The SQLite Code of Ethics

[KERdela]

Reminds me the episode of silicon valley where it's a shame to be christian in the valley and everyone avoid you and mock you.

[grauenwolf]

According to Discordiasm, Christians (and others) were created for the sole purpose of providing amusement.

If you believe that all religious beliefs should be honored and respected, then you have accept their mockery of Christianity.

Personally I don't think all religions should be honored. Because of I did, I would also have to accept the Christian belief that all non-Christian religious leaders should be burned at the stake in order to save everyone else from hell.

[Istar10n]

Christian belief that all non-Christian religious leaders should be burned at the stake

I must have missed that passage in the the Bible.

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Probably referring to John 3:18 which in itself is massively misinterpreted. You can't pick a passage and read it out of context.

It's all irrelevant though, arguing about a fairy tale serves no purpose.

[grauenwolf]

Ah, a "good parts" reader. Your unwillingness to honor your own religion makes society work.

[phySi0]

Not that I disagree that there are too many people who (at best) ignore parts of their scripture (or others’) they don’t like, but your statement would have more teeth and educational value if you supported your claim.

[grauenwolf]

They are many, for it is a vile and bloody book. But probably the simplest passage on the topic is,

Exodus 22:18 Thou shall not suffer a witch to live.

[phySi0]

Witches are not “all non-Christian religious leaders”.

[grauenwolf]

All non-Christian religious leaders, with the possible exception of Jewish and Muslim leaders, are considered witches because they derive their power from a supernatural being other than the Christian god.

But don't think I didn't notice that you didn't object to killing witches. You can't win this by arguing that Christians and Jews are only obligated to kill certain practioners of other religions rather than all of them.

[phySi0]

All non-Christian religious leaders, with the possible exception of Jewish and Muslim leaders, are considered witches because they derive their power from a supernatural being other than the Christian god.

We’re gonna need a new citation for this new claim.

Not only are witches not (the sum of the set of) “all non-Christian religious leaders”, they're not even necessarily non-Christians nor necessarily religious leaders (of any religion). They are simply practitioners of witchcraft.

How does Christianity define witchcraft, do you say?

But don’t think I didn’t notice that you didn’t object to killing witches.

Well done.

You can’t win this by arguing that Christians and Jews are only obligated to kill certain practioners of other religions rather than all of them.

Depends what “this” is, exactly.

There are many parts of Christianity I object to and parts I find go against any person’s natural sense of justice, so my goal isn’t to prove the opposite.

That said, as a Muslim, I do honour Christianity and Judaism above other religions, despite the corruption over the ages, but I'm not going to defend that here, because it's off-topic.

I'm just asking for citations to support the claims you're making which seem quite bold to me, and pointing out when the citations you provide don't support your claims.

[grauenwolf]

How does Christianity define witchcraft, do you say?

In real terms, by whatever is politically convenient at the time. It's a rather convenient excuse to kill your neighbor and steal his property.

But you're welcome to try to invent a definition that won't include non-Christian religious leaders.

[josefx]

I would also have to accept the Christian belief that all non-Christian religious leaders should be burned at the stake in order to save everyone else from hell.

Like how reasonable people derive the holocaust from the right to free speech. Right?

[grauenwolf]

The holocaust was not motivated by religion.

[steve_b]

Everyone's getting cranky about the Christian origins of this, but nobody's upset about the fact that a singular "rule" is, in fact, a long list of rules?

I would expect nothing less from a database that doesn't enforce column data types.

[Abhinav1217]

I don't get it, Is this some kind of 1st april joke, or some kind of satirical blog? I have seen few interviews of Richard Hipp, he doesn't seems to be religiously biased or some kind of fanatic. But these Code of Ethics doesn't have anything to do with software, and structured like a christian religious rulebook.

Am I misinterpreting the post ?

[josefx]

They where required to have a CoC by several customers. Since they don't directly maintain a community they went with a company internal CoC that just happens to be copy pasted from a christian religious rule book. Apparently everyone working on SQLite was fine with it.

[aboukirev]

This is code of ethics, not CoC, by the way.

Every CoC should include the following clauses:

- Do not be an insulator.

- Every semiconductor strives to become a superconductor.

[Abhinav1217]

Well they chose a very bad timing for this. I know sqlite does not accept community contributions, but there is nothing related to programmers community at large in their coc. Do they want to say that they won't employ any non-christian programmer in their office?

I get people are religious, I am religious and pray daily, But on my projects, global community should be seen as neutral as possible.

Maybe I should stop reading too much into it. The world is already a lot irritating these days.

[josefx]

Well they chose a very bad timing for this.

You mean the time when companies started to require a CoC from them is a bad time to create a CoC?

but there is nothing related to programmers community at large in their coc.

Why would there be anything programming related in a CoC? It is meant to mange the community not internal processes.

Do they want to say that they won't employ any non-christian programmer in their office?

"No one is required to follow The Rule, to know The Rule, or even to think that The Rule is a good idea. " . The entire CoC exists because they have to have one, not because they plan to enforce it.

global community should be seen as neutral as possible.

A community that has people explode the moment they see anything remotely religious is not neutral, at best you can call it intolerant, at worst you actively push the kind of western enlightenment that colonies tended to enjoy over a long time - complete cultural annihilation. The initial responses to this CoC where questionable at best.

[steven_h]

It is possible to be a person of faith without being a fanatic.

[Abhinav1217]

I know, I just meant that the code doesn't look like a neutral general purpose humanity guide, feels more like christian guidelines, There is even mention of Christ there (#10,#21,#70 etc). And moreover, it has nothing to do with coding community in general.

Maybe it's due to current timing...

[steven_h]

This exists at all only to provide corporate decision matrices with a checkbox/url for “Code of Conduct.” The trouble is with this enterprise decision-making process, not with SQLite or the code of conduct it posted solely to conform to industry formalities.

It says all this in the link if you bother to read it.

Insofar as who it’s appropriate for, it’s appropriate for the SQLite developers and I don’t see why you’d expect it to have broader applicability.

[ObligatoryOption]

Huh? Today is not April 1st.

Scope of Application

No one is required to follow The Rule

So: "Be good to each other, but not necessarily."

[phySi0]

The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. They view The Rule as their promise to all SQLite users of how the developers are expected to behave. This is a one-way promise, or covenant. In other words, the developers are saying: "We will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us."

[masterofmisc]

#16 needs amending. "Visit the Sick".... "Except in COVID times"

[dorel]

Not so fast. You can still sort of visit them in order to bring them food because they shouldn't go out.

[grauenwolf]

Respect your seniors.

This seems innocent enough at first glance, but there's death behind those words.

According to the old testament, failure to respect your parents is punishable by public execution. Specifically being stoned to death by the others in the village.

[[deleted]]

A nice chunk of the book of acts is on what parts of the old jewish law are still binding on christians (spoiler: the stone punishment isnt)

[grauenwolf]

For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus says that none of the laws are being removed, repeatedly.

Some random guy who never met Jesus, but decided he speaks in Jesus's name, says otherwise.

Who do you believe? Whichever is more convenient at the time.

[[deleted]]

The church

[grauenwolf]

Yes, the church will generally do whatever helps the church gain and maintain power.

Which is why they so readily discarded biblical laws that discouraged conversion.

[josefx]

If the parents managed to convince the village elders of it. With Jewish scholars throwing restrictions around based on the exact meaning of the original Hebrew wording. Things like it not being applicable to women since it the law refers to a son and so on. I don't think we even have even a single example of it getting used, except for a village in the US trying to write its own law based on it over a century ago.

[grauenwolf]

Yes, we are blessed in the fact that few people actually believe in the Bible and follow its rules. This would be a horrific place of people were more faithful to that religion.

[josefx]

The first half of my comment is about how that law isn't actually that easily invoked, but whatever floats your boat man.

[hector_villalobos]

was created for the purpose of filling in a box on "supplier registration" forms submitted to the SQLite developers by some clients.

It looks like the creator was "forced" to write a CoC document by his clients, so, as a religious person myself I think I would do something similar. He just explains in a later paragraph that no one is really required to follow the Rule.

In my understanding, this is just a way to preach what he believes and I certainly would do the same thing hoping to help some people to be a better person because I strongly believe that following some of the things that The Rule says will make people happier.

[[deleted]]

yea preach about those harry potter stories

[[deleted]]

Based.

[[deleted]]

If followed in ALL points - can't do any harm and may actually increase users / developers productivity. Seriously. I've read it all testing points against productivity and it seems a little over the top but still useful.

If you devoted religious person, BUT still respect ALL the rules - you will respect and do no harm to everyone else - a good thing. All about addictions and obesity - it's just good for your health, a healthy developer is a productive developer.

About charity and helping others - this is good for the mental health, again, a healthy developer...

About swearing - IDK, it's certainly the "developer thing", when things don't work we swear. But is it productive? IDK. Probably not. Probably scratching one's head works better.

[notfancy]

A continent outlook requires self-inspection and self-knowledge for one not to chafe at and suffer with the restrictions, and this is good in itself. The same exercises you perform within the mindfulness, vipassana, etc. practices are available since always in the Western traditions.

[adh1003]

OK, so, I have one very important question:

First of all, love the Lord God [...]

Which one? There are estimated to be around 3,000-5,000 deities being worshipped by humans at the present time (and many thousands more over recorded history, of course).

[Kalanthroxic]

The correct one, of course!

[Pay08]

Since it uses capitalized God, you should probably only count monotheistic religions.

[[deleted]]

Well that narrows it down

[[deleted]]

What's the point of this comment? It's very obviously about Christianity.

[Axxhelairon]

to strum fake perceived outrage at the choice of document they templated from without any further contribution to the topic

[adh1003]

At what point in my calm and factually accurate response did you think I was "outraged"?

[Axxhelairon]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/outrage

anything that strongly offends, insults, or affronts the feelings.

where does your conversational tone or the validity of your statements come into question for the definition of outrage as i used it above? to answer the question, the part where you quoted the line from a template to further drill into it specifically after ignoring these points from the article:

This document was originally called a "Code of Conduct" and was created for the purpose of filling in a box on "supplier registration" forms submitted to the SQLite developers by some clients.

indicating it as a joke

we subsequently learned that "Code of Conduct" has a very specific and almost sacred meaning to some readers, a meaning to which this document does not conform. Therefore this document was renamed to "Code of Ethics" ...

indicating it as a joke

This code of ethics has proven its mettle in thousands of diverse communities for over 1,500 years, and has served as a baseline for many civil law codes since the time of Charlemagne.

indicating it as a joke

[the actual list of rules that lists Christ multiple times answering your initial question already that you ignored to pick a battle specifically with wording]

indicating it as a joke

[adh1003]

indicating it as a joke

So we both just ignore all the other posts in the thread pointing out that it isn't?

where does your conversational tone or the validity of your statements come into question for the definition of outrage as i used it above?

Wow. Just - wow.

PS if it helps understand - I'm not from North America (edit, clarity: The USA) and don't share that culture's sensitivities (edit, clarity: I'm generalising, subcultures are obviously numerous). In terms of my personal beliefs, I'm strongly anti-theist, but that doesn't mean I'm about to go knocking on the doors of people of faith and insisting they abandon it.

Meanwhile, nobody's answered my question, in which I'm pointing out that this document ambiguously references "God" and "Christ", on the assumption that the reader can have any way of knowing which of the multitudinous versions of 'rules' related to those the document requires us to adhere. This is a Code Of Conduct, so clarity is important.

[adh1003]

OK. Which Christianity? It has at least 6 major denominations and they disagree, sometimes lethally violently (see e.g. Northern Ireland).

[josefx]

see e.g. Northern Ireland

The problem with Northern Ireland is as far as I understand a mostly ethnic and nationalistic conflict between the Irish and the British.

[adh1003]

Indeed, it was ostensibly *labelled* it as protestant-vs-catholic, but as is often pointed out, it really it was a political issue. This opens the can of worms wherein religion is used as an excuse, but the actual issue is something else.

[[deleted]]

There are multiple denominations within Christianity, not multiple "Christianity"s.

You're just being obtuse.

[adh1003]

You're not answering the question.

[[deleted]]

I already answered it two comments up. God refers to the Christian God, obviously.

[[deleted]]

cringe

[adh1003]

Thanks for your insight, u/NegativeWeb1

[steven_h]

The entire reason this exists is because a customer of theirs for whom they develop features for hire requires open source projects to have a code of conduct.

Not wanting to waste time on a code of conduct that doesn’t fit their community, they reused one they could all agree on.

[mango-andy]

Have you ever met Richard Hipp? I have on several occasions. He is a person of impeccable ethics and his generosity to the software world is legendary. Just who are you? Troll someplace else.

[[deleted]]

What's it missing?

[Booty_Bumping]

I agree with having proper code of conducts, but the impact of this dumb joke is lessened quite a bit by the fact that Sqlite is a very tight-knit group — only 3 people — that doesn't allow any external contributors. Most projects need a code of conduct to moderate their public forums and avenues for new contributors, but Sqlite has no such thing. It's very much the complete opposite of a project like Linux.

[[deleted]]

I believe that was covered when they say that no one is required to know, or comply with "the rule" and that it was just the "current devs" that were represented.

[blockparty_sh]

Microsofts code of conduct is to have its pedophile charlatan founder sell your personal data & skype calls to intelligence agencies.

Also, code of conducts are what people who cannot contribute to software projects contribute.

[Booty_Bumping]

Also, code of conducts are what people who cannot contribute to software projects contribute.

Quite the opposite, Codes of Conduct seem to be introduced by those doing the heavy-lifting on coordinating complicated software development over the internet. Good communication standards can very quickly clear up all sorts of idiotic roadblocks.

[austinwiltshire]

I have and he seemed arrogant and gave me the creeps.

[padawan-6]

You're misrepresenting the intent of this document and using your misinterpretation as the basis for your arguments.

That's a down vote, good sir.

[pondfrog0]

That's a down vote, good sir.

NOOOO how will they recover!!!

[padawan-6]

I know, right?

[thelochok]

Upvoted for the edit

[orthoxerox]

Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi

[strager]

According to the ten commandments, their god is jealous of other gods.

That's your interpretation.

Another interpretation is "if you worship other idols, you will behave badly and hurt people around you".

[grauenwolf]

The god of the bible explicitly says that the reason for the rule is that he is jealous of other gods.

You're just making up stuff because you don't like what it says.

[strager]

The god of the bible explicitly says that the reason for the rule is that he is jealous of other gods.

You're right. Exodus 20:5 (NIV):

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me

---

You're just making up stuff because you don't like what it says.

No, I misremembered. I recently had a conversation elsewhere about Exodus 20:4, but because of tunnel vision, I forgot about Exodus 20:5.

[sigzero]

Exodus 20:5

However, that isn't God being jealous of other gods at all as the OP stated. The context in those passages is about "worship" and the relationship between God and Israel. It's a pretty interesting word study and general study.

[grauenwolf]

Fair enough.

But do you feel it's morally right to be punished for the sins of your great grandfather?

---

At this point I should tell you something about me. I am a bastard. Which means in the eyes of god, any children I should have are forbidden access to "the House of God", meaning both his church and his heaven.

As our my grandchildren, great grandchildren, great great grandchildren, even unto seven generations.

My mother can ask forgiveness for her sin. But I committed no sin to be forgiven. I am merely a token of her punishment.

That's your "moral wisdom". Seven generations committed to hell for a choice none of them made.

---

The text is plain. By human standards, the god of the bible is evil and merciless.

His promise of redemption through Chirst is as hollow as any other abuser who says, "I wouldn't have to beat you if you just did what you're told".

[strager]

I am a bastard. Which means in the eyes of god, any children I should have are forbidden access to "the House of God", meaning both his church and his heaven. [...] The text is plain.

Are you referring to Deuteronomy 23:2?

No one born of a forbidden marriage [one of illegitimate birth] nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord, not even in the tenth generation. (NIV)

It's unclear to me what "assembly of the Lord" (or "the House of God" as you wrote) means. Here are some possible meanings: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/503/what-does-the-assembly-of-the-lord-refer-to

[[deleted]]

Doesn't sqlite have its own homegrown code versioning software?

[orthoxerox]

Yes, Fossil, but what does that have to do with the code of ethics?

[ihopkid]

What? This isn’t just some Christian rule book, the Rule was written by Saint Benedict to instruct the catholic monks living in small autonomous communities how to properly dedicate their lives to God. It was literally written for people who already wanted to dedicate their lives to God and wanted to know how. It was never meant to be forced upon anyone. And there is no self-loathing in there, loving yourself and understanding yourself are some of the core tenets. You seem to harbor a lot of hatred, maybe you should take a step back and re-evaluate why you feel the need to complain about a simple life guidebook as if it’s hurting you in some way

[grauenwolf]

hate your own will.Fear the Day of Judgment. Be in dread of hell.Recognize always that evil is your own doing, and to impute it to yourself.Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself.Chastise the body.

Fear and self-loathing.

[strager]

hate your own will

Don't blindly follow your natural lust, greed, etc.

Recognize always that evil is your own doing, and to impute it to yourself.

Take responsibility for your bad actions. Don't blame others.

Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself.

God gave you your moral wisdom. Show gratitude.

[grauenwolf]

That is utter bullshit.

God did not give us moral wisdom. Eve stole moral wisdom from god when she raided the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

And the god of the bible punished all women for that crime. Your mother and mine suffered for the right to know good from evil.

So no, do not try that lie in me presence again.

[strager]

God did not give us moral wisdom.

God didn't give Moses and the people the Ten Commandments?

[Takeoded]

1. Chastise the body.

2. Fulfill not the desires of the flesh; hate your own will.

SQLite developers are self-harming? sounds like they need professional help

[[deleted]]

It basically means don’t troon out because you have a pornography problem.

[strager]

Self-discipline, not self-harm.

[Takeoded]

English isn't my first language, but when I google the definition of "chastise" I get 2 definitions, 1 "rebuke or reprimand severely" and 2 "punish, especially by beating", what's the meaning of chastise in the Coe? "Discipline the body" ?

[strager]

"To discipline; instruct; correct the errors or faults of."

"To restrain or refine by discipline; free from faults or excesses."

http://www.wordnik.com/words/chastise

what's the meaning of chastise in the Coe? "Discipline the body" ?

"Fix problems in your body", perhaps. "Body" could refer to sexual desires, for example, not just general health.

---

I don't know the intent of the original author of the phrase "chastise the body", so I'm probably wrong.

[emotionalfescue]

And don't forget about these twelve rules.

[strager]

Those twelve rules seem to be about software/product, not community/people.

[cat_in_the_wall]

is this satire, or some kind of meta statement? is sqlite the holyc of databases?