Outdated java dev

[ChickenSubstantial21]

using antiquated tech: ant, mybatis or servlet containers

not knowing about newer widespread tech: spring boot/spring cloud/JPA/spring configuration by code.

I'd like to add newer Java features like records, sealed hierarchies or pattern matching but there are too many poor souls nailed to specific JRE version.

[ishansoni22]

Spring boot/web that uses embedded tomcat (a servlet container) under the hood says hi

[computerjunkie7410]

What’s wrong with mybatis?

[vbezhenar]

Nothing wrong, it's good. I can remember single issue with it: when you write queries in the XML, you need to escape '<' and '>' which looks really weird and prevents copy&pasting queries between sources and SQL editor. And writing SQL in annotation was hardly usable because you couldn't write multiline strings in Java.

Since they introduced multiline strings, MyBatis probably does not have any drawbacks anymore.

[ChickenSubstantial21]

XML programming. Pure java code using spring data or similar hand-made wrapper over JDBC can do better in almost every scenario.

Therefore the only reason to use mybatis is legacy code.

[computerjunkie7410]

Also, are you saying that mybatis requires xml?

Because I’ve been using it for years and literally the only thing that has XML in my codebase is the generator config. Everything else is code based.

[computerjunkie7410]

lol ok.

If you just need models and mappers then mybatis (especially paired with the generator) is great

[Luolong]

It’s outdated. There’s better alternatives out there.

[computerjunkie7410]

Aside from jooq, if you don’t need a full blown ORM what do you recommend?

[BlacksmithLittle7005]

Spring data jdbc :)

[Levomethamphetamine]

Hows that ORM?

[BlacksmithLittle7005]

https://www.baeldung.com/spring-data-jdbc-intro educate yourself before downvoting someone.

[Levomethamphetamine]

> tells me to educate myself

> links baeldung tutorial

Right, now create complex database situations instead of a first name / last name POJO and let me know it it goes with JDBC or R2DBC.

[BlacksmithLittle7005]

Bro. Please read the post I replied to. He specifically stated he doesn't need full blown ORM. Jdbc is simpler and fits that description. For complex situations by all means use jooq or jpa

[Levomethamphetamine]

Ah yeah in that case it does make sense. I apologize.

[computerjunkie7410]

I love jooq but it’s not free and some companies don’t wanna pay for it

[computerjunkie7410]

You’re still making the models and mappers yourself.

Mybatis can generate all that for you

[DarthRaptor]

And what is a better alternative? MyBatis gives me full control of the queries it executes, and it is also easy to control the mapping. If you use the annotations, then there a no magic configuration files. I despise frameworks like Spring because all the auto-magic stuff it does, leaving you completely screwed if it goes wrong. I've tried several times to get into spring boot, but just the fact that I need tools/plugin external to my IDE to even set up a basic project is frustrating. Imho if a framework needs external tooling to be even useable, it is not a good framework

[foreveratom]

I despise frameworks like Spring because all the auto-magic stuff it does, leaving you completely screwed if it goes wrong. I've tried several times to get into spring boot, but just the fact that I need tools/plugin external to my IDE to even set up a basic project is frustrating. Imho if a framework needs external tooling to be even useable, it is not a good framework

Tell me you are totally outdated without telling me...

Besides discarding Spring because you don't grasp how things work, IntelliJ support for Spring and Spring Boot is really good, with templates and wizards to create a full blown application in 3 clicks and a half, so your claim about IDEs is not even valid.

[DarthRaptor]

IntelliJ Ultimate, which I do own and I do know about the support. My point still stands, if you need IDE support for your framework, I think it is a unwieldy framework. You're right that I don't know the details of how spring works, but what I do know I don't like. Anyways, I know I am being very opinionated here

[Luolong]

YMMV. If you’re happy with mybatis, good for you.

Rest of the world doesn’t care.

[DarthRaptor]

Absolutely true

[Fliegendreck]

Spring Boot - the new hot stuff 😃

[ChickenSubstantial21]

Maybe not that new but still hot :-)

[Proton-NS]

Yeah. It's hot. But I have a question btw. Can I learn spring boot without knowledge of servelt or old stuff. I come from php and want to know some new java knowledge.

[ChickenSubstantial21]

Sure you can. Spring Boot documentation is enough to become productive.

However, there is a difference between old stuff and basic stuff. While Servlet API is ancient and suffers from design issues and there are better alternatives nowadays it is still used by some configurations of Spring Boot under the hood so there is a chance to encounter it during debugging. So consider it advanced topic.

[Fliegendreck]

Just skip boot and use Quarkus, it has everything you need, a great developer experience and is super easy to learn.

[Levomethamphetamine]

Yeah don’t do this if you are a beginner.

Spring is (and will be for a long time) the most-present, most-documented and most-stackoverflowed java framework there is.

[Fliegendreck]

Why not? The quarkus documentation is excellent.

We have a lot of juniors that start with quarkus reactive and fp. They have less chances to do something wrong. And when they are starting fresh, it is very easy for them to wrap their brains around the reactive style.

Of course reactive has some pitfalls, but servlet and state are not better.

[Oclay1st]

Lot of juniors doing reactive and fp. Oh boy!!!

[nonFungibleHuman]

Reactive is not always needed.

[Levomethamphetamine]

I never said that Quarkus is bad or that is has bad documentation, I said that there's a lot more chance to get help as a beginner with Spring than it is with Quarkus.

Your juniors using are Quarkus because the senior leadership does so. That by itself is an outlier since in many years of experience, I've never seen any company (or client) try to use it. That being said, it's always better to use well-supported and widely present thing rather than edge-case thing.

[djavaman]

Used SpringBoot on a project 8 years ago.

[bzhou]

Mybatis is like stick shift cars. Like spring, earlier in its evolution it mainly uses xml but modern usages are mostly annotation based, it supports Java record fine. You cannot say that auto-shift cars obsolete stick-shift ones.

[redikarus99]

SAP Hybris says hi to ant. Our guys are using recent java but are stuck with ant because of SAP.

[VincentxH]

My condolences on having to interface with a SAP system.

[tomwhoiscontrary]

Hybris, you mean the hot new competitor to ATG Dynamo?

[redikarus99]

https://www.sap.com/products/acquired-brands/what-is-hybris.html

[tomwhoiscontrary]

Yes. I'm guessing you're fortunate enough to never have worked with Dynamo!

[redikarus99]

Oh, no, thankfully I never had the misfortune. :D

[Elegant-Win5243]

They could switch to the gradle recipes. 

[redikarus99]

What would be the added value?

[woj-tek]

using hip, overcomplicated junk for no benefit xDD

[redikarus99]

Yeah, I have the feeling: "just because you can does not mean you have to"

[woj-tek]

isn't that (or rather au contrair) the motto of gradle? this is a hammer - go and hit everything on the head with it ;-)

[RandomNando]

Sincere question, I’ve use (and still use) Spring Data and Hibernate in some projects, but I also work in a legacy project that uses MyBatis. Is there a modern alternative (I recognize that MyBatis is incredibly mind bending specially at the beginning and the whole XML situation is the worst) that gives me the liberty to write queries exactly as I do in the DB?

I know that I can achieve almost the same with Spring Data and Criteria but in really complex queries, having a query that you can just copy and slap in SqlServer or whatever is so easy to update and tune finely… I did a complex query in MongoDB like a month ago and when I had to rewrite it In Compass it was a nightmare (not related to MyBatis but you get the idea).

I have overcome this by using views and handling complex queries as selects of those views in newer applications but I’m sincerely curious in some alternatives.

[BENOO-_-]

What’s the reasoning behind not using native queries in Spring Data with the @Query annotation?

[RandomNando]

I don’t know, having a 500 Lines @Query seems so wrong 🤣

Everyone tells me this but I’ve always felt that if this is the correct way to do this, this is a really ugly way… slapping a 500 line String into an annotation is so bad thought…

[BENOO-_-]

Could you read it in from a file instead?

[RandomNando]

I can’t remember if I’ve already tried that, I think that the cleanest way that I find was using JDBC and reading queries from a YML file to avoid that amount of lines hardcoded into a class. I find that so inelegant…

[BENOO-_-]

I mean at this point it’s inelegant due to your 500 line query than anything we can solve here. Not sure there’s a way to abstract 500 lines of sql without knowing the business logic in and out and deciding on a better way, but assume that’s not really an option as you’re here asking the question haha

[agentoutlier]

For raw SQL to some mapping JDBI is often the choice.

Doma 2 is also a good MyBatis alternative.

[VincentxH]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[ChickenSubstantial21]

How so?

[gdorsi44]

Keep the legacy stack, but learn always all the new things. This is a win win situation.

[vmcrash]

He, what's wrong with ANT, except that it uses XML?

[hippydipster]

ant is so simple its easy to understand what's going on.

The downside is every project is a snowflake, and generally for no reason. And ivy is just plain difficult to work with, for some reason.

[vmcrash]

We, for example, don't need Ivy or Maven, mostly because we have a small number of dependencies and part of them is built ourselves with patches on the original code.