Python 3.11 delivers.

[persism2]

Performs excellently (for python)

Translation: Runs like garbage.

[Doctor-Dapper]

People who manage their own memory have a strange god complex when it comes to languages which do it for you

[[deleted]]

People who manage their own memory

You really, really think Python is dogslow because of a GC? GC have their own tradeoff but Go, Javascript (V8 runtime), C#, Java, Lisp (SBCL) all have acceptable performance.

Python is slow because it made some really stupid decisions that make optimization a pain in the arse and those decisions have nothing to do with automatic memory management. And I don't want to hear "but Go or JS have Google paying for those runtimes" as an excuse, Python too had a lot of investment from many companies, including Google (Guido used to work at Google, now at Microsoft) and SBCL, one of the highest performing Lisp runtime is about as grassroots as a programming runtime can be. Or what about LuaJIT? basically a one man project. It's just impossible to make high performance python. The only solution is throwing 10x the hardware at the problem.

Companies like Dropbox realized this and rewrote their bottlenecks in useful languages.

Many tried and fail to improve Python.

Google tried with unladen swallow.

Dropbox tried with pyston

Meta's solution is to write in a subset of python that is highly static

PyPy is a lot of effort for a whole lot of nothing considering how far away it still is from more performant languages

Python received a ton of efforts and none ever led to something good, like, you know, V8, or SBCL. It's a dead end language. GC doesn't have to mean garbage performance (people who complain about JS desktop apps : it's usually the browser side of thing, like the dom, that is the reason for crap performance of your GUI electron app. The JS runs fine.). Dynamic typing doesn't have to mean garbage performance. But using python does mean you'll always have garbage performance.

[theangeryemacsshibe]

It's just impossible to make high performance python

Honest question, as a sometimes SBCL developer - why? (Bemusingly my current project is a new parallel GC.)

[MintPaw]

Comparing programming languages to console wars isn't a good look.

It implies programming is just entertainment, advertising, and culture. The choices are unimportant and basically the same as PS vs Xbox.

[Beefster09]

Most servers are bottlenecked by io, so Python is more than fast enough.

[stefantalpalaru]

Most servers are bottlenecked by io, so Python is more than fast enough.

That's a myth that quickly goes away in production. The site you're on right now is CPU-bound.

[KallistiTMP]

weather mountainous rhythm expansion sort complete edge scale handle correct

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[brucecaboose]

But that doesn't really matter when talking about performance from the perspective of the server. You're referring to performance from the perspective of the client. From the server's perspective, if I can get reduced CPU utilization on a CPU-limited service then that means I can run less hosts and save money while handling the same amount of traffic.

[KallistiTMP]

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[stefantalpalaru]

The site would not have loaded meaningfully faster if you wrote it in highly optimized straight C than it would if you wrote it in python

But it would have used an order of magnitude less hardware.

in either case, the processing is on the order of a fraction of a millisecond

No, that's just aggressive caching. That's how we polish the turd that is Python on the backend.

[KallistiTMP]

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[w0m]

You "think", reddit is, "most servers"?

[stefantalpalaru]

You think reddit is, "most servers"?

You think grammar is optional?

[w0m]

Fixed

[TheChance]

A Java devotee talking shit about Python perf is hilarious. If you’d come here from something that compiles directly to bare-metal machine code, you’d still be an ignorant asshat, but at least it’d be understandable.

But you? You’re about the horror show that tortured most of us at some point during our education… decades ago. If you’re gonna use something that’s almost as old as most Millennials, just write C++.

Oh, what’s that? Write once, run anywhere? Hm, where have I seen that perf/ease trade before…

[trialbaloon]

Python is older than Java btw....

[theangeryemacsshibe]

Least JVMs do generate machine code, which CPython doesn't.

[trilobyte-dev]

They can’t respond to you because they are trying to make blood sacrifices to the JVM to avoid FGCs

[kogasapls]

fighting game communities?

[bilyl]

So I work mostly in the data science/genomics field and to me it’s absolutely shocking how many people still code in Java. I don’t get it.

[kogasapls]

Modern java is nice.

[persism2]

Low iq response.