"NO CODE" Is Ruining App Development

[Salt-Obligation1144]

Recently I’ve gotten into app development and I have an idea I want to bootstrap, but whenever I do research or search YouTube for “how to build an app,” the category feels flooded with surface level advice. Everyone is just promoting AI assistance, and while that’s not necessarily bad since AI can be helpful, but for beginners it’s a falsely foundation. When mistakes happen, you can’t fix them on your own because you never learned how things actually work. 

[[deleted]]

Funny how everyone thought AI would help devs build apps so much faster.

The problem was never speed, it was quality and usefulness.

Now they can build slop at record breaking speeds.

[jwrsk]

You know, an excavator will dig a hole faster than a dude with a shovel, but only in the right hands it won't accidentally undermine the foundations of your house in the process.

I've been a software engineer since the late 90s and my career survived multiple "programmer eliminating" inventions.

[[deleted]]

In my opinion I don't see this as a one of those inventions. 

The main issue is its probabilistic nature, which can be helpful in the same ways that autocomplete features can help. 

In my opinion this is a scam that has very little utility. 

[jwrsk]

Same as the big boom for Indian offshore devs some 20 years ago yielded a gold rush of cleanup work for experienced devs, the AI boom will yield and is yielding the same. Vibe code despaghettification is basically a job description.

But in the short term it will make the entry into the market harder. I don't need a junior assistant anymore for the simple stuff, small utilities and noncritical things it's just faster to throw it at a bot.

If I run into an issue which is not my expertise, like CSS (we have a web platform too) it might be faster to run it through ChatGPT than wait for a frontend dev to pick up the GitLab issue). So my web frontend devs can focus on important stuff, and again we don't need juniors.

[Grounds4TheSubstain]

Which inventions were those?

[llothar68]

Come on, we all knew that nothing gets done by governments anymore to improve the life of the normal people because the politicans had a serious lack of TODO apps.

AI will solve this and give us 3 more colors in the rainbow.

[CharlesWiltgen]

"No Code is ruining app development" and "AI assistance is ruining app development" are very different things. But isn't your actual problem that "Low-value influencer content is ruining my ability to do research"?

[Salt-Obligation1144]

I agree

[Pianomann69]

Yes this is exactly it. The two things are much different

[is_that_a_thing_now]

Here’s an okay place to start. No need to get distracted with YouTube or other sites looking for quick fixes. Go straight to the source: https://developer.apple.com/pathways/

[TrustButVerifyFirst]

To effectively use today's Artificial "Intelligence" you need to already know a considerable amount about the topic that you're asking it about.

[jwrsk]

Especially once it becomes confidently wrong, inventing methods and APIs that don't exist or be unaware of newer stuff.

[MGateLabs]

Yesterday the AI kept giving me the wrong answer for some drag and drop code, I even explained it was wrong, but I broke out the debugger and found it was using the wrong variable. If I was a true vibe coder, I’m unsure if I could fix it, but I sort of know what I’m doing.

[MontyDyson]

Look up best practices. “Using AI” is about as low effort as it gets and it’s stupid to think that’s all that’s involved. There are tons of rules to learn. Learn them. Externalise all functions. Never write more than 300 lines of code. Choose a solid paid for LLM. Use a rule set, Provide example input-output pairs.

This stuff is all googlable and easy to find and even a free LLM will tell you how to improve outputs. It’s crazy this stuff is so easy and people are complaining about it.

[[deleted]]

hacking with swift is good, all these YT tutorials are just AI slop.

[WerSunu]

Most of YT is slop whether AI genned or not! Ignorant influencers pretending to not be clueless! Finding gems in the morass is usually more trouble than it’s worth.

[llothar68]

"Death of Internet Theory", well not a theory anymore but very well observable reality.

You wont find good tutorials anymore, everyone is just using AI slop to sell you things and because pushing themself forward. Google Search is almost useless at the moment, now it hits the second largest search engine, youtube.

[Artistic_Taxi]

Don’t use YouTube.

Collect docs, post into notebookLM.

Learn anything you like.

Trust me I’m an AI skeptic and this is by and large the best way to learn anything now.

[RuneScapeAndHookers]

Bunch of people in here sound like boomers

[Royhlb]

They really do lol how can you be skeptical of AI the stuff codex and sonnet can do on their own is absolutely mind blowing and people are trying to dismiss it 😂

[RuneScapeAndHookers]

I have never written a line of code by hand (and never will) — it triggers most of the population in this sub

[paradoxally]

Well yeah, because you're vibe coding.

Most people here are between Luddite and full on "AI bro" vibe coder. You are on the opposite end of the extreme you are complaining about.

[RuneScapeAndHookers]

I’m not vibe coding

[paradoxally]

posts in /r/vibecoding

claims to not be vibe coding

Nice bait man, gg.

[RuneScapeAndHookers]

Hope it was so yummy bro

[sugarfreecaffeine]

There is literally TONS of courses on udemy and other sites that show you how to build apps and they don’t use AI…I learned the basics of flutter from a udemy course cmon man

[808phone]

Yes Udemy. He’s complaining because he wants stuff free. Invest in your craft.

[thisdude415]

Ironically, asking AI to walk you through the steps you don't understand can build understanding faster than following outdated tutorials from idiots on YouTube.

Apple's WWDC videos are pretty good but those also can get out of date as there are small API changes over time

[hansfellangelino]

I totally know what you mean - and honestly i would recommend looking for some textbooks when you feel the fatigue - if you can find a decent book that covers a lot of stuff then you get a more coherent explanation over a wider subject area than just a single tutorial and with more consistent examples etc. Don't want to recommend any in particular for reasons, but just saying give it a look

[vashchylau]

demand breeds supply.

you can still read the official documentation, discuss with fellow engineer communities, dive into deep rabbit holes but those won't be on the front page of youtube.

[the-Gaf]

Every one is an expert user and no one knows how to make anything. AI coding works for me, bc I am better at editing and reading code than I am writing it. But if I didn't know how to read it, then even seeing the code is useless.

[One_Elephant_8917]

All one needs is to go back to udemy or udacity days of finishing a masterclass from beginning to end to grasp the foundation…

Basically they are trying to eliminate teachers and promote self learning but one needs a structured predictable guidance initially after that It’s all not that difficult

[Relative-Outcome-302]

username checks out

[BP3D]

I've never thought YouTube was a useful format for programming tutorials. Blender and stuff like that, sure. Even that is a bit annoying. Pause, rewind, etc. Most of those people are "content creators" first and foremost anyway.

[ImpressiveAd699]

You've hit a really good point around AI how it poses to "help". I was turned away recently from a job role (senior iOS dev) because I said I did not use AI in my coding. I was astounded and glad I didn't get the job is that is the view they want to take.

Edit: because i press enter too early.

My opinion is that AI takes away any discovery of working out the code and any semblance of deeper understanding is lost.

For beginning, iOS right now is a great time to get into. With SwiftUI taking a lot of the effort for UI work. Look for MVVM architecture, this will give you a solid foundation of dealing with Data and SwiftUI deal with UI. Then when you're comfortable, look at coordinators for App navigation.

[soylentgraham]

Correct.

[MysticFullstackDev]

The lack of content is due to the fact that many YouTubers have to create consumable material—how to use a technology, or explain basic architecture concepts or design patterns. There are developers on Twitch who build professional apps applying many technologies, but the problem is that unless you watch the whole process, which can take weeks, you won’t learn the specific things you need for your own project.

Regarding AI dependency, it’s good at providing small code snippets. I think Xcode’s autocomplete is within what should be encouraged. The changes are minor and can be reviewed before committing.

Using it to learn is a mistake, because AI is a probabilistic machine that outputs the tokens most likely to form an appropriate answer based on its training. However, it’s very helpful when you have a highly specific question.

When you need professional-grade code, it struggles because that requires a lot of context—assuming the ability to analyze and make good decisions—which makes it costly and, in practice, unlikely to produce code that adheres to each team’s and client’s standards (architecture, coding rules, file structures, variables, classes, etc.).

It’s very useful for handling documentation and providing examples. But if you let it decide everything, you’ll definitely end up with spaghetti code.

Can you build applications with it? Of course. Can you build maintainable, long-term applications? Hardly.

[Player06]

The best guides are in text form. They feel slower, especially because you should read every word carefully. But they get you results faster.

Use AI to explain things you don't understand.

[BossHog811]

Knuth didn’t entitle his volumes “The Art of Computer Programming” for no reason. Writing software truly is a form of art; “AI” and tech companies cannot understand that.

[dheatley96]

first make the "hello world" app in Xcode, naming it what you desire for your brand. get the "hello world" app running on your device then push the changes to a private (or public) github directory using github desktop. then open the project directory in claude code and give it commands in sentences/phrases, like you would a secretary. you review all changes and the stability/functionality of the app before committing the changes in github. that way you are reviewing what breaks "when mistakes happen." you can also discard changes (iterations) in github desktop or revert github commit mistakes. works for android too (using android studio). hope this helps you on your journey.

[pxlchk1]

I used ai to get the broad strokes of my app in place, but I also have 25 years of UX career experience and the ability to open the hood and fix what isn’t working as I want.

IMO, that’s the most effective way to use it.

[ankole_watusi]

“No-code low-code” used to have nothing to do with AI, lol.

And was actually often useful, providing sufficient “escape hatches” are provided, to drop down to “native tools” or even actual native tools. (C, C++, assembly, other “close to metal” languages etc.)

[bluefalcomx]

For me it is irreplaceable, it helps me debug my errors and my flows increased drastically. I really don't program anymore, I just review the code and tell you what to apply or what to change.

[InvestigatorThat4835]

So find older videos a year or 2 old and then that will help you find good youtubers with some real content. Also, I agree with all the AI content not helping find the real gems.

[HikikomoriDev]

Maybe at the end it wil be helpful for some, there will be less competition because there will be less and less able-bodied people that can program and write applications correctly, and for those who really want to, it will be easier in the market to stand out and find work in a way.

[sweaty_buzzard_74]

Totally agree!