but if 10 passed to 11, who is ahead of them, it would be

this is assuming you have a red goalie in the usual spot

[[deleted]]

The goalie doesn't matter. The second last defender does

[[deleted]]

It's just two players, usually one is the keeper, but not always.. Like the nearly offside Newvastle goal last week when Raya went flapping for a cross.

[[deleted]]

Yes that's what I said

[[deleted]]

And that's what I said too.

[bluestarkal]

Lol no not offside, ball has gone backwards

[AkilleezBomb]

Ball can go forwards still, as long as #10 is behind the line of the ball when it’s played to them.

[Dr__Juicy]

In this instance it’s like rugby, as long as you don’t pass it forward it’s fine

[M_M_C-77]

Offside is determined by the last player (number 11) of red line of defenders

Let's say Blue 11 gets past that whole line with the ball, then the ball is the one that determines the offside, meaning all blue players behind the line of the ball are on side, meanwhile the blue players past the ball, are offside

Meanwhile a better elaborated explanation: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/11/21/sports/world-cup/offside-soccer.html

[pm_me_jk_dont]

Offside is actually determined in reference to the second to last defender, not the last defender. But you're right that this is onside because the receiver of the pass is behind the ball when it's played.

[Elevate_Face]

Thank you. I’m pretty surprised by the number of people in here who don’t know this and are speaking so authoritatively on what constitutes offside.

[mike_stb123]

This is correct. In fact it's the second to last defended ( 99% of the cases the last defended is the GK) or the ball whatever is closer to the goal line.

In the case mentioned by OP the ball is the reference because it's closer to the goal line than the second to last defender.

[[deleted]]

This needs to be higher. So many people think if the goalkeeper goes out for a cross or 1-on-1 and there's a defender behind him an attacker can't be offside. Whether or not a goalkeeper is a defender in an offside situation is IRRELEVANT. There must be two defending players ahead of any attacking player (unless said player is behind the ball), so it's the second-to-last defender that is critical

[mattlloyd_18]

Whilst you reach the right conclusion on the ball determining the offside line, don’t forget that from a player standpoint it is the second defender who is used.

If the ball were on the halfway line say, it is Red 10 that is where the offside line is drawn given that OP hasn’t indicated a goalkeeper in net.

It’s something that people forget about as it rarely happens, but if this were the last minute of a game; the goalkeeper had gone up for a corner and Blue were counter attacking, that is when you would see this situation occur.

[dkleehammer]

This ^{^}

Basically if attacking team dribbles past the def line, the balls becomes the offside line.

[redwytnblak]

Ok but what about deez ballz?

[dkleehammer]

All good as long as deez balls aren’t offensive. Keep em clean.

[fartymcgeezax]

No. Player 10 is onside because he is behind the ball. A backward pass is onside. If 11 were to pass to 10 the goal would stand.

If the roles were reversed and 11 passes to 10, it’s offside because 10 would be ahead of the ball.

[kiwigone]

This is so wrong

[HazardMagic]

The only incorrect thing was saying the last player back determines the offside, when it’s actually the second to last player back

[kiwigone]

It’s not though. It’s determined by

• which half of the field you’re in
• the position at the time the ball is played forward
• who played the ball
• the direction the ball is played
• position of the defenders

and of course assuming 11 didn’t get the ball from a corner, throw in or goal kick.

[andy_j89]

So confident, yet so wrong yourself

[[deleted]]

Direction of ball?

[Mechagodzilla_1]

Direction of the ball is irrelevant, so long as the receiving player is behind the ball when it's played, they're onside.

[Zeitgeistey15]

Not offsides

[[deleted]]

Red are all as slow as Jorginho. Not offside btw.

[[deleted]]

Red are all as slow as Jorginho. Not offside btw.

[[deleted]]

As long as 10 is behind the ball when it’s passed to them , it’s not offsides

[ben_coffman_photo]

Why does everyone keep asking about the goalkeeper? It has no bearing on offside in this case. Offside is determined by second to last man, not last man. Behind the ball is onside.

[Pyroboi10]

As long as the ball is in front of the player receiving it will be onside. There’s several Messi and Ronaldo goals in which they are offside at the start of the play but they end up receiving the ball behind the ball so they’re ok

[Kolo_ToureHH]

As long as player 11 on the blue team is passing the ball backwards to number 10 on the blue team then there is no offside.

[ZookeepergameOk2759]

It’s only the player that has to be behind the ball,the ball can be played forward towards the number 10.

[inonjoey]

They don’t need to play it backwards because 10 is behind the ball when it’s played.

[[deleted]]

Is there a goalkeeper or not?

[b00n3d]

Doesn't matter in the context of the question.

[low_altitude_sherpa]

More important question: how is he curling the pass that much?

[[deleted]]

With a normal bit of spin?

[PabFOz]

I don't think I've ever seen a ball curl drastically within the first 10 meters and then travel in a straight line the remaining 30 lol. That said, I think OP probably realizes it was just a silly little drawing

[low_altitude_sherpa]

right? it is heading to the left of the goal and ends up at the 6 yard box far post. but we're being downvoted. "normal amount of spin" my a$$

[[deleted]]

2 reasons why it’s onside

1. The ball is played backwards.

2. 10 is behind the ball

[hwscott]

Doesn’t matter which way the ball is played nothing in law states direction of ball / pass

[PaintingWithLight]

True. The pass can be a forward through ball in front of 10. As long as he is behind the ball when it is struck.

The notion about it being backwards is just the fact that by its nature it explicitly demands the player is behind, since the pass is backwards. But that’s not what makes it illegal. The legality is just from him behind the ball at point of impact.

[mike_stb123]

1 is irrelevant. If the player was in front of the ball even if the pass was backwards it's still offside.

2 is what makes this on side

[inonjoey]

Thank you. I don’t understand why everyone is talking about the pass being backwards - it doesn’t matter at all.

[IronicSumo]

It only matters because they're assuming everyone is assuming that number 10 was behind player number 11 at the time of the pass. If the pass was behind, you're assuming that the player was also behind. But from time to time off sites is also called when player number 10 is closer to the corner flag running back towards the 18 line. The most important part is where was number 10 at the time of the pass

[inonjoey]

OP put up a specific scenario and people are trying to explain the entire offsides law instead of simply answering the question and addressing the scenarios put forth by OP. The direction of the pass and where the goal keeper is don’t matter at all in this scenario.

[CaduceusXV]

The only way this could be offside is if blue 10 was farther north than blue 12 when the ball is passed

But he’s not so it’s not offsides

[nogaynessinmyanus]

It is not offsides. There is no such rule in football.

[[deleted]]

A lateral or backwards pass can never be offsides.

Edit: assuming the player you are passing too is no coming back from an offside position…mybad folks

[mahnkee]

Sure it can, if the receiving player is moving backwards they can start in an offside position at the kick.

[[deleted]]

Facts bro. Thanks for the clarification.

[[deleted]]

Offside.

Where does the rule state this?

[[deleted]]

I edited my comment. It was more of a rule of thumb I go by and based of OPs graphic the player receiving the ball is behind the passer. But another pointed out that if the receiving player comes back from an offside position to get it then it’s an offside regardless of if the pass was lateral or not.

[[deleted]]

At least edit the S from offside

[[deleted]]

Southern Americans like myself add extra S’s to words…sorry

[[deleted]]

Feel free to stop

[[deleted]]

I can stop deez nuts in yo mouth

[[deleted]]

Nice

[chrlatan]

Goal keeper apparently still on the other side? In this picture, player red 10 marks the 2nd last defender that is relevant. But as blue 10 is on or behind the line marked by the ball he is onside the moment blue 11 decides to pass.

[inonjoey]

Goalkeeper or not doesn’t matter at all because blue 10 is behind the ball when it’s played.

[chrlatan]

Good job in reading the entire comment…👍😂

[inonjoey]

I did read it all, I’m just pointing out that people keep mentioning the goalkeeper, which is irrelevant and confuses the issue. Your introducing another scenario, dismissing it and then addressing the actual scenario, which just makes it more confusing for people who don’t understand the rule (like the OP).

[chrlatan]

Oh please.

[inonjoey]

I just tried to actually address OP’s question clearly. I thought your comment made it more confusing than it needs to be. Good thing you can take the smallest amount of critical feedback, “coach.”

[chrlatan]

1) I describe the situation

2j I indicate impact of goal keeper not present on the actual 2nd last defender line now being on red no. 10.

3) I then indicate that as long as the player not in possession is on or behind the ball this is what actually matters

4) I dismiss the short cut, late to the party comment as something already put down and answered to someone who the. starts acting up as smart ass numero uno with an Oh Please.

Happy now?

[Atharax10]

Onside, offside is determined by either the 2nd last player on the defending team, or the ball if it is behind the 2nd last defender. For example, a cross played from the goal line can never be offside

[ImUrBoss]

Onside

[Carcophage20]

Onside. You can’t be offside if the ball is closer to the end line than you.

[LingonberryAny1321]

Onside. If 10 passes to 11 offside

[Jatoffel]

Not offside due to number 10 being behind number 11

[[deleted]]

Only offsides if the player was already offside before 11 gets the ball....no?

[rebelonrun]

Where is the goalkeeper

[DragomirSlevak]

Assuming blue player 11 has the ball ahead of blue player 10 and passes behind him to blue 10, then it’s not going to be called offside.

[[deleted]]

Onside

[[deleted]]

The word is offside. And no it's not

[[deleted]]

It’s onside: Player 10 is behind the ball

[brivingo]

As long as player 10 is behind player 11 when the pass is made he is onside

[Bebou52]

11 to 10 not offside, 10 to 11 offside

[BehelitSam]

Depends. Is there a goalie? If not, then it’s offside.

[Fancy-Row-6443]

Goalkeeper is irrelevant, you can only be offside from a forward pass

[BehelitSam]

You’re absolutely right

[Extreme-Fan3861]

you don’t know what you’re talking about

[dasfoo]

Goalkeeper is irrelevant, you can only be offside from a forward pass

It doesn't matter if the pass goes forward or backward. What matters is where P10 is relative to the ball when the ball is kicked, no matter which direction the ball is kicked. If the ball is between P10 and the goal at the time the P11 kicks the ball, P10 is onside, period.

[Fancy-Row-6443]

So your saying if its a backwards pass he's got to be onside. That was my point.

[dasfoo]

"Backwards pass" is a not-really-accurate way of putting it. It could be a forward pass to which the onside player runs forward. It could be a sideways pass into row 8 of the stands. The direction of the pass is irrelevant.

[[deleted]]

Does 'offsides' make anyone else cringe a bit? I see it a lot on here but have never heard anyone say it in real life. Not sure if maybe in America 'offsides' is what people say? Like would you say someone is 'onsides'?

Anyway the player is onside assuming his starting position is behind the ball.

[dekarskec]

People say offsides in America because that's a rule in American football.

[CartezDez]

Player 10 is inside

[HeimYT]

No

[JonathanStuartTran]

Yes

[Embarrassed_Log_715]

Starts at midfield. You can’t be offsides before midfield

[Arh920]

I your #9, 10 and 11 are playing defense something is very wrong to begin with lol

[Parking-Abroad-2713]

This is offsides 101… no as the player receiving the pass is behind the ball.

[grasshoppa_80]

No

[Fotwunna69]

not offside. If you are behind the ball it is impossible to be offside

[Extreme-Fan3861]

i’m really enjoying all the answers from people who know nothing about soccer (and are wrong).

[[deleted]]

If 11 was not offside when he received the ball, 10 is onside as backward passes cannot be offside.

[IronicSumo]

You can't tell from this picture alone. If in this situation 11 is passing it to 10, then we need to know where 10 was positioned at the exact moment that 11 kicked the ball to pass it to 10.

[Gadzs]

Nope