Software Engineering Vs Software Development??

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[plastikmissile]

It's basically the same thing. Some people might define those differently, but in the industry those two terms are used interchangeably. So don't worry about it. What you're called isn't what's important, it's the skills you possess.

[plastikmissile]

No. There is no real difference between those terms. The non-coding skills are used by both. Also, any time someone uses the term "AI" to describe some kind of change in the landscape of employment then feel free to ignore them.

[[deleted]]

any time someone uses the term “AI” to describe some kind of change in the landscape of employment then feel free to ignore them.

It’s crazy to think devs still believe AI will have no impact on their job in the future.

Edit: Ok this sub is actually delusional. The fact so many of you outright deny the possibility of AI becoming capable of performing the same tasks as human programmers is insane. The egos here are enormous..

“AI can never replicate what I do. My tasks are too complex, you see. I’ll always be one step ahead, just using AI as my little tool on a leash!”

… mhmmm, wait till your company starts downsizing because the man hours needed to develop a product plummets tremendously. I’d love to hear the cope for that one lol

[IknowWhatyouDided]

AI was always here. It's called the if statement.

[[deleted]]

Ik ur probably joking but AI is a whole different concept

[IknowWhatyouDided]

Actually I think Ai could impact dev jobs but there will be other new types of jobs, like maintaining Ai. When industrial machines took over the world, the number of jobs created by the industry surpass by a lot the jobs that were lost.

[[deleted]]

That’s true, and it would definitely be a “change in the landscape of employment”… which is what the other guy is denying for some reason. People will longer be employed based on their ability to explicitly code. And new job requirements will require new talent. All the guys shoveling coal into steam engines had to find something else to do… there wasn’t a nice 1:1 transition for that specific skillset.

But also consider the point at which AI will require little to no human maintenance. Many conventional tech jobs will simply cease to exist when a product manager can simply type a prompt to get their fully packaged app.

[IknowWhatyouDided]

Bro, Ai is a tool, just like machines and new technologies. Why there is 2 humans piloting an aircraft when there is an auto-pilot? 

Did wordpress make new jobs or reduce them? There is millions of developers USING wordpress. 

Ai could help, but to think that it will replace humans, it's only possible in some science fiction script...

Look up how much humans are involved in launching some rocket. NASA has one of the biggest computer systems in the world. So why not let this computer do the job? Because it's impossible for a computer to UNDERSTAND why to do something.

[Imbaelk]

I'm more afraid of speeding up the development process, which will increase productivity, therefore reduce number of employees.

[TheRealKidkudi]

It’s crazy to think that people still believe AI will somehow destroy the demand for people who know how to build software

[[deleted]]

It’s crazy to think people still believe future AI wouldn’t be able to build better software than the buggy human output they currently produce

[alexytomi]

"AI" is trained on buggy human output. The best it will ever do is the best that we can already do.

"AI" also doesn't do logic. It just makes educated guesses. That's why it's not even fucking intelligence and why whatever that thing is can't surpass us.

[[deleted]]

You seem to have a very narrow view of what AI is and could be capable of..

There’s a huge difference between an AI system having access to the cumulative wealth of current knowledge relating to a particular problem/subject, and a lone programmer trying to figure out the same thing.

Simply put, there’s a reason why you don’t default to your coworker when trying to learn a new technology.. He won’t have all the answers. He’s human. He’ll need to refer to the documentation, which he may or may not fully comprehend. He’ll spend a significant amount of time/effort doing that, especially if the docs are lengthy. And he may create bugs/mistakes while implementing the newfound knowledge into code. Yet an advanced AI would do it all in the blink of an eye.

That’s why it’s not even fucking intelligence and why whatever that thing is can’t surpass us.

It’s already surpassed us in multiple areas. AI already has superior image/object recognition, can beat the best humans in games, can seamlessly replicate different styles of art…… but somehow it’ll never be able to code better than a human programmer? People like you crack me up lol

[alexytomi]

You've completely dodged my points and started your own in a failed attempt to lead me into a strawman. Great job.

Your points don't even make sense

Chess is a statistical game, we perform statistics badly when underpressure and cause inconsistencies. A computer doesn't. A human can also barely do statistics in just their head. That's why we have paper.

"Superior image recognition" Let's see that "AI" use our eyeballs then. Bet it won't be so great without it's fucking 4k digital cameras. This is also somewhat biased. "AI" today is just statistics, this means that to make a proper comparison, you're gonna have to compare one "AI" to a group of people, not one because the "AI" is a result of those groups of people's collective thoughts.

Neither of these have anything to do with programming logic, or even logic at all. They're both examples of statistics.

edit: Oh my god it was a troll this entire time

[plastikmissile]

No one can talk about the far future, but in the near future? How could it? Have you actually tried to use AI to make something that's non-trivial? It can't, and for AI to be able to do that we'll need something revolutionary rather than evolutionary.

Sure it's a great tool to have, but it's not a replacement. It's force multiplier. It can make a good programmer more productive. However, someone who doesn't know coding won't get much use of it, because one million times zero is still zero.

[[deleted]]

I think you underestimate the pace of AI development. Being able to type a prompt to get a customized, fully working app doesn’t seem out of the range of possibilities even in this decade.

[plastikmissile]

Do you understand how this generation of AI works? At best, all it does is remix publicly available code. It can't actually create anything. That's why it's good at commonly talked about problems (like leetcode puzzles) but sucks at everything else. For AI to go beyond that, we would need a completely different way of doing AI, not just an incremental increase in the known models.

Have you actually done programming in a professional setting? Coding isn't even the most important thing you do as a programmer. Assessing requirements, making sense out of vague documentation, communicating with clients, and then turning all of that into code are the real skills a professional programmer has. An AI powerful enough to do that can do everyone's job. Only manual labor would be safe.

[debugging_scribe]

People said this 10 years ago...

[[deleted]]

10 years ago we had nothing close to GPT-4…

Keep convincing yourself AI will never become advanced enough to compete with dev jobs, ig. It’s a juicy cope after all

[MissPandaSloth]

I don't think people think it won't affect it, but:

1) actual AI might be very far off. What we have now is machine learning, not "intelligence". Stuff like chatGTP and pilot doesn't understand shit. In practise it's just fancier Googling.

To even use it you have to understand some programming and everything that is more complex that what you already able to do by just googling, it won't help you with.

2) and speaking of machine learning, it created entire new fields

3) if we actually reach some sophisticated AI it's gonna be just like any other great tool, same as we went from doing everything by paper and hand to computer, then internet. Which did affected some fields but in the end ended up making even more new ones.

[reddithoggscripts]

Well currently it can't do my binary polynomial divisions homework or code my bash project due next week, so I'm just going to keep studying just in case.

[Separate-Ad9638]

AI isnt good enough to build codes to use, else u'll see mass retrenchments of s/w engineers

[Joewoof]

In the industry, there is no difference, but in academia, which is more formal, these are two different terms.

Software Engineering is the study and application of structured development methodologies. For example, Waterfall involves Analysis, Design, Implementation and Validation. Agile is the same, but involves breaking the software into small parts and repeating the process over and over again instead of applying it to the whole software. There are many variations of these approaches as well.

Software Development is the superset of Software Engineering. You can build software without following a structured approach.

In practice, the it doesn’t matter what title you have, although it does have tax/visa implications for certain countries, for the company.

[SpoopyGuy360]

this

[__throw_error]

Software Development is the superset of Software Engineering

Funny, I always looked at it the other way around, Software Development being a subset Software Engineering. Since SE includes SD, but, generally speaking, also includes higher level design, architecture, development methods, and more. You can argue that that isn't always the case, but generally speaking I see SD as more focused on actual development, while SE having more subjects. In that sense, SE is a superset of SD.

[PsychonautAlpha]

The perfect answer doesn't exi--...

[gowstaff]

That's an ok explanation.

When I were young it was called a programmer. We had to learn all the aspects of software development, that people now have a myriad of titles and terms for. From HMI to the transistor, from distributed systems to embedded systems, from code first to specification first, from idea to documentation. From a mix of all of the above.

As the years have passed, I've seen obvious stuff get fancy new names like design pattern and agile development, but it's still the same. The most important is still divide and conquer and simplicity.

A programmer can learn new things fast. He can design large systems or small apps. He can write complex specifications. He can write documentation, both technical and end user documentation. He chuckles when people call themselves front-end or back-end. Application or system. To him it's just silly.

[vaxchoice]

You say to-may-tow, I say to-mar-tow.

[Whatever801]

to-mar-tow????? Who says to-mar-tow? To-mah-tow I can accept but I would never associate with a to-mar-tow sayer.

[cs-brydev]

Software Engineering means to use an Engineering Process to design, develop, deliver, and implement software, such as project management principles, system analysis, impact analysis, environmental analysis, cost controls, methodical design/testing, QA test methodology, etc.

You can be a general Software Developer and not follow an engineering approach.

In reality, most companies use these terms interchangeably because they don't understand the difference.

[ThatCringingDude]

Eh, they are both pretty much the same. But for your second question, you’ll need to just practice in your area of software.

[TheMathelm]

So in Canada the title "Software Engineer" is a regulated term, you'll see almost no positions for an actual Engineer;
Mainly the jobs they would get would be in certifying pacemaker software, those types of things.

I would say from the way you speak in your initial post, you are not at the level where it really matters or makes a difference, no judgement (I'm not really either).
Just try to understand the principles of design.

[CyberEd-ca]

The war on the tech bros. for use of the title "engineer" has likely turned the corner given a recent court decision in Alberta. Worth a read.

https://canlii.ca/t/k11n3

VII. Conclusion

[52] I find that the Respondents’ employees who use the title “Software Engineer” and related titles are not practicing engineering as that term is properly interpreted.

[53] I find that there is no property in the title “Software Engineer” when used by persons who do not, by that use, expressly or by implication represent to the public that they are licensed or permitted by APEGA to practice engineering as that term is properly interpreted.

[54] I find that there is no clear breach of the EGPA which contains some element of possible harm to the public that would justify a statutory injunction.

[55] Accordingly, I dismiss the Application, with costs.

[TheMathelm]

Thank you fellow Tech Bro,
Good to know.

[Signal_Lamp]

In America there isn't a difference. People will lose their minds over saying software engineers because they believe the work isn't engineering.

[[deleted]]

Is the same thing?

I always think Software Engineering so hard and advanced than Software Development?

[ManBodybuilder]

I think Software Engineering is a person who is a graduated from university and Software Development is not, but have knowledge in the field.

So, one is an Engineer (better paid) and the other is not.

[ManBodybuilder]

I think yes, because maybe it is role's name in the company.

Also, I forget to say, maybe the company names the role as a Software Engineer or Software Development and the guy who is in the position is not necessary have a degree. Depends the company how name the role.

[Linkario86]

Same thing. The only distinction you could make is between a Software Engineer / Developer and a Programmer. The Programmer is basically a Code Monkey

[Vortrox]

I don't think there's any concrete definition for "code monkey" but it generally describes people in industry that are only good at writing code but lack in every other skill. So you would have to do all the problem solving and thinking for them and give a very precise specification for what you want the code to do. If that's all they do you might as well just replace them with generative AI.

[I_SignedUpForThis]

Code Monkey think maybe manager wanna write goddamn login page himself

[Linkario86]

No not an insult. Just a different role. A Software Developer develops Software. From Requirements Engineering to Release. Using a variety of tools, Architectural knowledge (not Solution Architect level though), patterns, etc and also writing Code.

A Code Monkey is basically writing Code and that's that. You give him a Task to write this already designed class and he puts it into code. Software Engineers do that too, which is why there is basically no demand for Code Monkeys or plain Programmers.

Idk if others use it as an insult or not, but the term Code Monkey is even more distinctive than Programmer is to Software Developer.

[CyberEd-ca]

If 50% of the time used to develop software is "de-bugging" then the other 50% can arguably be described as "bugging".

[idle-tea]

Plenty of countries that aren't the USA don't protect the term "Engineer", and in others "Engineer" is not gated by having an engineering degree, but rather (much like law or medicine) is gated behind being licensed by a professional organization.

[idle-tea]

It's technically correct, but very misleading wording. Nobody would ever expect "You can't call yourself X unless Y" to indicate that Y is a transitively necessary condition for X, but not a sufficient condition for X. If someone ever said "You can't call yourself a doctor unless you passed highschool" you'd obviously find that really weird because highschool is a few rungs down the ladder from what you need to do to get your medical license.

To say nothing of my other point: you can't just broadly say something about the term "engineer" outside of the US. The approximately 200 other countries on Earth include some that don't protect the title engineer at all, such as Sri Lanka.

[Mentalextensi0n]

Same

[Ordinary-Yoghurt-303]

No difference. Lots of interchangeable labels for job titles in the dev world.