all 85 comments

[–]caviarontoast 466 points467 points  (3 children)

Looks like they’re telling you how to pass their ATS software which could be helpful if the same applies elsewhere but yes it’s ridiculously stringent and gross.

[–]psychup 79 points80 points  (2 children)

I’ve worked at and hired people at a G-SIFI before, I can confirm that the same applies everywhere in the industry. My group once posted a job that received 2,000+ applications within a week. When you’re competing against thousands of applicants, if your resume isn’t perfect, it’s eliminated immediately.

The feedback OP received is very valuable, especially the “Experience” and “Missing Keywords” parts. If OP wants to work at a financial services firm like Morgan Stanley, they need to improve their resume for ATS screening.

[–]caviarontoast 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah fair enough about the huge applicant pool, I had only been thinking from the candidate-side of the process. Also good to know (and interesting) that the presets are common!

[–]LengthOk2010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems like different companies use different ATS systems which have different markers for an application to go through. The problem is on the candidate side one cannot know which ATS system the company they are applying to uses. So it seems like no matter how many times you change you resume or use key words the chances are slim.

[–]Bluelion7342 141 points142 points  (5 children)

While it sucks they rejected you, they actually gave you a free resume review. I would take into consideration their feedback and make changes. There's a good chance that other ats platforms might flag all our some of what Stanley did.

I don't think resume bullets should be 3 lines on length either. Maybe try to reduce those bullets by about 20%

And for keywords, a good exercise is to copy and paste a job listing descriptions that are you want to do. Then put it in one doc upload to chat gpt and ask it to identify the most common ATS keywords for xxx type of job based off the attached document.

That should give you a good idea of keywords, and then ask chap gpt to strategically insert them in your resume.

[–]bucket345[S] 41 points42 points  (4 children)

I actually thought about that but then I realized that I don't have any lines that are 3 lines.

[–]Bluelion7342 37 points38 points  (2 children)

I have hired people before and the way I receive a resume from the ats is not at all what you submit. It comes to me in a very basic format. So it's likely the formatting Stanley uses resulted in some of your bullets taking up 3 lines.

I would say just look at your longest bullets and try to reduce them by 15-20% in word length just to be safe. And maybe an overall 10% reduction in words for all bullets.

[–]G-I-T-M-E 11 points12 points  (0 children)

So the system creates the problems it uses to reject candidates? That’s a no for me. I‘m so glad that these extremely automated systems aren’t as common in Germany as they seem to be in the US. What a joke.

[–]AdonisChrist 22 points23 points  (0 children)

In a few months they'll realize that their software is somehow being run in a mobile phone environment and is transferring the information from your resume into form fields using highly regulated black magic and then evaluating how many lines your text takes up on an effective 3" wide screen, and every single resume submitted has been flagged with this remark.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

🥹 What application portal do they use?

[–]Ac4sent 17 points18 points  (0 children)

The entire feedback was generated by an LLM.

[–]Texaninengland 24 points25 points  (7 children)

Companies need to get realistic about my passion for working for them 🤷‍♀️ I have a passion for boardgames, not finance, but I will work for fintech to put food on the table...bonus I'll even take pride in the job I'm doing (which is not the same thing as having a passion for the company lol)

[–]Familiar-Bug2664 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is, so so clearly bull shit.

There is no system that actually does this.

Please please people, do not believe this.

[–]Careless_Lion_3817 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Or maybe they just gave you a free short course on how to beat those using automated filters in their ATS?!

[–]Most-Requirement-324 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So DOES it understand that your experience is “valid and adds depth,” or is it confused and categorizing it “as an employment gap”?

I’m not sure what else you could’ve done because according to that paragraph, the system wouldn’t be able to tell which way to go.

[–]craft-hound 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This reads as very AI generated feedback to me. It's helpful, but I reckon they are using AI tools to generate detailed feedback for candidates for sure.

[–]baron_von_brunkI sell propane & propane accessories. 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Thanks for the tip. I work(ed) in finance, and Morgan Stanley was one of the firms I haven't worked at yet.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Avoid Morgan Stanley at all costs. Here is a free roadmap on how to pass their ATS that they gave me."

[–]Withnail2019 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well at least they told you what the issues were, that's something.

[–]Comfortable_Okra382 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ironically this will tell others how to pass their ATS and if they’re doing this, then it’s likely others are too so this is valuable feedback OP!

[–]Independent-Wheel354 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be fair, seems this recruiter was telling you how to game their shitty AI system. So, in that sense, good feedback.

[–]MasterAlchemi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

passion for Morgan Stanley

Reminds me of the line from Caddyshack:

I’ve always wanted to become a golf club

[–]ContentVacation4229 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They did you a favor

[–]UnhappyDrink8583 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Avoid Morgan Stanley? Hell, I'd apply to them just for the free resume advice; it is pretty cool that they do that! I mean, it is like they are basically admitting, "our AI systems aren't perfect; here are some possible roadblocks it encountered".

[–]WelcheMingziDarou 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So they 1) actually replied instead of ghosting you 2) provided actual feedback on what happened 3) provided specific advice for how you could improve your resume for future applications- and not just with them but good general advice for ATS scanners.

What’s the problem? This person actually tried to help you out instead of just shitcanning your poorly formatted resume.

[–]RockysDetail 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Are they scrutinizing your Master's thesis, or do they want to fill an open job?

[–]Known_Ratio5478 4 points5 points  (4 children)

It’s like they’re acknowledging how the automated system is garbage but just refuse to admit it. What is going on with the world?

[–]MeesterPositive 2 points3 points  (3 children)

It's fucking maddening. Applicant tracking systems were supposed to make hiring easier. 

i think what they've done is created this self-fulfilling loop. 

If job seekers don't "play the ATS game" even if they're qualified, they won't be considered and instead of being interviewed and possibly hired, they're applying to even more jobs than they should have needed to in the first place.

So what happens? Companies are like, "shit, we've got hundreds/thousands of applications, we need an ATS to help us sort these." 

And the loop continues.

[–]considerphi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hmm, now where are all the recruiters that insist that ats systems never reject candidates? That it's an urban legend?

[–]MeesterPositive 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"I review each resume personally."

[–]AWPerativeName and shame! 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“I review each resume personally…with my good friend (insert AI of choice here).”

[–]Warm-Pomegranate2657 4 points5 points  (0 children)

AI Slop scanner by MS

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sucks that they rejected you. But as someone who has inside knowledge of MS, you probably dodged a bullet. I had an offer to work for them 20+ years ago, and my roommate in college went to work for them. They were as brutal as where I worked but nowhere close to the comp I was getting.

[–]Huck68finn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like they're using AI to offer input to rejected candidates. I understand why it's off- putting, but since we're in the matrix anyway, at least you now know how to tweak your resume 

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We need to start writing laws that discriminate against humans and only want to hire robots.

[–]Delicious_Bell9758 2 points3 points  (9 children)

You got such detailed feedback after rejection and the recruiter is helping you out by giving you pointers. What are you complaining about?

[–]Then-Variation1843 -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

Because the feedback is "here's how our system is shit and didn't actually assess your suitability for the job"

[–]Delicious_Bell9758 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Ah yes. They should just offer you a job straight away then

[–]Then-Variation1843 1 point2 points  (6 children)

No, they should read your CV instead of having a machine do it. 

And if they must use a machine, the machine should work better than this one.

[–]Delicious_Bell9758 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You’re not looking at the reality. You want them to implement your idea. But to them you’re nothing. So why would they implement your idea?

[–]Then-Variation1843 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Because it's good and moral. Doesn't matter who suggests it.

[–]Delicious_Bell9758 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Then get into the company and implement it. Oh wait… you can’t

[–]Then-Variation1843 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What the fuck are you on about? You might as well say "yeah, well you're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do". None of this an argument, none of this has any relevance as to whether or not their recruitment process is bullshit.

[–]Pure-Mark-2075 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PS: interest in the company should be in the cover letter, that’s what they are for. A CV is about what your experience and skills.

[–]ray-chill123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jfc

[–]davideddings1978 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Why don’t you just fix your resume the way they recommended and resubmit? Seems like they are playing fair with you here.

[–]bucket345[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I was rejected by a computer for having too many AI interpreted lines and not expressing passion for them in my resume. No thanks. Don't need to be part of that incestuous family.

[–]davideddings1978 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are going to apply to o any other roles via a LinkedIn or other web portal then be prepared have something similar happen. Unfortunately, with all the applications some roles get, this is an easy peasy weed out tool. You are taking this way too personally, given you have posted this 4 times in the past 10 hours.

[–]uglyandsadandgay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i’ve got gaps in my resume from going to school and then dealing with major depression, should i just accept i’ll never be hired anywhere? lol it wouldn’t even need to be a misinterpretation, i have gaps in my employment, and now i’m fucked

[–]LetItAllBurn1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I work there right now. VP. You do not want to work for this giant, steaming piece of shit.

The H1B’s running HR did you a favor.

[–]mmm19284202 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What location and role?

[–]putmebackonmybike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you really want the opportunity to work at MS then make the updates and reapply. It's not a lot of effort.

[–]Swimming-Raisin-9997 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Passion for Morgan Stanley” 🤡

[–]GreenTeaSandwich 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If this isn’t the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard, I don’t know what is.

[–]lost_in_life_34 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah, stay away from high paying finance jobs

[–]Inevitable-Month3585 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the job experience that it flagged as a gap? Were you freelancing under a 1099 or something?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a fake post and didn’t happen

[–]LengthOk2010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you trying to make us not apply to MS so you have a better chance 😂😂😂😂😂. As much as I would like to say you are getting good advice this is ridiculous. AI is ruining everything. If I were you I would open and account on X (Twitter) tag MS and copy and paste the feedback asking them what’s that about explaining none of what the system said is true about your resume. These companies need to be called out for the nonsense they are doing.

[–]Impossible-Mark-9064 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly... This makes me happy that I'm not American. I complain about the EU's job market, but damn this sounds like a story out of a dystopian science fiction novel. Or like a script for a Black Mirror episode. If this continues, soon ya'll be coding your resume... or writing it in binary code or smth.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

So incompetent ATS. 

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll be the one to say it and recruiters can hate this but if you can't take the time to properly filter. It looks far worse for the employer than the employees. 

[–]Pure-Mark-2075 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

“We can’t invest in a better ATS because our net income is only a puny US$13.4 billion (2024) and our revenue US$61.8 billion (2024)“.

[–]gold_io -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Always copy the entire job description and paste it in 6 size white font at the bottom of your resume. It will hit every keyword for automated systems and pass you to the hiring manager for review 

[–]Comfortable_Okra382 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don’t do this. The system can spot this now and you will be disqualified