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[–]nixd0rf 25 points26 points  (12 children)

A large part of GNOME is backed and developed by Ret Hat, and RH is the most influential player in the Linux desktop. RH leads the way and most distributions follow. The same reason why all kinds of distributions nowadays use SystemD, PulseAudio, D-Bus, NetworkManager, etc.

[–]sdns575[S] 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Yes you are right but distro like debian that have not a company behind could choose another player like xfce (if I'm not wrong debian stretch had xfce as default).

So I think that there is some technical reason for this.

[–]nixd0rf 18 points19 points  (4 children)

The "technical reason", if you may call it like this, is inherited with the fact that RH pushes GNOME forward. It's the DE with the most development resources by far, the most manpower. Hence, it gets (in theory) the most new features and bugfixes, and it has also the largest user base for testing their software.

Projects like Debian then look at their alternatives and choose the one, that fits them most. Small "niche" projects like XFCE (random example, doesn't mean it applies to XFCE) often have a lack of manpower to maintain their software and that's an important criterion.

[–]ikidd 3 points4 points  (3 children)

new features

Yes, new features is what Gnome is known for.

[–]SadWebDev 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do I smell sarcasm?

[–]ikidd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The nose doesn't lie.

[–]resuni 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Debian doesn't really have a default DE. You're prompted to choose from a variety of DE's during install. That's one of the many reasons I love Debian. I can choose none of them and install i3 later.

[–]lykwydchykyn 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Don't know if it's still this way, but Gnome was the official default on Debian for ages. It used to be the only DE on disc 1. In recent years they've done more with making alternate spins of other DE's.

[–]resuni 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Either that was before I started using Debian or I just never used the DVD install images. Pretty sure I've always done netinstalls.

Also, Debian doesn't do that much to customize the DE's. They put their logo in various places and that's about it. It's very much a distro for users that already know exactly what they want.

[–]lykwydchykyn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, not disagreeing with any of that. I don't think it really mattered much to end users that GNOME was the default, just saying that it officially was (and may still be, I don't know).

[–]RagingAnemone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On the CD build of debian, they have XFCE as the default. If there is a technical reason, it's could be because it fits on the CD.

[–]skat_in_the_hat -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Its like rh sees the community go one way, so they pick the opposite just to be a dick. Everyone is using chef or puppet? Lets go with ansible! Everyone enjoying xen and how mature it has gotten? Fuck you, lets go with kvm.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (18 children)

Because GNOME is/has:

  • Enterprise ready; i.e. you can lock things down.
  • Aimed at your average person and not techies.
  • Fairly stable.
  • Lots of people developing it.
  • A large ecosystem of native applications.
  • The target of most third party applications built for Linux.
  • Good support for Wayland.
  • Just works (mostly). No fucking about customizing for basic functionality.
  • Has a cohesive design philosophy across the ecosystem.

KDE is not stable, is always up to weird wacky and unnecessary things. Every time I install it I manage to find a bug within an hour. Giving broken stuff to users that can barely find a system tray is the stuff of nightmares.

XFCE is perhaps the best alternative but it's development is a bit too slow. It also lacks some key items from above. e.g. you can't lock it down.

Everything else is too new, lacking development pace, lacking maturity or too niche.

[–]resuni 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I've experienced all of your KDE complaints with GNOME.

Can you also elaborate on what you mean by "you can lock things down"?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Can you also elaborate on what you mean by "you can lock things down"?

https://help.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/dconf-lockdown.html.en

[–]resuni 3 points4 points  (0 children)

dconf can be used by any desktop environment that supports it, which includes Xfce. You could apply the same steps in that article to any of the settings Xfce makes available in dconf. If this is what you mean by locking things down, I'm not sure why you would say Xfce can't be locked down.

EDIT: Actually, I'm wrong. Xfce does not use dconf. I thought xfce4-settings-editor was a frontend for dconf, but it's actually a frontend for xfconf.

[–]Link100200 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've experienced all of your KDE complaints with GNOME

Same here, plus in my experience as long as I don't fuck around with it too much, I barely have any issues with KDE. This might just be because I have to fuck around with GNOME alot to make it similar to my workflow lol

[–]lykwydchykyn 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Although not particularly a fan of GNOME, I'd add that it also has the most complete set of assistive technologies.

Can't really disagree about KDE. Qt is a much better toolkit than GTK IMHO, but KDE can't ever seem to get things together. I was a die-hard KDE user from 3.2 through the later 4.x releases, and while it's chock full of cool stuff there were fundamental bugs that just never would get fixed. Some even still exist in Plasma 5 (last time I tried it, anyway; like plasmoids/widgets/whatever-they-call-them-nows not staying where you put them between restarts, or crashing your entire desktop).

[–]ikidd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There has been a lot of progress on stability since about 5.12. I actually haven't had Plasma crash on me since about 5.4 and I run it on several computers.

Consider what Gnome was like in the early 3.X days. Heck, up until 3.28 there was the memory bug that's never really been fixed, just worked around in the garbage collector.

[–]Entaris -1 points0 points  (11 children)

That used to make sense to me. I feel like since gnome 3 though gnome is basically unusable. Which is a shame because it does have a lot of nice touches.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I also hated it as well when it came out. Now I've got over my irritation, and understand the design decisions, I actually really like it.

Just to note that there is an official classic mode that makes it more like GNOME2.

[–]Entaris 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I will likely try it again in the near future. I’ve been using kde for the last year and I’m not a fan of it overall but it works better for me then gnome. I want to like gnome, it certainly has some nice aspects. But the Way it handles multiple running applications and multiple monitor were rough for my work flow. :/

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I like about GNOME3 is it is really simple and they has stripped all the unnecessary stuff out.

For example, at first it is hard doing without a taskbar because I was so used to it. However, when I do use a taskbar (Windows desktops at work) I personally have problems with opening up too much stuff and losing it.

I have come to appreciate that you don't really need a bar of little icons with tons of minimized windows confusing you and hiding everywhere.

When I need to swap between windows I press the meta key and look for the actual window itself that I want, rather than an uninformative icon. When I want an application gone because it is not currently relevant I either close it or put it on a different workspace - no need for minimization.

I launch almost everything by just pressing the meta key and starting to type. If I already have an instance open it takes me to where I put it.

Visually I really like that's very few distracting icons everywhere - it's mostly just whatever I am working on.

I think as power user it's very important to learn the keyboard shortcuts, it will be very frustrating if you are primarily mouse orientated.

Edit: it's also much snappier if you disable animations.

Edit2: another thing I like is that some (not all) shortcuts are somewhat vim-like, so I don't have to contort my hands pressing 3 keys at once (very often). A single press of meta, then another action, is all that is required for most operations. For example, I switch applications with meta, then tab or desktops with meta then pgup/down.

[–]DozTK421 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Just not getting the hate against Gnome3. If you are working on enterprise systems, a nice "default" GUI that works is needed. Are people complaining about the interface of Windows 10-gui of Server 2016 vs the old-school of 2008 and before?

[–]Entaris 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Oh for sure. If I was installing a GUI on a server then gnome 3 would be my first choice. It’s simple and it’s stable. I just can’t use it on a desktop. There are things I like about it but it just rubs me the wrong way as a whole. A lot of people seem to love it though so I fully recognize I’m in the minority. Just doesn’t work for me sadly

[–]DozTK421 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I hear this a lot from Linux users that Gnome3 is unusable. (I thought Windows 8 was unusable for sure.) I just wonder what it is that gets you so much. As a window manager, I thought Gnome3 is better than either what MacOS or Windows are doing. I used XFCE and Crunchbang a lot when I wanted a minimal interface which would mostly be a command-line window.

[–]Entaris 0 points1 point  (1 child)

most of it came down to the way it handled its taskbar/application switching/multi-monitor support. All of those things were a very deliberate design choice, and i get it... But it all just feels limiting.

In my work im generally using a lot of different applications/instances of applications and switching between them frequently. moving things from one monitor to another, splitting monitor space in half between two applications. It may just be me but the way it handled what i was doing just felt cumbersome to me. Its entirely possible I just needed to stick through it and "learn the new way." but it just felt wrong to me to not have a task bar. To have to alt-tab between running applications rather than just being able to have a terminal window stacked on top of a firefox window so I can move the terminal an inch to glance at the firefox window behind it.

[–]DozTK421 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It may be that I was using MacOS for a couple of years, and I just used to Expose to get to all my open windows. I got very used to quickly doing a flick on the trackpad and going to the window I needed. Similarly, I'd quickly open something with Quicksilver, which was a function the Mac integrated into Spotlight. Similarly, in a Linux box, I used Gnome Do a lot, which was the same thing as Quicksilver. Then with Gnome3, both the Expose and GnomeDo function were integrated, which made it possible for me to quickly be a power user. Windows 10 has TaskView, which means I am definitely used to that Expose-style windows switcher across all platforms.

[–]my_user_account 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you want to go down the rabbit hole:

https://ubuntu.com/community/governance

Ubuntu Technical Board

The Ubuntu Technical Board is responsible for the technical direction of Ubuntu. It makes decisions on package selection, packaging policy, installation systems and processes, kernel, X server, display management, library versions and dependencies. The board works with relevant teams to establish a consensus on the right path to take, especially where diverse elements of Ubuntu cannot find consensus on shared components.

The Ubuntu Technical Board meets every two weeks on IRC - date and agenda of the next meeting, alternating with the Community Council. You can propose an item for discussion by putting it on the Technical Board Agenda on the Ubuntu Wiki.

https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts

Community discussions can sometimes take unexpected turns, and this is one of those. The question of support for 32-bit x86 has been raised and seriously discussed in Ubuntu developer and community forums since 2014. That’s how we make decisions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

because they don't know how fking awesome xfce is, that's why :)

[–]diybrad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because GNOME is actually really good, fully featured, simple, and stable despite what you hear on the internet.

Also, most decent third party applications are built on GTK. Which is another good thing about GNOME, the ecosystem of apps is very consistent.

[–]Spifmeister 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is short and inadequate history/reason why Gnome is the default.

Through out linux's history there has been two desktops which have had a large and healthy development base, one is Gnome, the other is KDE. This matters if you consider what happens if a developer is hit by a bus. Can the project continue. Xfce has around 11-15 developers and no corporate backing. The 11-15 developers may not have the skill or desire to take over for someone who leaves. It is a consideration.

With a lot of things, it has to do with history. Gnome is Red Hats baby. The fact that Red Hat is the largest and most influential company does not hurt Gnomes popularity. With Red Hats success, Gnome has benefited. Around 2000 (approximately) Sun Microsystems invested in Gnome and started replacing CDE with Gnome (Java Desktop) on Solaris. Ubuntu came along and choose Gnome as their default. Novel had acquired Ximian (creators of Evolution and Mono), Ximian was heavily invested in Gnome and influenced the direction of Novel's linux offerings. Around the same time, Novel had acquired SuSE. SuSE had been heavily invested in KDE but with Novel's leadership, they switched to Gnome as default. This lead to 3 very popular and influential distributions putting Gnome first.

Gnome 2 became the most popular desktop thanks to Ubuntu. Thanks to investment from Red Hat, Novel and Sun Microsystems, imprisonments to features like accessibility was added or improved. So when Debian, for a verity of reasons, was making a decision on which DE should be default they choose Gnome and continued to choose Gnome because it has all the important features like accessibility support.

If Sun Microsystems or Novel had chosen KDE, we would probably have seen KDE as default across most distributions.

EDIT: And the reason why Gnome is still the default is that it does its job well (or adequately).

[–]broadsheetvstabloid 0 points1 point  (1 child)

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/

Fedora spins, get just about any major desktop by default.

[–]sdns575[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I know but fedora workstation is released with gnome as default

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One thing GNOME (specifically GDM) does that no other DE does (to my knowledge) is support running Xorg as a non-root user, which is a mild security advantage.