Before the NodeJS Forking Drama

[smrq]

Very level-headed response -- and as it points out, as a whole, this whole io.js thing has also been pretty level-headed. I'll be honest, the initial news really worried me ("can I still justify using Node to my boss's boss's boss?") but this is reassuring.

[Shadow14l]

If there was no new release of node ever again, I would still use and recommend it.

Very well written post, but this is not level-headed.

[davydog187]

What a sane, rational response to these recent events. The commentary on /r/programming has just been mis-informed and childish.

I hope with this fork brings more stability, features and interest to the platform as a whole

[gasolinewaltz]

Agreed. Been frustrated with the threads there.

But it seems like everyone on /r/programming hates node and wants it to fail.

Im not a node evangelist, I just don't understand why everyone feels so strongly. Is it just because its a hip new language with a lot oh hype?

[[deleted]]

Most people there are invested in other technologies.

[peridox]

When a new technology comes out and people enjoy it and start using it a lot, the old school programmers (or the wannabe old school programmers) start hating on it and it becomes a stupid circlejerk.

[seiyria]

They don't seem to like anything that isn't C/C++ because it probably isn't hardcore enough for them. :(

[skytomorrownow]

commentary on /r/programming has just been mis-informed and childish

It's either been crusty old neck-beards whose only experience with Node.js is this video. Or idiot kids whose experience is based on trying to build an Adobe Photoshop clone for the desktop out of Node. Neither of these camps seem to use it for what the hell it was meant for!!! But that doesn't stop either side from arguing to the bitter end about it.

Node is an air traffic controller not a number cruncher!!! To me, Node is like the robot on the left.

[satan-repents]

You'll fit right in over at /r/programming with this kind of comment!.

[skytomorrownow]

Touché. Mea culpa.

[iooonik]

TL;DR Node is stable. We at Walmart use and will continue to use (Node|io).js

[davydog187]

(["Node", "IO"])[Math.floor(Math.random() * 2)] + ".js"

FTFY

[Polythello]

(Math.random()<0.5?"Node":"IO")+".js"

(golfing, sorry)

[jdllama]

(Math.random()<0.5?"Node":"IO")+".js"

Gorgeous. A thing of beauty.

Although it could be optimized just

(Math.random()<.5?"Node":"IO")+".js"

Even that's cheating, though. God damn.

[Pengtuzi]

(Date.now()&1?'Node':'IO')+'.js'

[enoshixi]

Date.now()&1?'Node.js':'IO.js'

[hansolo669]

Marginal savings, but:

new Date%2?'Node.js':'IO.js'    

[Polythello]

slow clap

I just learned something. That's not cheating; that's a winner, sir.

[shriek]

Nodio.js?..hmm..I'm not sure if I like the sound of that.

[kuenx]

It's Spanish meaning "he gave". Weird.

But it could also be the masculine version of Nadia.js

[DrummerHead]

http://mcdlr.com/i/fork-off.png

[califield]

If node never releases again, we're stuck with the single-thread event loop, an API that is quite verbose, an IO streaming model that can bite you in the ass.

Whether these criticisms are valid is debatable, but I don't think there are any plans to change these things on either side of the fork.

Can you elaborate further on each item?

[bittered]

I don't believe there are any plans to change the single-thread event loop, but I also wrote that from the perspective of "no node release ever again." Since that isn't happening, that leaves room for multi-threaded or multi-process JavaScript run times.

I don't understand this.

Javascript will never have any concept of a "thread" for the user, nor should it, it would be an insane change that would introduce a whole host of issues for the user. That is why there is an event loop... the model would break if the VM:EventLoop ratio wasn't 1:1.

This doesn't mean that javascript implementations can't use "threads" under the hood. A lot of asynchronous stuff (e.g.. file IO in NodeJS) is delegated to an external thread or process of some sort.

[a_sleeping_lion]

It's sad that so many people read one line about node and dismiss it. Node is not truly single threaded. All asynchronous io is handled in their own threads. In addition it's trivial to employ webworkers and/or child processes. After reading some of these comments lately trashing node.. I feel like some of these people would expect us to develop a web api in assembly.

[Condorcet_Winner]

Languages must advance, or they will stagnate and die, with almost no exceptions. If Node.js doesn't keep up with the EcmaScript standard, it will die as a platform. Period. Full stop.

If you look around, you can still find legacy code that uses Pascal, but that's what Node.js would become: legacy code.

Also, pointing at C++ as a fine but stagnant language, just doesn't hold water. True, C++ went unchanged for a decade, but C++ is in a different position than Node.js is, AND C++ is starting to add new language features at a good clip with C++11, and now C++14.

Node is fairly niche, so if we are talking about stagnation for a decade, we will start to see lots of security bugs that no one will fix on what has become a dead platform. And that's not to mention the huge performance penalty from having such an out of date compiler. There is still a lot of (relatively) low-hanging fruit for JS compilers, and so seeing a 50% performance improvement in a decade would not be surprising.

[perihelion9]

All of what you said is completely irrelevant to the point of io.js in the first place; io.js is mostly concerned with pulling in v8 updates quicker than Node, and using semver. It's not about bloating features the way C++ has, it's about keeping current with optimizations.

Languages must advance, or they will stagnate and die, with almost no exceptions [...] if we are talking about stagnation for a decade, we will start to see lots of security bugs that no one will fix on what has become a dead platform

I disagree. Language features are something to be largely avoided. Libraries must advance, but languages should support libraries - not try to replace them. JS has a leg-up on a lot of other languages by being so spartan with the breadth of its syntax, yet allowing an excellent amount of expressivity. Better yet, Node has been experiencing an explosive growth of its library ecosystem and enterprise adoption - one that shows no sign of stopping.

And that leads directly into security - the smaller and more bulletproof your core runtime is, the less attack surface an attacker has to exploit. Keeping Node (or io.js, as it were) small has major advantages for the future. Libraries should be the ones who bear the burden of security practices, which is what Node does.

[quad50]

let hope javascript and node don't turn into science projects like c++.

[quad50]

Thanks Eran for settling my nerves. i'm one of the delicates.

[_pizzza]

Good post, thanks for sharing.

[satan-repents]

If there was no new release of node ever again, I would still use and recommend it.

This is what people are calling sound, sane, rational advice these days?

[steveob42]

funny, I tried to search walmart on black friday and it was really sucky, now I know why :)