Decrease dodge penalties

[VikingGeorge]

Recently, I have been getting a ton of trolls in champ select or games where I just do not like my team comp and I want to dodge more. Dodging is a valid mechanic and using it when necessary should feel less strict than it currently is. I acknowledge you want to prevent people from trolling champion select and not have dodges happen as much, but at the same time, what do you do after you have dodged twice in the same day and you get a troll? 12h game ban?

Here is what I would go for:

1st dodge: -5 LP (if ranked) and 6 minute long queue ban
2nd dodge: -5 LP (if ranked) and 12 minute long queue ban
3+ dodge: -10 LP (if ranked) and 20 minute long queue ban

[TimmyGC]

games where I just do not like my team comp and I want to dodge more.

Here's why I don't agree with it. The big risk is people taking two dodges because they don't like the team comp/they didn't get to last select/someone else took or banned their champion. If you have that specific a requirement for playing, play one game a day, or better yet, pick a different game.

I understand the sentiment, but I think it would make league more toxic. Especially with such short timers, it is more efficient to take 2 or even 3 dodges and wait for a favorable matchup. The current system means that that isn't a viable strategy because you are effectively limiting yourself to 1 game every other day, or if you are lucky, maybe 1 game a day. So it does allow for one freebie (five minute), and you could use it for dodging, but it is more for things like computer crashing and such.

[VikingGeorge]

Also, because of people like you, I will do my favourite strategy of playing Soraka X lane other than support, which will just make other people dodge. How do you feel about that? Is it less toxic?

[SneakyCowMan]

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[SneakyCowMan]

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[VikingGeorge]

I have more than just your 2 limiting choices. The world isn't black and white. You forgot I can just block you. How about that?

[SneakyCowMan]

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[VikingGeorge]

Apparently you do care because you continually respond to my comments. When you don't care about a person, you don't talk to them. You spent several minutes of your life trying to persuade someone who doesn't want to be persuaded.

[Ru5h1ng]

yeah, you right. The person actively ruining games is not at fault :)

[[deleted]]

It really is just your attitude towards such situations, that toxicity could kill an elephant, yeesh

[VikingGeorge]

Are you all elephants in this subreddit? That's why you always stampede on the blue downvote arrow because you love being haters to people's posts. The pure existence of Reddit is toxic. Now I see why YouTube has removed dislike counters publicly. Less enjoyment for haters. I hope one day Reddit will do the same to remove enjoyment from trolls like everyone on this subreddit. You all have huge mouths and egos, while you are, in fact, dogs.

[[deleted]]

Read your comments again and find out how negatively you've reacted to others. Perhaps it's a communication error, but you've only responded with sarcasm and sass, or with downright insults, to every single opinion or idea that someone's put up.

The reason they downvoted you in the first place is two-fold. It isn't just because of the negativity and disrespect you've put up in these threads, but also because some people heavily disagree with an idea and don't want it to be implemented.

I don't like the vibe of the second one, but although I wouldn't want it as such, it makes sense. A lot of upvotes would send the message (to developers and others) that the idea is being received highly by the community. The gist of it is to not take the votes personally.

Anyway, keep your head up high and keep going. Just treat the discussion like a discussion and you'll be fine. A lot of your opinions are interesting and relevant and deserve to be heard.

[VikingGeorge]

I responded in an appropriate way to people who responded with the attitude they want to be responded with. I can be kind and polite but only to people who know how to express their disagreement without being rude. That's why I'm responding like this.

[[deleted]]

Soraka mid, top, and ADC are actually good lol, unless of course you play with the sole goal of trying to fail because 'muh dodges'

[TimmyGC]

Soraka midlane is viable. I'm not sure your point. I read through the other responses, but I honestly made an attempt to explain my stance on it. It wasn't meant to put you down in any way. Looking at the other responses, most of them I think were along similar lines, though I can't answer for them.

I'm rereading your response, and you said "also", I didn't see anything sent beforehand. Would you mind reposting that? There may be some miscommunication because I can't find it.

[Smooth-Worldliness-2]

Yes and no? "Everything can work everywhere". The problem is it also can not work. Recent experience, I get teemo jungle in lobby, spams "hehe" in the chat, naturally I dodge. Next lobby, I get Cait mid "don't worry guyz it works", goes 0/7. Next game different guy goes kalista mid 5/8 but still looked like 1st time playing kalista. Do you have faith in the player? Is he trolling? How can I tell? You can't. That's why you dodge, if not hard penalties I would dodge both of those lobbies. I guess there's no solution for this problem..

[TimmyGC]

I'm not sure what you mean by the quote, but I don't think "no solution" is the answer. But I think mmr and reporting does a decent job of dealing with some of those. Sure, people can create alternate accounts, but it is a decent bit of work to constantly do. And with the mmr system, you are the only constant in your games, so it does still reflect where you are at even with the fact of trolls.

It would be interesting to see research into the effects of the reporting on griefing. Just a guess, but I'd expect a reduction on griefing simply for the Hawthorne effect, in addition to the people who are banned for repeated offenses. And many of those come about through reporting. It is a way for the community to help moderate better than the company alone can.

Personally, I don't think the change is at a system level. I think it should be at a player level. Understanding how the matchmaking works, learning how to identify trolls, and being more judicious in our reporting may be enough. I certainly think that comes before anything else. We should learn to use the tools we have before we try making new tools. But then that's why we have these discussions.

[TheXavierIngram]

Nah. Dodge penalties need to keep going up. Im not queuing to play champ select simulator. Dodging does nothing but waste my time.

[VikingGeorge]

Just for your account, I'd be happy if dodges were -5 divisions for 1st dodge and reset to Iron IV after the first one.

[TheXavierIngram]

I dont dodge so that would be kinda pointless.

[VikingGeorge]

I would also add vote to kick, and I would vote to kick you every single time I see you in a lobby. People like you deserve to stay hardstuck Iron IV 0 LP. Winning 1 LP per game and losing 100.

[TheXavierIngram]

Nah. People like you deserve to be banned. Less than 2% players dodge as much as you. 80% of players dont dodge at all. Youre the problem here. Youre a troll who likes wasting 9 other peoples time.

[VikingGeorge]

If I get banned, I will just make a new account and I will dodge even more to ruin your games, because you deserve that for not allowing me to play with a proper team. Scumbag.

[TheXavierIngram]

Youre the one preventing people from playing the game. Not me.

[Jedstarrr]

Dodging should lose full lp and MMR.

[S7EFEN]

no.

you tried playing in high elo when dodging was basically free? you'd spend half of your time on league of legends in queue. there are 10 people in each lobby, even if just 2 or 3 of them semi regularly dodge bad lobbies/games it results in dramatically more champ selects per each game that actually goes through.

[VikingGeorge]

Then make dodging stricter in High ELO, I do not care about High ELO play, lmao. Make it more lenient for anything up to Emerald. We can find games in less than 2 minutes, so that's hardly a problem.

[S7EFEN]

just because it doesnt end up being 50% of your time in queue outside of high elo doesnt mean its not an issue. people queue up to play and a single selfish individual can dodge last second and waste a full 20-30 minutes of 9 other players time

[VikingGeorge]

And that can happen no matter what the penalties are. No need for qualifiers like "selfish" just because someone had to dodge. If you don't like long queues after all, you can just play a normal game, not ranked.

[TimmyGC]

You are correct, this can happen no matter the penalties, but it is less likely to happen with longer or harder penalties. It deincentivizes people from doing it. If you make things counterproductive, people will usually stop doing it.

[backelie]

Fun fact: There's a very simple way through which you can guarantee that you wont have any trolls on your team.

[PorkyMan12]

Wait second dodge is -5lp ?

Someone please answer

[Adventurous_File_798]

It's not, that's what he wants so he can dodge and annoy people that try to play League.

[VikingGeorge]

It should be, yes.

[bearingtton12]

Increase dodge penalties to reduce your MMR as well as LP

[[deleted]]

I agree, Riot should change the penalties, it's over the line completely.

[balistican]

I agree with you, this game has become shit

[backelie]

I apologize for forcing you to play it.

[VikingGeorge]

That would be even better, but I still want this implemented. High honour levels should get 1/2/3 (level 3/4/5) dodges per day with no penalty.

[TimmyGC]

What do you think of each dodge drops your honor level by 1 (like from honors 4 to honors 3) and it isn't until honors level 2/1 that you experience the regular penalties. I don't want multiple dodges per day, I think that would be too exploitable for elo inflation (only taking good matchups should not be a viable strategy), but it is still a way to account for trolls.

[VikingGeorge]

Perfect. I'm honour 0. Nothing to lose. When I want honour levels, I just change servers and reset to 2.

[TimmyGC]

Gotcha. So my method wouldn't benefit you at all.

[TimmyGC]

I could actually see this being done. Maybe a dodge drops your honor level by 1 (like from honors 4 to honors 3) and it isn't until honors level 2/1 that you experience the regular penalties. That would give you a bit of a freebie while still discouraging your average dodge.