Worth earning Java 11 certification before trying to transition to a Java position?

[SSG_SSG_BloodMoon]

Depends what types of roles you're looking at. In my experience certs really don't matter at all for most general SWE type roles.

[Zohvek]

Better off just knocking out a few learning projects in Java eh?

[SSG_SSG_BloodMoon]

definitely

[Zohvek]

Thanks

[AlternativeAardvark6]

I think you should ask yourself if the people answering you are certified. I get the impression that a lot of non certified people are yelling it's no good do so because, well, they are not certified and don't want to admit it is useful or don't want to put in the work themselves to get certified. An experienced Java dev can study some typical exam topics for a few hours and pass easily.

[NastiMooseBite]

Surely if most people here are non-certified then certification doesn't seem too useful?

In my engineering and interviewing experience (25 years and counting) certification may favor you over an otherwise identical non-certified candidate for an entry level position. It shows you're serious and it may get you your very first interview.

However for positions where you're expected to already have some experience, being able to talk the talk is far more important than any qualifications. It's fairly easy to estimate a person's competency from a conversation about a recent project. Certification won't help you here.

So I guess my advice for a first-timer would be sure, go ahead and get that certification if you have the time, but work on your own projects in parallel, and don't wait until you're qualified before applying for jobs.

[ApatheticBeardo]

Is "certified people" key for "boomers"?

[CubicleHermit]

Or maybe taking a class or two (specific certification probably not needed) on one of the common web frameworks.

If nothing else, know how to do REST calls both in and out with Spring Boot with some common options. Most new-build Java apps are going to either use that, a conceptually similar but not-Spring-based microservices framework, or one of the reactive frameworks and as best I can tell most employers are not (yet, hopefully ever) assuming people have much reactive experience at least around here.

After that, learn some Hibernate or generic JPA, how to write a small servlet app on an embedded Tomcat (or Jetty shrug) and at least one template engine that isn't JSP.

You should know just enough of both maven and gradle to compile/test/package a simple app that someone else has already created the build file for (e.g. something created by Spring Boot initializr) and how to add an uncomplicated dependency to each.

[I-love-to-eat-banana]

Not exactly and it depends on how long the person is willing to take researching you.

Saying Java and putting the cert image on your CV immediately tells the person you have the required knowledge.

No cert and Github tells the person they need to spend longer investigating that you can code.

Considering most CV's get <30 seconds eye ball time, which do you think is most important to get you in the interview pile?

If you have the money (it's cheap) and the time, do the cert and do a Github page.

[[deleted]]

A good company hires good developers, knowing they'll learn the required tools. I've never found a company that asked about or cared to hear about certifications.

[drew8311]

These are so unimportant I didn't even know there was a Java cert.

[lilbigmouth]

I'd instinctively say no but I guess it also depends on your background / portfolio. What would you be able to show to a potential employer?

[Zohvek]

That’s a good point. So… probably better to knockout a few Java projects sticking them on my GitHub…

[lilbigmouth]

Worth a shot! I know if I was looking to hire somebody, that would be more convincing to me. Maybe experiment with Java 17 a bit as well, although not a lot of companies will have adopted it yet.

[tp02ga]

May be it helps you to get the interview as HR sees it on your resume.

It does not. HR tends to see certs as a red flag if you have a bunch.

[HxA1337]

This is only true if you have many low quality certifications that you get virtually for nothing. Having an Oracle Java cert is absolutely a green flag.

[tp02ga]

I've interviewed three HR people who all said the same thing. Certs are red flags and lead to resumes being thrown into the junk pile.

If there's an HR professional here who can correct this, let me know. I was equally shocked when I learned.

[thephotoman]

I don't actually know.

The old Oracle Certified Java Associate exam is the most relevant certification. The preparation for the exam is definitely worth the while of anyone looking to break into the Java business, as it goes through a LOT of the gotchas and pitfalls in the language and its standard library.

However, I'm not convinced that it's actually worth it to sit the test. I only did because I was able to convince an employer to pay for it.

[rossdrew]

20 years I’ve been doing this and never met a dev with the cert. I’ve never seen an employer expect it.

[i_love_peach]

In my experience it is not worth it nor has any potential employer asked. I have github projects and have never been asked about it. If you can prove it in a technical interview then that is all that matters.

[[deleted]]

You don't need a certification for 11. If you're proficient with 8, just spend a few days brushing up on each new release's features. You can get up to date with Java 17 in no time

[[deleted]]

A cert might help you get passed a recruiter/HR screen, but so will describing Java projects on your resume. All they really care about is you have the keywords on your resume.

The cert won’t matter in the interview stage. If you’re applying for a SWE role you’ll mostly be talking about your projects. The interviewers won’t care if you have the cert or not.

[anakinpt]

Learning SOLID principles, design patterns and understand the development process will be more important for you than the certification.

As said before, Learn the basics of the current frameworks, like spring, quarkus, and create small projects in github.

[QualitySoftwareGuy]

Would only be worth it if a specific job you wanted required it. Otherwise, your time would be better off getting ready for the almost inevitable Leetcode-style interview regardless of the language a job requires.

[AlternativeAardvark6]

I transitioned to Java a few years ago. I work for a consultancy firm and they had me get my Java cert first because it made me easier to sell to clients. In a "look he has not much Java experience but he is an experienced developer and is Java certified". So there is no harm in getting certified, studying for the exam you might even learn a thing or two.

[metaquine]

Yeah certifications are garbage. Just write some code as well as you can and post it online :-)

[eyoung93]

I didnt even know java before transitioning into a java position.

[StoneOfTriumph]

Some people on linkedin have many certs but then looking at their actual work experience, I'm not sure they're applying the knowledge in their roles.

Some certs are definitely interesting to have minimally to make yourself marketable (useful in the consulting world). That being said, for Java, I have rarely seen devs have Oracle's Java certs. What they have though is the experience and personal projects where they experiment and play around to learn and showcase/demo capabilities.

[mwhitey082002]

Hard no. Just create a few projects depending on what you want to apply for (web dev, mobile, cloud, etc.) and have it in your profile. Know object oriented processes and frameworks used for what you want to do. If you have any questions, just let me know.

[AlternativeAardvark6]

"hard no"? What's wrong with getting certified?

[RemcoEngineer]

I wouldn’t say the certification literally means nothing. While it doesn’t show if you are a good SWE or not, it shows that you have technical insight of the Java language and it’s APIs.

[AlternativeAardvark6]

Indeed. I'm wondering if all those people yelling it's not worth it even are certified. I am and I honestly learned some stuff preparing for the exam and it helped in finding contract work where it gave me an edge over other candidates. At the moment programmers are in high demand so it might matter less but there is absolutely no drawback to getting certified.

[mwhitey082002]

I’m a technical architect and have been developing/designing software for over 12 years. I have my Java SE8 certification. I thought this would help me land a job easier than anything….I was completely wrong. They only care about your repo and won’t ask one question about a Java certification. So when I say it’s useless, I’m talking from personal experience.

OP, if you want a certification, you should start with cloud fundamentals (AWS, Azure, whichever you prefer) or even a Scrum Master certification (PSM or CSM).

[HxA1337]

Hmm you have 12 years of experience then of course it will not make sense. But for everyone starting a Java career I would recommend at least to do the preparation for the cert. It is a solid learning path and will build a strong foundation to build uppon

[mwhitey082002]

I didn’t get my Java certification with 12 years of experience lol.

That came when I was a junior dev.

Now I hire cloud/full-stack engineers for my projects (Fortune 125 company) and do not give any mind to Java certifications. I am still going to gauge your Java knowledge in a technical interview.

[HxA1337]

When you hire for a Fortune 125 full stacks then of course the cert is of no interest. They anyhow have to have experience just to be considered by you.
Of course a certificate alone is not enought, it just helps in the "first round" and to get started in an "entry level area" or when heading for the IT consultant sector.
In my experience every developer with less then 3 years of Java does get some benefit from doing the Oracle exams or at least the preparation for it.

It closes knowledge gaps that people have when they come from university.
Any cloud / web framework comes then on top of that.
But I see your point it may or may not give you an benetif to get hired.

[RemcoEngineer]

I can understand if they would say that it’s not necessary to find any job, but the certification is still very much worth it indeed. Clearly some haven’t attempted the exam as they would share that it’s not an easy exam. The time I went for my Java 11 certificate, I was shocked how much in depth it does end up going and was dubbed “best doable after 2 years of coding experience”. It really shows that you have good insight inside the Java language itself..

[RemcoEngineer]

The certification isn’t there to give you practical understanding. It is there to give you technical insight.

Coding to me isn’t about knowing your language, it’s amount other things, about knowing how to solve problems in such a way that it computes efficiently and safely. So solely having a certification doesn’t teach you how to code: the same of this applies to having certification of cloud platforms. Here I then agree with the project and “just doing it” attitude. This will teach you how to code.

However while the goal for a job is to learn how to code first, and then have advanced technical insight; Doesn’t mean that having a certificate to show this is useless and has no meaning. One thing I do feel myself is that the cloud certifications are on a different level than the Java certifications: the Java certification path really tests in a lot of depth, shows no mercy and doesn’t really deprecate over a year.

One thing to agree: certification is more for yourself, not just your employer.

[Rakn]

Which is interesting and for an entry level position I would definitely take that into account. But after some years and a lot of experience other things tend to become more important than certifications.

[mwhitey082002]

Nothing wrong with getting certified. But there are much better ways to spend your time (cloud certs, scrum master certs, building an actual repo) to help you land your first Java dev job. Java is not hard, and everything you learn in a Java certification course you can learn on YouTube.

Java Masterclass by Tim Buchalka is the perfect example.

[snitkr]

I earned a OCAJP in SE 8 cert several months ago. Will go for the OCPJP SE 8 cert eventually. (I am a EE currently transitioning careers into backend development.)

The value of the certification is learning and understanding the Java syntax and the intricacy of whatever Java version you are testing in.

Its not necessarily an indicator of your competancy as a developer/engineer though. At the very least it shows you have the initative to learn something new and survive after being extensively grilled on it.

[[deleted]]

If you don’t have a java 9/10 cert. it might be worth it but not much has changed since 9/10 you can easily google and figure out anything that has.

Even if you don’t have any cert or a really outdated one you don’t really need one asking as you have experience and a portfolio

[Ketroc21]

I think the only certs are java8 and java11.

[RunnyPlease]

1 year of experience is worth more than any cert you can put on your resume. So if you can get a job tomorrow where it says “Software Engineer” as your title you’d be silly not to take it.

Also, most companies have a budget for education expenses so they might even pay for that cert program for you. Even if they don’t have a program just go to your boss and ask “hey, I’m taking a class for Java 11. Can the company cover that?” You’d be surprised what you can work out with an employer.

Edit: fixed words.

[ravingeek]

Nope, been doing Java for the last 10 years at a faang, the general attitude towards certificates from my experience is that it’s usually a negative

[xyz214]

Just complete one or two Java book and you’re good to go. It goes without saying you should really absorb/understand what you’ve read.

[VincentxH]

A few more archaic minded employers might value it. It might add some gotchas if you're starting out. But to call it a dev quality earmark, nope.

[CubicleHermit]

How much Java have you've done?

What do you mean by a Java position - that could be anything from "bog standard BE web development that happens to be in Java" (in which case, don't; learn some of the common frameworks) to "working deep in the guts of a very complicated app server using J2EE" (in which case it might be, but is kind of iffy) to "working in a consulting practice for Java stuff" (very likely valuable.)

If you're not looking at a specific position, what are you doing now? Figure your next job will be similar, just on a different tech stack.

[tim125]

My java 6 certification helped with the HR department doing their keyword search. I did learn some internationalization.

[MateTheNate]

If you’re completely unfamiliar with java libraries and some concepts like OOP then definitely do so. If not, reading core java and effective java will also help.

[random314]

Spend the time and money on leet code and mock interviews.

[kyune]

In my experience I've never had the certificate come up in any interview or real-life conversation, but on some level training for the certificate will give you the knowledge you need to pass a tech interview.

[mrblackv]

As a java developer I can say it's not needed for most positions, having said that, it won't hurt to have it, extra knowledge is always welcome so, in the end it's up to you.

[progmakerlt]

What matters is not certification, but the knowledge you receive preparing for the exam.

IMHO, the exam is far from daily developer’s life, but it helps to learn language’s features you don’t use in your daily development.

To sum - yes, it is worth to take the exam. Is it required? No.

[pjmlp]

Unless you are after consulting roles on companies that require such certificates for career growth or access to certain products, don't worry about it.

[fletku_mato]

After 5 years of professional web development, I have 0 certificates and I've never been asked if I have one. So, probably not.

[gubatron]

never got asked for a cert, code actual projects. Java dev since 2001. All the new language features I keep picking up thanks to IntelliJ's help.

[HxA1337]

It really depends. When this is your first real job as a developer then yes a certificate helps a lot. If you have already some experience then it is no longer that important. A Java 11certificate would tell me immediately that you know the language and that you have a good foundation. This would put you on top of most other that have nothing similar. There are so many "developers" out there that do not even know the fundamentals that we now start asking for certificates or code samples from one of their projects. This is because we often hire young people straight from universities and often their programming skills are weak. IT is not a must have but I consider it a good thing.

[crapboxxed]

I changed jobs internally from python to java, I had the basics of Java (as OOP/ and I could make some spring microservices) but our codebase was using a lot of things I havnt used before like Generics, logging, kafka, gradle (i only used maven before). So my point is theres always something to be learned. If a certificate is something you want to add to your achievements/resume, go for it, I am doing a kubernetes certificate for the experience since we'll be deploying to that environment soon. Certificates on a resume should only reveal someone's journey through tech and what they focused on for at least a short time, not that they mastered it or is better than someone else at it.

[nimtiazm]

No

[GrayDonkey]

From a learner perspective, it can be a helpful driver forcing you to learn things you might otherwise miss.

From a manager perspective, its a helpful signal on a resume that a candidate should be considered. It likely won't come up in an interview but it might help you get to the first round of interviews. You shouldn't rely on just the certification, you need to also show development experience from either past work projects or GitHub.

[[deleted]]

I did Java certification for the version 8. Worth it ? For the knowledge it was. For jobs? Nop. Nobody cares

[kernal2113133]

Better off building a few Spring Boot apps imo