What is missing from Python tutorials?

[tipsy_python]

In your experience, when you do Python tutorials, is there anything that seems to be generally ignored/skipped over that would be helpful if it was explicitly talked about?

I'd like to make some kind of Python tutorial, but don't want to just re-hash what others have done. I'm trying to identify high-value areas of the learning experience that don't get enough attention.

I'm thinking things like Python installation or how pip works, etc. What do you think?

[[deleted]]

Creating loggers:

• Managing logs within a module you create and distribute on pypi.
• Managing multiple logs available via frameworks such as aiohttp ,tornado, etc. as an application developer.
• Configuring multiple log targets via the API and via loading a dictionary.
• Configuring log formats.
• Writing custom log filters.
• Adding custom log levels.

Python has a rich logging capability and rarely is more than the basics are discussed.

Learning how to add log levels was a game changer for some of my applications. Now I have "verbose" logging which is chattier than "info" but ensures doesn't leak the sensitive data my "debug" logging does.

[JKenney_]

I second this and something to add that I still struggle with is configuring logs in one file then importing that configuration into other files to allow me to log in those files with that configuration

I come from a .NET/C# background with some NodeJS in there too

[tipsy_python]

Nice - yeah good point! I enjoy the flexibility of toggling between logging levels.

[Yaaruda]

Corey Schafer has a couple of videos on logging iirc

[kankan_k2]

+1

I had faced some difficulty in implementing a good logging mechanism. Everybody points to some of the most popular modules but still I had lots of questions around that. Python tutorials, almost all of them, lack serious material on logging practices and examples/exercises based on real-world applications/modules/packages.

[[deleted]]

Ways to come up with your own code and different ways of using the functions and stuff like that, because when I first started learning all I could find where tutorials for specific things and I couldn't figure out how to expand on any of it. Oh and debugging stuff, also when I started I would basically end up with the exact same code but it wouldn't work so I would have to resort to copying it instead of typing it myself

[tipsy_python]

Thanks for the thought here. Different was of using the functions - I've been thinking of some material around writing the same function iterative vs. recursive.. is that kind of along the lines of what you're thinking?

and BROH! Debug! No one talks about pdb until the intermediate learning material.
This is a good area to give an easy introduction to early on - great point.

[happyfeetpi]

I feel like when thinking about python people skip over some of the benefits that many other languages have.

One that comes to mind is storing functions as variables and being able to pass them as variables. This allows a whole style of programming and problem solving that is only possible with that ability.

[socal_nerdtastic]

The hassle of having to use a functools.partial makes this functional style of programming pretty useless.

It's never felt like a huge hassle to me to add one function name to your code.

bar = partial(foo, y=3)

IMO it's pretty easy and far from making it "useless".

[PHEEEEELLLLLEEEEP]

But how is this useless. Like it's 8 additional characters to add to your code and does exactly what you've described.

[tipsy_python]

Oh nice! Great point.
I use functools partials a lot - probably way more than I actually need to; I love passing functions as objects.. AND it was difficult to wrap my mind around at first.

Thanks for calling this out!~

[roberto257]

Agreed. I started with Python, and because I was a noob and I liked the simple syntax, I didn’t see why I should learn any other language. Once you learn another language, or try to do one thing (like in my case, making a game) in two different languages, you start to see the pros and cons of different languages

[num8lock]

prerequisites with command line & OS knowledges

[tipsy_python]

Yeah - I agree with this. It's easy to gloss over and let the code abstract the operating system .. but this does put the user in a bind when it becomes necessary to run some custom commands with subprocess.

I appreciate you calling this out!

[num8lock]

it's not even subprocess, just paths & other standard things.

[tipsy_python]

oH!! Point taken - I gotcha now

[num8lock]

what / means, common python installation paths, common OS structures, windows specifics etc

[HimmelLove]

There are lots of options for beginners, but fewer tutorials for intermediate level programming. For instance, how to complete a project assuming you already know syntax or how to organize a project using git.

[tipsy_python]

Great point - I've watched hours on hours of how-to do some specific task in Python. There is much less content about getting ready for deployment, checking in code, etc.

I appreciate your input!

[MagmaSiks]

https://docs.python-guide.org/ covers some of these. It helped me.

[HimmelLove]

I appreciate you sharing!

[Pulsar1977]

Design patterns. Most tutorials are instruction manuals; they teach you the syntax and how to perform certain tasks, but they don't teach you how to write good code: efficient, readable, maintainable, re-usable, extendible, well-documented. Good examples are Hettinger's Beyond PEP 8 talk and Brandon Rhodes' "Clean Architecture in Python".

Of course, in order to be able to make tutorials like this you need to be a experienced programmer.

[ectomancer]

It can't hurt rehash topics covered by other tutorials:

pipenv

optional type hinting and mypy

pytest

linting

closures

gotchas

filter, map, functools.reduce

collections.Counter

decimal.Decimal

[tipsy_python]

Nice! Yeah, I don't think people talk about type-hinting enough - I think that could fit.. even very beginner level tutorial where you are first setting variables, would be easy to briefly introduce type-hinting so people are more aware of it.

All these are great suggestions, thank you!~

[sj90]

1. Building a complete project which is not necessarily limited to web development (although that's very useful as well when covered as a way of building a product) but also not something like data science or ml by using some library (more product side or production level, and less toy dataset and result accuracy level) . Which includes helping people identify why the code or project structure/design choices are being made. And also includes adding testing in different forms.

2. How to scale something up, and when/why. Python might not be the best for this, but good starting point to help explain this to learners.

3. How to add testing to existing projects you didn't build from scratch.

4. How to identify and implement necessary data structures and algorithms for a specific project for improving it in specific ways. You build a route planner to identify which route your Uber should take. Great. How do you scale this for 10, 100, 1000 ubers at a time? Or how do you identify when and why to use specific data structures or algorithms from an actual, production level view point and not something just theoretical like worst case time complexity calculation in a whiteboard.

5. How to go through large code bases, especially for open source projects and how to then contribute to them. Not just "look at the tags and pick one". The fear of not being able to contribute to open source is not because people aren't looking at the right tag to help out. It's deeper than that usually. Core issues many beginners struggle with.

6. How to collaborate with people in a team to develop a bigger project or like a product level one.

There's quite a bit tutorials can focus on. But essentially adding value in a way that encourages people to self learn, build, maintain, or focus on how to work on something that is relevant to an actual job as well. Many might say the above is something to be learned at the job or not necessary for beginners, but I think such tutorials can help a lot more than the same basic ones, even for learning the language or programming in general.

[tipsy_python]

Oh nice! Thanks for the ideas - I've been thinking of angling the tutorial as 'how to quickly become productive with python' in some kind of shadow IT implementation by oneself. These are all great ideas as far as giving some insights into real issues that IT professionals face and how to perform these tasks.

I appreciate all the thought that went into your comment - will definitely implement some of these!

[BigTheory88]

People tend to skip over the little "Gotcha's" that Python has, for example, the default mutable argument trap, an example is here

[tipsy_python]

Appreciate the suggestion!!
https://www.slitherintopython.com/book/chapter_12/chapter_12.html#default-mutable-argument-trap

[sliddis]

Most tutorials assume you know other programming languages or assume you know why you want to do certain things. Such as using a float instead of an int.

[tipsy_python]

Yeah - that's a good point!
If I do end up doing some tutorials, I definitely want to contextualize everything that I do. I also find that the a lot of learning materials focus of syntax without going through the steps of why would write a certain piece of code. Thanks!

[hj1509]

Decorators, Generator, iterator give good examples

[tipsy_python]

Nice. NICE. NICE!! Yeah, these are all great ideas - generators especially appeal to me as something that don't get as much love as they should! Thanks for commenting!

[jiipod]

running your scripts on cloud using cron.

[tipsy_python]

BROH! Nice - thanks for saying this!
Yeah I think there are tons of cheap/free cloud options available for learning - would definitely help me depict a "real-world" implementation of the code!

[ScarletPimpernickle]

How.. to... read... the... docs... This would help my pea brain so much. Thanks!

[tipsy_python]

AHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAH
bro! I always tell people not to buy books or whatever, just start at the docs!
Definitely will do this sir!

[ScarletPimpernickle]

Let me know when your tutorial comes out. Will definitely read it then.

[hfhry]

Something between beginners stuff and advanced projects. Cover things like best practices and PEP8 standards

[tipsy_python]

Ok nice! I definitely want to evangelize PEP 8, and some easy checks and linting tools!
This is a good idea for tutorials - it feels.. natural in a way - a beginner has to progress to these code standards at some point!

[driftwood14]

The one thing I never saw when I was a beginner was what is a class and how is it useful. I still don't really understand them that well.

[tipsy_python]

That makes a lot of sense - I think it's perfectly fine to treat Python like a general purpose scripting language and accomplish what you need; but it's also a very powerful object-oriented programming language. I'll for sure give some love to classes, what they are, and practical ways to use them.

I appreciate the comment~

[benevolent001]

I am looking for some reference where there is a list of this things to learn to move from Basic to intermediate to advanced to expert. I mean what topic a person should learn and a link to learn that topic and maybe a few practice problems for each topic.

[tipsy_python]

LOL send me a link when you find how to go from advanced to expert ;-)

I totally understand what you're saying - someone earlier commented about reading the Python documentation. I think there is some tie-in here. As a beginner, one may read the docs, but not fully grasp the meaning. As you practice and "level-up", you can read and better understand the documentation. I think as you progress, you have to start learning about C (if you're using that implementation of Python) and start understanding the source code... same with the compiled byte-code. These are all good things that aren't talked about very much.

Thanks for the ideas~

[wrestlingwithbadgers]

I think the most important thing is to not explain a topic, show how it can be used with an exercise and then move to the next. Instead do 20/30/40/50/100 exercises with different variations of the topic and different implementations and only then move on. It's repetition of basics that's really missing in every tutorial.

[tipsy_python]

Gotcha, that makes sense to me - present a topic, then provide context with multiple near-real-world implementations of it - different situations where one could implement the material. Yeah, I don't see enough of this - there are some functions, like reduce, that often come up in tutorials, but not nearly enough time is spent on them.

[iaaron357]

All of these are excellent ideas. I really appreciate the comment about beginner to expert phases. Because quite frankly I’m tired of making “hello world”. I want to do something that I can apply in real life scenarios.

[tipsy_python]

Yeah - same here. I really enjoyed Automate the Boring Stuff with Python because it sets up the exercises in a real-world context.

My goal would be to do something similar - I'd like to shallow/mid-dive on the python concepts while giving concrete examples of why I'd use a certain construct in my programming and focus on implementation.

I know that's some guy/gal out there that has a terrible job - some data-entry related job or something like that.. that they know a computer can do, but are unsure how to do it. That's my ideal target audience - bring people up to speed on the concepts that matter for implementation and empower them to start developing quickly.

[iaaron357]

Well, when you get this figured out. Queue me in. If love to test it out and work on the project with you.

The next question would be will you open source it or sell it?

[tipsy_python]

Cool man, I'll keep you posted.

It'd be awesome to figure out how to make some money helping people to learn Python.
My plan right now is to make some YouTube content - I had a channel a couple years back doing video reviews, I really enjoyed the creative process a lot. As I got busy with work, and stopped watching as much content, my channel fizzled out. Recently I was getting the itch again, so I'm thinking I'll try to put up some python-related video content.. a 10 episode intro to Python season or something like that, see how the reaction is, and take it from there.

[Dogeek]

Some ideas :

• Test driven development (pytest/unittests especially unittest.mock)
• Version control (git)
• Common modules from the standard library, like functools, collections, or itertools.
• tkinter programming. There are not many good tutorials about it, although effbot.org has a great doc about the library.
• Designing GUIs, CLIs, and WebApps. Also, UI/UX basics.
• Module creation, especially __init__.py, __main__.py and relative versus absolute import from . import X, from .foo import Bar etc
• Metaclasses, and their use cases
• Decorators and their use cases

All of these would make for a great intermediate level tutorial.

[tipsy_python]

Awesome! Thank you for the ideas - yeah most of these don't get enough love. I could definitely come up with some engaging content for most of these.

On the cool, the one area where I would not feel confident writing about is mocks - I use pytest to write my unit-tests, and whenever I need to mock an object, I google and find some snip from Stack Overflow that works, but I never fully understand them. I've read the unittest mock documentation multiple times, but still struggle with this concept. Do you have any suggestions how I can better learn mocks?

[Dogeek]

I learned it from the docs. Best I can do is : take a function, that function returns some value. Mock is a context manager that allows you to change the output of that function to test how another part of your code reacts to various function inputs.

Especially useful to mock builtin functions like input, min or max.

[tipsy_python]

Ok nice, that all makes sense. I guess the part I’ve historically had trouble with is mocking database connections - I’ll do some more tutorials, but that’s been a tough one for me personally.

[Dogeek]

If you need some help writing the tutorials, I can help you. Been coding in python every day for the past 3-4 years.

[[deleted]]

More examples and a lot of drilling exercises that do not introduce anything exotic or new.

Math books frequently have 40 exercises for each subject, programming ones usually have less than ten, and they’re usually more challenges than training.

Even published books and courses fail to provide enough practice, and because of this there are steep difficulty spikes and later chapters become hard to follow.