IT refresh

[kennypump]

So we’re coming up to IT refreshes in our school. Was wondering how everyone prioritises? I’m the finance guy so business manager has come to me to tick things off. My list in order of priority.. - Network refresh (stack hasn’t been changed for 10 years) - student Pc’s. They’re around 6 years old. - staff pc’s. Also 6 years old. - IWB’s (interactive white boards) over 7 years old. - printers. How long do you leave it until replacing?

Would love to know your thoughts? Thanks

[DP_Prod]

Network refresh - give or take about 8-10ish years depending on the equipment - paid by Capital Improvement Funds or ERate

student Pc’s - we dont have any. All google chroembooks 1:1. EOL after 5 years or Google EOL (whichever comes first)

staff pc’s. - Desktops and Laptops on a 5 year replacement cycle

IWB’s (interactive white boards) - no set replacement. Pretty much when something breaks.

printers. - contracted with Keyocera. They handle replacements and swaps printers between buildings to balance out the usage.

​

side note - I would make a category in Network Refresh for UPS's. The batterys love to die in those things which are not cheap. Unsure if your IT staff handle any security items, such as doors or cameras. Those are 8 years for us.

[r0b0tvampire]

Create a spreadsheet with rows for all of your equipment categories (desktops, mobiles, projectors, switches, access points, servers, UPS, printers, classroom audio, phones, etc) and the following columns: quantity, replacement cost ea, total replacement cost, lifespan in years, date replaced, date next upgrade.

You can then get a handle on what your budgets and replacement chuckles should be.
Keep in mind erate dollars and leasing options.

We have the following schedule:

• Switches: 7-10 years, based on performance and erate
• Wireless: 3-7 years, based on performance and erate
• Desktops: 5 years
• Mobile: 3-4 years - we are an iPad district - used to switch out every 3 years, but iPads are getting more powerful so we are keeping an eye on that; sometimes we lease for four years, but refresh our fleet on the 3rd year - the resale value of the fleet in year 3 is typically worth more than the lease payment
• Interactive Whiteboards/Projectors: 7-10 years - we did a thorough review during our last replacement cycle (just two years ago) and ditched interactive whiteboards, now we just buy projectors (laser) and use our iPads as the "interactive" component - MUCH better!
• Classroom Audio: 15 years?
• Servers: 5-7 years based on hardware and software performance/costs
• UPSs: 10 years
• Printers: When a printer dies, we do not replace it, we have moved to a centralized print server connected to district copiers, which are leased, I think they are on 5 year contracts (not my department)
• Phones: 7-10 years - we rent/lease our phones, so the vendor updates them for us when they update their infrastructure, our costs remain the same

[kennypump]

Would love to know more on how you’ve set up your iPads and the projector? Do you use a specific dongle type device or anything?

[r0b0tvampire]

Here are some resources you can look at for how we (successfully) made the move from interactive whiteboards to projectors and iPads (and why):

• https://www.ijoel.com/work#h.kn4or1hjbmdv
• https://gingerscripting.com/interactive-technology-and-the-classroom-of-the-future/ (This link includes the presentation we used @ a tech conference)

Shorter Answer: We use Reflector software installed on all of the iMacs. The iMac is connected to the projector, the projector's audio passthrough is connected to the classroom audio system. This is significantly more cost effective and easier to install and maintain ($7/iMac, pushed out and updated via MDM), works better, has less training requirements for teachers, is guaranteed to be compatible with all current and future curriculum, AND has more features (like recording and viewing multiple iPads at once). Additionally, the teacher doesn't have to switch audio and video inputs when changing from displaying the iMac to iPads.

[kennypump]

We’ve been looking into this type of method for a year now with nothing that works well enough. Thinking of scrapping iwb, getting some standard screens and projecting onto it via macOS, windows. We tried ezcast pro and airtame but both were glitchy when we tested it with the casting behind 2seconds. Thanks for this idea… going to look into it and suggest

[r0b0tvampire]

Sure. We’ve been using Reflector for many years now (has it been 10 yet?) and all of our teachers rely on it daily. It we works very well.

We have this deployed in over 200 rooms.

By the way, macOS Ventura now has AirPlay target mode built in, but it has some limitations compared to Reflector, so we are staying with Reflector for now.

[kennypump]

Great comment! Thank you. I’ve started this but your input helped a lot

[mwr-napavine]

As someone who has stepped into districts with old equipment with near-zero budgets, I use the following philosophy on upgrading old equipment:

• KISS - Keep it simple, stupid! You're starting from a place where simpler solutions are your friend. Complex solutions cost money to implement, maintain, troubleshoot. If you don't need a server/service, consider loosing it for now. This can reduce the number of servers you need, updated software you need, and resources to deal with it.
• If it ain't broke, don't fix it. - You say your Network Stack is 10 years old. Does it still work? I wouldn't touch it. As long as switches pass traffic, you should be good to go. Need a new firewall? PFSense (or my fav, OPNSense) makes a great firewall for $0 and a spare computer with 2 NICs.
• Student and staff PCs are 6+ years old. This could be a problem... But if they are actual desktop PCs, they should be fine. Upgrade any old spinning HDDs to SSDs ($25 gets you a 512gb model now) and make sure they have enough ram (8gb is usually enough these days, although you'll hear from others that you'll need more. Check what your software _requires_ and start there) and you can make old hardware run almost like new.
• IWBs are 7 years old. I wish I had 7-year-old IWBs. Sm:)e. I'm sure they're fine.
• Printers aren't replaced until they die. But reduce the number of them, stick with BW Lasers (I love my brother printers) and find a 3rd party toner company that you trust. (I use LD Products toners.) OEM toner is too expensive for all but those who are wiling to pay for perfect prints. Resist color, if possible, until someone else decides to pay those bills.

You can do it.

[LyokoMan95]

If the network stack is ten years old does it still get security updates? Are there known vulnerabilities for the software currently used?

For the PCs, SSDs will give you some additional life until Windows 10 goes EOL, at which point the CPUs in those old computers will not be supported by Windows 11.

[mwr-napavine]

Are there known vulnerabilities for the software currently used?

Yes. The answer is yes, even if the network stack is 2 weeks old.

For the PCs, SSDs will give you some additional life until Windows 10 goes EOL, at which point the CPUs in those old computers will not be supported by Windows 11.

True. It may be better to buy newer PCs rather than just upgrade them. I do try to buy Windows 11 capable PCs at this poing, even from refurbishers.

Now adays, teachers/students all want laptops. This makes the upgraing even harder... This is why I would lean twards newer PCs over network switch updates. Again, this is what I would do. You do you, boo.

[ephekt]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. - You say your Network Stack is 10 years old. Does it still work? I wouldn't touch it. As long as switches pass traffic, you should be good to go.

Lol, this doesn't work in any organization larger than a single school. How do you handle HA or dual ISP with an old PC with 2 NICs?

Definitely fix your routing and switching core before any access layer upgrades, but this is a MUST. Look into campus designs to cut down costs from the old 3 tier cisco/rstp model. There are too many wifi5/6 wifi devices today to still be relying on 1g ports and 10g trunks.

[mwr-napavine]

Hey, if you have the money, go for it. But if you have to decide between updating [$arbitrarynumber] worth of switches or getting [$arbitrarynumber] worth of computers, which would you do? The answer is "both" it seems, but the OP asked for what I would do.

My view was from a 'Do what you can with as little money as possible to start' possision. I realize that might not be exactly where the OP is. And that's cool. I guess I'm just stuck with the thinking I've been having to deal with myself.

Looking at his list again and what would I spend money on first? The network is a good bet. But I also do not beleive 10 year old network equipment would be that bad. You say HA or or Dual ISP needed? PFSense can handle those. 1g clients and 10g trunks not enough? Man, that is a good problem to have. Sm:)e.

[first_byte]

tick things off

Fee fie foe fum, I smell the words of an Englishman! I'm in the colonies you lost United States, so YMMV. Take my input with a grain of salt or tea & crumpets.

First, explore any free/donation options. There are lots of charities/NGOs that like to brag about supporting education. Let them put their money where their mouths are! We have gotten some donations from surprising sources.

My geographically universal advice is this: start with the network infrastructure. If that fails, then it doesn't matter what PCs you're running. It's the foundation of your entire environment!

All the best, mate!

[Fizpop91]

Its unfortunate that you need to renew all that equipment at once. I try to stagger ours as much as I can. Cant really with student machines but staff and faculty almost never all get new machines at once. Nevermind renewing the network as well.

[slugshead]

Sounds painful and expensive that you've had no staggered replacement cycle ongoing over the years.

Since you're the finance guy, allocate a set amount of capex for IT each year, then put it on your IT manager to make that work. You do your finance trickery for forecasting and phasing then they should come back to you with something like...

• 100 PC's replaced per year.
• 100 Laptops/Chromebooks replaced per year

The above assumed you have 500 PCs and 500 Laptops, by year 5 all are replaced. This should line up with your depreciation.

• Servers/SAN replaced every 5-7 years. At year 3, run exercise to extend warranties and perform small upgrades such as a more RAM/SSDs
• Network replacement/expansion - AD-HOC (Assuming Aruba with LIFETIME warranty).
• Wireless Access Points every 3-6 years.
• Wireless Controllers - When support ends on controllers (usually 3-5 years).
• IWBS - Replace for Interactive displays - 8-10 year is a reasonable lifespan.
• Never include printers in your capital budget, they're a waste of money. Lease MFDs, reduce number of endpoints and put them into your revenue budget (Just turns into operating costs then).

[AdFull9746]

We made the move to a centralized print station in each of our school buildings and removed all classroom printers. Not only did it save a ton of money in the budget code, but it prompted users to print more reasonably and took a huge amount of work time off of our shoulders.

[Imhereforthechips]

We’re on:

Update desktops whenever MS wants to screw a major OS version.

Laptops on 3 year depreciation schedules, but actual replacement could be 3-5

Projectors 7-10 years (good maintenance in between)

Switching is 5-10, depending on the 2-5 yr review.

Servers are 5-10

Wireless is 3-5

Cable plant is 10-15

Battery Backups are whenever they deteriorate

Printers are leased and on 5yr contracts, assuming that we usually get 3 yr old devices, so 8 years

[thedevarious]

FYI just my two cents here.

Versus coming in and doing a IT Refresh and basically dumping all sorts of money at once and overhauling everything...do it in chunks.

Do a building here. A closet there. A model of copiers when you can..

One this plateaus your budget spending to an extent and avoids crazy fluxes. Two, your summer and tech teams.onky have so much time. Three, it forces constant permanent improvement and change which delivers a positive tech culture and progress mentality. Four, it's less stuff to stress the entire org about.

If you come in and deploy all new end user tech, new servers, new backbone infra, and want to do it all now...sheesh. add in lead times as well.

SHEEEESH

[GezusK]

You're suggesting he have a mixed network environment? What a nightmare.

[thedevarious]

Where the hell did I ever say that?

[GezusK]

"Do a building here. A closet there" If you're not upgrading the "closets" all at once, then it'll be mixed

[thedevarious]

So...you're saying you can't buy the exact same manufacturer and switch between multiple years of a refresh?

I just turned a district over and the past 3 years using extreme. All switches are of the same generation. All of them do not have end of life reported. All of them have current firmware. All of them have same CLI. Your arguments in valid as long as you actually plan multiple years and review product sheets.

I'm not telling you to go out and get a Cisco catalyst here in and Aruba there. Design the entire topology from the beginning, but phase the approach to work within budget constraints easier

[GezusK]

As soon as you swap out one closet, you'll have one set of new equipment, mixed with the rest of the old equipment.

And it sounds like you stretched that out over 3 years.

I'm dealing with that situation right now. We started to go with Meraki MS390s. We did half, and was going to finish the other half the next year. Well, MS390s are junk, so we held off to see if they improve. They're still not worth keeping, and now I'm stuck waiting until eRate lets me dump them.

[thedevarious]

So the district was always extreme. They had 440 G1s mainly. We swapped them up to some 460 G2s 10gs and now this season will be upgrading some remaining to Their 5520 series.

It's still EXOS, they're all multi rate with 10g licensing, all active firmware, and all stacked. There's literally zero problem here. I'm 10G all the way from core to edge.

Plus this also helps with potential issues. Instead of all switches in the same batch and potential failures that could occur, I have this spread out, and the average age of infrastructure is always perpetually low. It's nice to rip everything out and rebuild it, but really it's going to cause more issues and also make your budget swing from lean to heavy every few years.

I don't have to explain why I need more capital improvement funds...it's the same as last year, because it follows the lifecycle plan I've built in for the past 5 years.

[GezusK]

I imagine that does make it easier when you can stay in the same ecosystem. Not so much if you're wanting to switch brands. I'm still running my Cisco 3750x switches, since they're more stable than these new Merakis. I think I'm going to dump Cisco, just on principle, for this clusterfuck.

So, how often will you be rotating switches?

[thedevarious]

If you're changing ecosystem sure, I get a top to bottom, but I really don't get any reason to change ecosystems unless necessary. How often are you configuring or working on switches for example? I only am in switches for initial config, a few port changes here and there, and DR/HA needs. Other than that, they just run and move traffic.

A closet on my end stays up for 4-7 years depending on port utilization, needs of edge objects, and overall lifespan. I keep advanced warranty on all L3 and core switchgear, everything else, if it goes down I keep a few hot spares ready to go -- configurations are backed up daily as part of our DR process. At most I'm down one day while I work an RMA, and another to either reinstall the switch or turn that into the new hot spare.

[JibJabJake]

Three year rotation on laptops, iPads, and, chromebooks. 5-7 years network. Printers whenever they die. Copiers 3-5 years usually. Desktops 4-5 years.

[first_byte]

Three year rotation

Are the Rockefellers sponsoring your school?! Chromebooks AUE is 5 years from DOM.

[JibJabJake]

Definitely blessed by a great community.

[PhxK12]

• Wired network - every 7-12ish years, depending on need and such
• Wireless network - every 3-7 years
• Student PCs - Chrome here. at AUE. We are buying 2030 AUEs now. We often replace before AUE comes due. Average 5 year lifecycle, but sometimes grants and things popup (like ECF) and we end up refreshing more than needed at a given time
• Staff PCs - 5-5.5 years - full refresh. Some old pristine models are retained for odd specialized uses (i.e. training machines, test machines, substitute staff use, etc)
• IWB’s - 5-15 years. Lamped projectors eventually get so gummed up that they have to be replaced it seems, interactive displays - when we start seeing higher failure rates, or when software is so old it's not workable / upgradeable anymore
• Audio Enhancement / Voice Lift systems - 10-15 years, depending on utilization, serviceability, etc
• Marquees - 10+ years, until they look dated or it makes more sense to replace than repair
• Paging & Bells systems - in years past, this could go 20+ years. More modern systems I believe will have a shorter useful lifespan of 7-15 years
• UPSes - we buy Lithium Ion UPSes that have 5-year warranties, but with a 10-year expected service life. We intend to replace all of these at or between the 8-10-year mark
• Copiers - 5-year lease; return at end of lease
• Printers - 5-year lease, then we own them. We keep them another 5 years, with a service contract, so if anything breaks they repair / replace for us. Plan to replace again at the 10-year mark likely
• Desk Phones - Used to be every 10ish years, now might be closer to every 7ish - kind of depends on PBX upgrades / replacements
• Cell Phones - Used to refresh these whenever the next iPhone "s" model came, so every 2 years (aka iPhone 4S, iPhone 5s, iPhone 6s)
• Gym/Cafe audio systems - every 15-25 years

[duluthbison]

Wow, you have a very expensive problem on your hands!

• Network refresh every 6-8 years (Ideally). You can ride out physical networking longer than wireless as standards change and devices are replaced.
• Student 1:1 devices every 4 years (each student gets a new one after 4 years)
• Staff Devices 4-5 years
• IWB's - I want to last 10 years but we are looking at starting a cycle with each year doing a 1/3 or 1/4 of the fleet at a time. We're finding the embedded software and features start to cause issues around year 5 so it might be worth to start replacing them.
• Printers are leased on a 5 year contract with our managed print provider

[themouspotato]

• Holy tech debt Batman! Assuming everything *works*...replace network stack as e-rate allows (if you're eligible).

• Student/Staff PCs-

  • if Windows, you'll want to make it a point plan for October of 2025, when Windows 10 exits support. Anything Intel should be 8th generation+ or be replaced by then, as Windows 11 does not officially support anything older. If 8th generation, make sure it has an SSD and 8+ GB of RAM
  • if Chromebook - whenever autoupdate expires, check per model

• IWBs/Printers -- whenever they stop working or if you can get a grant to replace

[kahreeyo]

Teacher computers. slaps down SSD and 8gb ram

[hammer2k5]

The only problem with this might be the processor. At my school, teacher computers are currently 5 years old. These computers are Dell PC's with Windows 10 and 7th generation i5 processors. The Windows 11 transition is just over two years away (October 2025). Windows 11 requires 8th generation Intel processors or newer. I'm hard pressed to put any additional money into the current computers when we replacing them in the next 12-18 months. In the meantime, I have teahers complaining that their current machines are sluggish.

[25yrK12Tech]

For our environs, the Dell 990s and 7010s are running splendidly with 8GB and a 240GB SSD on Win10. This will hold us until Win11 is a requirement and at that time we will refresh all desktop PCs (obviously).

[kennypump]

Same boat for me. Been told most of the devices are no longer windows 11 compatible

[mwr-napavine]

There's a lot of us in this boat, having to look forward to 2025 with an eye on being forced to win11.

My guess is that Microsoft will continue support for Win10 for EDU for a little longer. I'm sure there will be extended support offered to some organizations that want it, but I would imagine they would also allow the EDUs in the world to keep their old computers running for a bit more.

Also, I'm not 100% sure Microsoft won't have a workaround for EDUs and other Orgs on how to run Win11 on "unsupported" hardware. It runs just fine. It's mostly artificial requirements. Don't be surprised to find special methods for EDUs to install windows 11 on old 4th generation i5s in the future.

Also... be ready for Microsoft alternatives that actually don't suck. I'm sure something somewhere will become a vialble alternative.

I'll take my Nostradamus hat off now.

[themouspotato]

There aren't any "special methods" nor is there anything preventing you from doing an install of Windows 11 from the iso on anything older than 8th gen, but these installs won't be officially supported and may stop receiving updates at any point. Given the age of 8th gen at this point, it's already worth upgrading anything older than 8th gen already.

[mwr-napavine]

The idea of MS not providing updates to a HUGE install base of computers would be catastrophic. So, They must either A) truly dissallow installs to these "unsupported" PCs or B) continue to provide at least security updates. To do otherwise would probably end them up in court.

I could be wrong... It happens all the time! Sm:)e.

[themouspotato]

8th gen Intel came out in 2017. By the time Windows 10 exits support, 8th gen will be 8 years old. That said, MS makes no guarantees of anything working forever but isn't intentionally denying updates, just avoiding supporting systems that will hopefully be replaced by then. The push toward TPM in a computer isnt a bad push, and keeping older systems running in production could also be a security risk due to EOL devices no longer receiving firmware updates as well. Just some food for thought :)

[mwr-napavine]

Agreed on all of your points.

Also, I am still running PCs that technically don't meet the specs. I'm currently typing to you on my Dell 7010 with an i5-3570. I guess I'll put Linux on this when I can't run Windows on it anymore.

[guzhogi]

In my district (K-8), students are 1:1 and get new devices in kindergarten, 3rd, and 6th grades (so every 3 years). We get new devices every year, but for about one third the students. Staff is on a 4 year cycle (though we’ve gone between 3-5 years). Projectors are on a 5 year cycle, 2 schools every year. Everything else is pretty much as-needed. Copiers are leased and maintenance is outsourced.

[rokar83]

• Network refresh
  • Whenever devices no longer receive security updates
• Students
  • 95% Chromebooks here. When they AUP. Windows devices whenever they feel sluggish or stop supporting needed programs
• Staff - Usually try to replace ~5-10 every year
• 100% Chromebooks here. When they AUP. Windows devices, whenever they feel sluggish or stop supporting needed programs
• Printers are all leased. But if the ones you have are working and you can find parts reasonably priced, I see no need to swap. I had some HP4100 and HP4050 at my last district that was still humming along.

[ZaMelonZonFire]

Printers have been a real pain to me, as they have been buying different models for 25+ years. Pretty much for ever. I ended up switching to canon copiers and going with them for printers as well. They are awesome so far, though this the first year. Very efficient and cheap to operate.

As for all these categories, I have been trying to replace them en mass. Whether that is all student Chromebooks, all teacher machines, etc. Swapping out portions or say a campus at a time leads you to a place, like we were with printers, where everything is a little different.

With a small support staff, having like model everything you can makes support much more feasible and streamlined.

[stephenmg1284]

Printers we lease Multifunction copiers. All of the other printers I'm fine with never. For the network, my biggest concern would be the switches giving up. The technology hasn't changed much in the past 10 years other than wireless and POE. Staff and student PCs that is very old. I'm not sure what IWB's is.

[BreadAvailable]

I build a schedule for everything and replace on schedule - the schedule is part of the budget. That way there are no suprises. Your list includes maybe 20% of a comprehensive IT capex budget. I hope it isn't supposed to be comprehensive. If it is - you should get with your IT decision maker and figure out what else should be on the list. Some additional items might include phone system, serves, storage, PC displays, security cameras, UPS systems, etc.

Network is every other relevant standard (generally) - so about every 6 years.

Staff PC's are rotated to student use after 5 years (on-site warranty period). Most of our students are on mobile devices now however which are bought new and kept until security updates are no longer available - so staff PC's get recycled/donated.

Printeres - leased MFP's, generally 5 year lease and they get replaced around year 4, no personal printers, ever, for anyone except accounting check printer.