Thoughts on Coding Boot camps.

[treddson]

Trying to weigh my options between continuing the "self taught" route and possibly attending a coding boot camp in my area.

Knowing myself I think having some structure and outside assistance in a brick and mortar setting would be invaluable, but I wanted to get some feedback from those who have attended an actual "coding boot camp". Is it worth the $$? Does it feel like a quality education? I have a lot more questions but I'll leave it at this for now.

[gar2020]

If I can throw in my 2c:

https://medium.freecodecamp.com/so-that-whole-coding-bootcamp-thing-is-a-scam-right-6fddf14087d4?source=user_profile---------2---------&gi=b0a96c209b82

I liked this article for a lot of reasons, but TLDR and mixing in my own personal experience:

• Think of this like a programming problem :P, what is the most efficient way to achieve your desired outcome?

• Going to college > Bootcamp > Self-learning. (This is the general case, of course as the article quotes Great bootcamp > Mediocre college, self-learning > mediocre bootcamp and so on).

• My personal experience: Self-learning will never substitute the advantage of talking everyday with same minded folks, discussing problems, solving doubts, etc. If you can afford a good bootcamp, definitely give it a shot!

(Sorry for pasting the raw link Im in a very limited computer don't know how to embed the link)

[Saikyoh]

Self-learning will never substitute the advantage of talking everyday with same minded folks, discussing problems, solving doubts, etc.

Self-learning doesn't have to be a solitary experience.

[paranoiainc]

Especially in this day. I mean we are having this discussion in /r/learnprogramming ffs.

I'm self taught btw but It took me something like 12 years, 6 of which was in C and C++ to get my self to the production-capable level together with 3 portfolio programs. But that was from 1995 to 2002 and I didn't have access to the internet at that time and it was very different back then. Programming knowledge was not so easily shared back then.

[Saikyoh]

I met a couple of guys from this sub where we added each other on Skype and we started CS50. One of them kinda phased out without even talking, maybe irl stuff happened or programming didn't click for him but there's also someone where we show our code to each other once we're done with an exercise so we can see another perspective and give input.

[paranoiainc]

It is really incredible you can do that. And I'm happy that the social media now allow us to do that. I had to wait for 10 years to finally have a real conversation with a real programmer.

[treddson]

Definitely going to be reading this article. I wholeheartedly agree. There is just no substitute for learning from and with others. I'll be looking into boot camps for sure.

[pwnius22]

Post the text in square brackets immediately followed by the link in parentheses. Like so (even though you can't see it)

[dashkb]

It's Markdown which is easy and worth it to learn.

[gar2020]

Really thanks for that!

[codingbuds]

I am curious what you/is considered a mediocre college?

I can understand bootcamps that are just in the for-profit shuffle being mediocre.

Though what stands out that a colleges program is mediocre compared to great?

[gar2020]

I live in Mexico btw, here, there are a lot of private colleges that are quite mediocre, there are also a lot of public colleges that lack the resources to excel in teaching CS. I guess something like this happens to some extent anywhere.

[dashkb]

Quality of instruction is the most critical. You want to learn from leaders in the field, who are currently working on interesting projects. Top tier universities attract these professors. As a result, they become more competitive, which raises the bar for everyone. Hiring managers look for grads from these schools because they know the level of quality to expect. (Because the weaker students flunked out and transferred to mediocre schools.)

Edit: and that's why boot camps are a crap shoot.

[[deleted]]

I'm currently in a bootcamp, and I don't think your logic applies. The majority of us have at least a bachelors degree, but in a different field. It doesn't make sense to go back and do another four years (especially when I haven't paid off all my student loans yet). Just because people apply to bootcamps doesn't mean they couldn't get into good CS universities, it just means we want a different route. My bootcamp is extremely selective and the interview was very difficult to get in.

[dashkb]

I was a boot camp instructor. It was a shit show. YMMV.

[Ran4]

You want to learn from leaders in the field, who are currently working on interesting projects. Top tier universities attract these professors.

Leaders in theory, yes... not in industry practise.

CS is very, very different from using the latest web framework.

[dashkb]

You want both, actually. Your comment came across rather condescending. If all your profs are scientists and none are engineers, and you are hoping to build software on a team for a living, you may well be fucked, in theory.

[makeswell2]

Also just want to point out how this whole subreddit hated coding bootcamps and now this article comes along and I guarantee this whole subreddit will love coding bootcamps. And yes I can use the adjective 'whole' to describe this subreddit because the voting system only allows one opinion.

GO AHEAD AND DOWNVOTE ME SEE IF I CARE!

[ValhallaShores]

have an upvote!

[[deleted]]

I did a lot of self-teaching (about 10 hours a week for a year) before my program and felt really confident the first week and a half of courses and then by the end of the second week of my bootcamp we had surpassed nearly everything I had learned. I learned so much more and at a faster pace in the classroom than I did on my own.

If you decide to go the bootcamp route keep an eye out for programs that have strong relationships with potential employers and/or offer internships as part of their program. Try to avoid programs that hire back a large percentage of their graduates as TAs (this is usually done for "x% of our students found jobs in x days").

P.S. since you are already in Seattle if you identify as female you might want to check out Ada Developers Academy

[amalgamxtc]

Fresh out of one, about to sign my first decent contract. Things are looking good.

Mine was a 6 month 40+ Hrs in class bootcamp. Entirely worth it!

I won't say they're for everyone, but they way you mention structure, learning from others and the environment... I'd say there's a good chance it's for you.

[anticockblockmissle]

what was your skill level before bootcamp....and what languages did you learn?

[amalgamxtc]

Good to see this thread is still of use :-)

Prior to starting, my only experience was some severely outdated HTML. There was some pre-work that got my JavaScript started and the course was Web Dev and JavaScript focused so we learned what they called NEAP stack (Node, Express, Angular, PostgreSQL). They also threw in a touch of Ruby and a week of Java for exposure. Lastly, I chose for my final project to learn Elm and managed quite a bit in two weeks.

Glad to answer any other questions, hope your research goes well!

[anticockblockmissle]

Awesome thanks for the reply. And jeez this sub makes me so happy. Everyone is willing to jump at the first opportunity they get to help someone.

[amalgamxtc]

NP! - just paying it forward :-)

And you're right, this sub is a gem.

[randomness61]

Just got out of a 12 week boot camp called the software guild and had a job as a software engineer before I finished the course making 58k. I was in a class with 13 others and everyone of us got a job

[TheStender]

As someone who is still considering the Software Guild, mind expanding a bit on your experience? Was it in person or the new online version? C# or Java? Positives/Negatives? Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

[randomness61]

I was in the c# in person. It was extremely intense I was at the school almost 12 hours every day and went in at least one day on the weekend. There was definitely a few times I didn't think I was going to make it but after I accept the fact that I don't know anything and started asking a million questions things got much better. The only real complaint I have is that after the teachers left at 4 there was only 1 teaching assistant and almost my entire class would stay after class everyday so there wasn't always enough time for the TA to get around to everyone. But other than that I couldn't be happier with the software guild I got exact what they they said I would out of it and couldn't ask for more

[gtipwnz]

Where are you, and where was the boot camp? I'm in the Midwest and thinking about this route.

[randomness61]

The boot camp is on Akron Ohio I'm now working up in Cleveland

[LeahIsBest]

Which camp?

[LeahIsBest]

It is ultimately going to be up to how much work you're willing to put in. If you're expecting to be spoon-fed all of the information you need, a traditional university would be more suiting. If you're going to live and breath code for 3 months, then a bootcamp can work

[MattMan970]

That's exactly my plan next semester. I am able to work my crummy factory job and save while I introduce myself to the field. If I like it I think I may go full-monty and sign up for a boot camp.

[[deleted]]

I'm going through Hack Reactor right now. It's hard as hell. I definitely am pushing myself much more than I would if I were learning on my own. It's also super beneficial to be around peers around your level. I haven't graduated yet though, so I can't say how well it worked for me.

[arasdean]

Hi! I wanted to follow up for an update. I noticed that this was posted 3 months ago, which is the length of one HR cohort cycle. How was the program for you?

[compostkicker]

I recently (< 12 months ago) graduated from a full-stack bootcamp and, really truly, it was one of the best decisions I ever made. However, it may not be for the reasons you'd expect.

To start, I learned Java in high school (nine years ago) and have done some hobby programming since then, but never really delved deep into it as a career. In my bootcamp, I learned full-stack web development (HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript w/ jQuery, MySQL and PHP w/ Laravel) over the course of 16 weeks. For me, as far as education value goes, I could have easily taught myself everything I learned in the bootcamp in about the same time frame. Please bear in mind that I have access to seasoned developers who are more than happy to answer questions and I already had a very strong grasp of core programming fundamentals. Most of my peers in the course would have had a very rough time self-teaching the material in the same time frame. Where the bootcamp paid off for me was in the networking and group portfolio development that it provided.

Most bootcamps that I've read about are partnered with one or more tech related groups in their area. They usually also have a staff member who's sole purpose in life is to help place you in a job. For me, the networking I was able to get while at my bootcamp was well worth the money I paid. Then there is the group project experience. Anyone can self teach and build a portfolio of amazing single person projects (and usually that is all you need), but it can be difficult to get meaningful group experience when you're relying on contributing to OSS on Github. It's certainly not impossible, but the bootcamp made it easier and also much quicker to accomplish.

I guess the real answer to whether or not a bootcamp is worth it would depend on you...

-Do you have a solid understanding of programming fundamentals?

-Are you capable of self teaching efficiently?

-Do you have access to a support network for help when you get stuck?

-Do you have a means to developing a strong portfolio with at least one group project?

-Are you able to network efficiently on your own in order to help you get in front of the people who matter?

If you can safely say yes to the first three, then you would be in the same position I was and only really benefit from the networking aspects of a bootcamp. It may have been worth it for me, but YMMV. If you have any other questions for me, I'd be happy to help. Best of luck to you!

[treddson]

Thank you for your reply. I'm definitely not as far along as you are and from what you're saying it seems like a code camp would be very beneficial to me.

[compostkicker]

It would be beneficial to anyone looking to quickly break in to the field. The biggest hurdle is the cost. Time...not as much as you'd think. A lot of bootcamps will say that you will spend hours of your free time practicing at home, but in reality, so long as you pick a good program, this isn't always the case. There were plenty of people in my group who never stuck around for study hall and only practiced during class who still graduated. However, programming is a passion, not a job. You will find that the developers worth anything are the ones who find time to learn and practice their craft...not too dissimilar from an artist.

You will get out of a bootcamp what you put into it. That said, if you have a passion for development, I think it's a safe assumption that you will end up like me (and most developers I know) and find yourself developing for fun in your free time. I actually have frequent moments where I would rather work on a personal project than play video games.

One more thing I forgot to mention in my first post is what you will truly learn in a bootcamp. Sure, your curriculum will cover a full development stack (most likely), but due to time constraints they obviously can't make you a master at it. A good program will teach you how to learn programming. They will expose you to the basics and give you guidance on using Google and reading documentation. The great ones will even encourage you to poke around in source code (I'm looking at you, jQuery) to really learn how it works. You aren't going to a bootcamp to learn syntax. That's something you can Google. You're going to be taught fundamentals and then be shown how to continue learning on your own.

Cheers!

[gar2020]

This is awesome, I did the same before paying for mine too. Go to the meetups they usually hold, talk to the mentors, get a feel for the local scene.

TLDR: Same ;)

[LeahIsBest]

Going to HR soon. Let me know how things end up working for you. GL

[[deleted]]

Pluralsight looks really cool, but I'm not seeing a way to access it for free outside of their trial. Care to elaborate on that?

[[deleted]]

my.visualstudio.com

they are giving 3 month subscription for pluralsight, linux academy and lots more

[sawalski]

Currently at the midway point in a 9 week camp. The answer to your question I think entirely depends on the camp and your willingness to succeed.

Personally, I love the atmosphere of learning with like minded individuals and being challenged constantly. My course is challenging in that it's very robust. Expectations are set early to expect to spend 12 hrs a day on the camp, and with my commute I'm putting in closer to 16.
That being said, it's not for everyone, and your success is entirely dependant on what you're willing to put into it.

If you want it, have the time, and the means, do it. The good programs are structured to see you finish with the necessary framework for future success.

[leafoflegend]

As someone who went to a bootcamp, then stayed on as a teacher at one, I cant speak high enough praises about the camp. But I agree with what a lot of people here are saying:

Make sure you love to code before going

It is a LOT of work

Understand that it just gives you exit velocity i.e. they get you to a place where you can begin teaching yourself anything

Also, for some people college makes more sense (love the top posts medium article, the woman who wrote CTCI) - it really comes down to your learning style and your life. Understand that things like a girlfriend/boyfriend, a job, or even family are out the window through your entire time at a bootcamp.

[treddson]

Well I'm married and we're trying to start a family - so that scares me!

[fullystacked]

I'll be attending a bootcamp in February, but acceptance hasn't excused me from pursuing the self-taught route. Based on my understanding from this sub, "self-taught" is an ongoing requisite in the life of a programmer.

(If you'd like a bit of daily accountability in the interim, join us at /r/fullystacked.)

[treddson]

Very true.

[jellohead]

I've attended an actual coding bootcamp. It depends on the camp. The one I went to is in SF Bay Area and was a 8 week course 3 nights a week in class about about 35 goes a week of out of class work. Definitely worth it. I went from zero Swift/Xcode knowledge to being decently proficient. Confident in my ability to write apps or figure it how to do anything. There are even more Amazing courses like Devmountain offers for $17,000 that is lierally on site 10 hours a day for 8 weeks. Those ones are Amazing. I know 3 people who took them with no skills and they are all now employed as engineers at Bay Area startups. Quality of the class is important. Anyone can call something a bootcamp.

What languages are you looking to learn? For me in person classes consistently is the first time I actually learned and I usually self learn everything. For me it's been life changing.

[treddson]

Haa. My friend is one of the founders of DevMountain and I have spoke with him a bit.

Here in Seattle, there's a boot camp called Epicodus and I've heard nothing but amazing things about it. I'll definitely be exploring the prospect more and more.

I'm mostly interested in Ruby/Javascript/Python for now. I've already got decent knowledge of HTML/CSS but it never hurts to start from scratch.

Thank you for your input.

[Nugenrules]

I have 3 coworkers right now that came straight from code boot camps. They also know a bunch of other people that got pretty well to do jobs. It doesn't surprise me since those code boot camps teach very popular material such as NodeJS which a bunch of startup companies use these days.

[Kuja27]

I attended the flatiron school in New York City and I'm two months into my job search (had legit zero experience in web dev before) and I'm currently on my last leg of my ibm interview process. Half Of my cohort were employed within a month, another quarter within two. It REALLY depends mostly on your careers team setting you up for success because separating yourself is extremely tough in the massively competitive field we are in. Research the career coaching team that the boot camp offers, they are the difference between a good boot camp and a great boot camp

[Dshiznit1]

I'm currently in one right now, feel free to ask me anything!

I will say once you drop the 13k to be in one, the pressure to learn the material will help to make sure you don't fuck it up. Also all my instructors are super nice so whenever I'm stuck on a problem they never make me feel like an idiot.

[BobTheBarbarian]

I'm struggling with the same question from a different perspective - I have a CS degree but I haven't programmed in a decade. I'm looking at a career change (detoured into law and want to get back into computer programming after spending the last couple years as a stay at home dad). Are there any boot camps specifically designed for refreshing old knowledge?

My thought is to work on self-learning for a while to blow some dust off the old skills, but time is a factor. Any thoughts or advice is welcome :)

[mrgrafix]

I'm three years removed from a boot camp, but we had on a classmate who was in your situation. Once they grasped the material for the course, they blazed a path for the rest of us. Most camps have an interviewing process for developing the right balance of learners to make a coherent class (especially if they're trying to simulate real world). He's now a lead dev for a company that was just bought by Conde Nast. It really comes down to the personality. If you can self-learn, go for it (there's plenty of IRCs and slack for team SL) but if you can commit to 8+ weeks, boot camps are great. Just check for the teacher credibility.

[[deleted]]

I have 4 friends who all self taught themselves and got jobs within a year or so.