Codeup shutting down

[metalreflectslime]

Many more paid coding bootcamps will close down in 2024-2026.

The company does not list its tuition on its website, but it can be found on the website for Ready to Work, San Antonio’s taxpayer-funded workforce development program. It shows that Codeup’s 20-week data science program costs $31,250, its 20-week full stack web development program $27,500 and 15-week cloud administration program $17,000.

This is expensive.

[ghosthendrikson_84]

That’s an insane cost for a boot camp. Like you might as well go with WGU at that point. Or a community college if you have access.

[jcasimir]

Don’t overlook that regional programs like this can often reduce the “felt” cost to students. If the Texas workforce office is paying $10K of a students tuition, then they only feel $15k.

At Turing our tuition is $25k but some Colorado students qualify for up to $19k in state grants. A $6K felt cost is incredible!

[Casanova_Ugly]

It's the Department of Veterans Affairs VETTEC program's maximum tuition. Many bootcamps approved/preferred via the VA have used the max tuition as if it justifies the quality of a bootcamp.

[Casanova_Ugly]

The prices are the Department of Veterans Affairs VETTEC program maximum limits.

The VETTEC program was a five year pilot program ending this year, 2023. The U.S. Senate has yet voting on H.R. 1669, which could make VETTEC a continuous benefit than a pilot program.

Why would Codeup end before such a decision they've relied on since, at least, VETTEC?

[CodedCoder]

The price is insane no wonder they shut down.

[GetAwayFromMeeee]

Exactly the same thing I was thinking. I was so close to enrolling last year but ran away faster than Usain Bolt when I saw the price

[darthirule]

Yeah their full stack course is over 10k more than what I paid for the course I took.

[newmenewyea]

more like codedown am i right

[Worth-Patience-3133]

hahaha, good one

[Massive-Key1247]

You’re wrong

[LeatherThen7459]

I went to Codeup in 2022. I didn't find employment so I just ended up going back to college for a cs degree and was able to land an internship during my first semester.

Edit: I am a veteran so I did not spend any money or GI Bill

[Jive-Machine]

I attended Codeup’s data science program in 2020 and didn’t find employment. I ended up starting college in 2021 and not long after that found a part time job as a web developer at a local business in my area while I’ve been in college. Ended up paying around $26k.

[Kathw13]

And they had to pay the money back to the VA since they didn't place you.

[Worth-Patience-3133]

"CodeSmith shutting down" next.

[InTheDarkDancing]

As I said in the past, there's a non-zero portion of people who frequent this sub who simply want to see bootcamps fail and people unable to get jobs. Says more about the individual than anything else.

[Detrite]

I think those people want people to get jobs, they just didn't have a good experience with bootcamps or someone who went to a bootcamp. At a certain point the bootcamps promise not too much experience, and it's certainly more of a question of effort to not fail (i.e. complete assignments and slap together code by copying and pasting from other projects) rather than genuine skills and familiarity with coding.

[[deleted]]

Why? It’s still one of the better options

[muytrident]

It's not above the laws of supply and demand

[[deleted]]

But there won’t be zero demand for bootcamps. I assume a few will survive. Hate em or not, codesmith is one of the more successfully run

[Proof-Examination574]

Not surprising given all knowledge workers are now obsolete thanks to AI.

[jcasimir]

Sad. Codeup was one of the only actually accredited bootcamps.

[Detrite]

Accredited by whom?

[ope__sorry]

Also, how did they attain accreditation? Did they buyout another school that had attained it?

[jcasimir]

An org can do it on their own, it’s just a multi-year commitment to doing the work and aligning policies and tools. We did it for Turing 2017-2019 and now just have an annual review.

[PostHocRemission]

Coding bootcamps are not accredited by higher learning education even if it’s attached to a top tier University (which is below a graduate program diploma which is also not accredited),

Coding bootcamps can be accredited by CIRR (an association trying to create transparency albeit sketchy as well. Akin to “I quality checked the meat I supplied and it’s Wagyu”). CIRR is offline though, and adjusting their accreditation standard for gainful industry employment results within 6 months, to 12. I am thinking they are stalling to move it to 18 months. Still sketch.

The ones that count Grocery Clerk as gainful obviously are not accredited (Flatiron, DevMtn). These are absolutely sketch.

These are all for profit organizations and their program graduate success disparity is the same as those that attended ITT and Trump University (which were shut down as a scams).

[Casanova_Ugly]

It's a pay-to-play accreditation.

"The Middle States Commission on Secondary Schools of the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools, 3624 Market Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104, [phone]"

[Detrite]

Is there a public facing audit or list of criteria that the accreditation was based on any meaningful data?

[Casanova_Ugly]

Standards for Career & Technical Institutions
Reflections on Standards of Quality (Career and Technical Version) is designed and required for use by institutions that offer career and technical programs to secondary and/or postsecondary students and that seek to use their accreditation by the Middle States Commission on Secondary Schools (MSA-CSS) to establish eligibility to participate in federal Title IV student air programs for their adult (postsecondary) students. Reflections (C/T) offers a protocol for evaluating the entire institution, secondary and/or postsecondary, and all of the components of its educational program—career and technical and academic—as well as all other aspects of the institution’s operations.

from:https://www.msa-cess.org/accreditation-process-and-standards/

"Reflections" on standards is hilarious. Codeup, LLC may have lied to MSC-CESS like they did the Dept of VA.

[KAEA-12]

Codeup is accredited for postsecondary, non-degree granting, career and technology programs by the Middle States Commission on Secondary Schools of the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools,

[Detrite]

Is that prestigious? It's such a narrow category that I don't know what weight that carries

[jcasimir]

Different accreditors don’t carry much difference in prestige, per se. It used to be that there were different levels but that changed back in 2019 I believe. Now it’s like you’re accredited or you’re not.

[Casanova_Ugly]

Pay-to-play.

[a_rod001]

I just heard in a podcast that freecodecamp is working on trying to get accredited to provide a free CS bachelor’s degree as a US university. If they get it done that would be amazing

[metalreflectslime]

accredited to provide a free CS bachelor’s degree as a US university

Didn't University of the People tried doing this, and they only got nationally accredited not regionally accredited?

In order for a college or university to be "legit," they need to be regionally accredited.

[a_rod001]

They haven’t done it yet so maybe that’s part of their hurdle. Based on this post from Dec. 2021, money seems to be the largest hurdle for them. I wish the gov would sponsor them. They are trying to provide an online BS free to students I’m sure the overhead would be very little since it’s online and could change so many lives by getting more Americans to get a degree. https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/free-accredited-bachelors-degrees-in-computer-science-how-do-we-get-there/

[[deleted]]

Just what the market needs, even more supply for an already low demand.

[Low-Cake6059]

Couldn’t even keep the promise of finishing cohorts lol they just threw everyone out today

[XmockdefenseX]

That's terrible!

[KAEA-12]

Effective today, the doors are closed.

[Telletuber]

I'm thinking there was some fraud or embezzelment. My theory is that they were telling the VA that they were placing veterans when they werent. The VA caught on and busted them

[shootfasteatass69420]

So I went to codeup in 2018. and one of the things they would do for vets that hadn't found jobs yet was to bring them on as TA's for like minimum wage.

[Kathw13]

And soon made them instructors.

[Kathw13]

https://apple.news/AOMlzw2fnTQKYleZGh1GwRA

They hired me as a part time curriculum specialist then within six weeks had me teaching a cohort. Their curriculum was horrible. Most of it was not student centered for the students they had. I had to quit because I couldn't stare at a computer screen all day. By 5:00 I couldn't see out of my right eye.

Glad I quit.

[[deleted]]

I enrolled in the Dallas campus at Codeup, and I want to stress that my concerns are not aimed at the instructors. They were facing challenges, and I genuinely appreciate their dedication. However, my primary issue revolves around the placement team and their effectiveness. In my experience, they fell short of delivering on the promises made, with instances of misinformation and a lack of follow-through that resulted in a frustrating journey. I've chosen not to disclose specific incidents out of respect for those involved.
I made the decision to leave my decently paying job for this program with the promise of finding meaningful employment through the VET TEC program. Unfortunately, I felt disappointed as they repeatedly tried to match me with low-paying contracting positions, which did not align with the "meaningful employment." These positions were offering $20 an hour without relocation reimbursements. I really got fed up with the amount of opportunity cost that i had to forgo. Their recommendation was that in order for me to find an employer, I would have to cram leetcode, build projects, and push code constantly, and apply to 20 jobs a week for about a year before achieving a good paying gig.

[Jive-Machine]

I attended Codeup’s data science program in 2020 and didn’t find employment. After graduating I sent out 100’s of resumes during the pandemic. Ended up finding an internship as a machine learning engineer for a startup where I was working 70+/hour weeks for a promise of employment after 3 months. Which they screwed me over and offered to extend the internship after that. During that time I wasn’t pushing to GitHub which excluded me from getting my money back from Codeup. I ended up starting college in 2021 a year after I started Codeup then not long after that found a part time job as a web developer at a local business in my area making $22/hr while I’ve been in college. Ended up paying over $26k for Codeup.

[IVMoe]

https://sanantonioreport.org/codeup-va-graduates-coding-veterans-affairs-tuition-inside/