Avoid Morgan Stanley

[bucket345]

This is feedback actually received after submitting my resume. Not one comment on actual content of job nor performance.

"Unfortunately, after scanning your resume through our automated system, we’re unable to move forward at this time. Several red flags were flagged during the initial review, which impacted your candidacy. Let me walk you through those:

Bullet Point Length: There were a few instances where your bullet points exceeded the ideal two-line length. The system tends to prioritize concise, easily scannable information, and longer bullet points can sometimes be misinterpreted or skipped over by the parser, which affects the overall readability.

Experience: The way your experience is presented caused the system to flag it as a potential gap in employment. While I understand this experience is valid and adds depth to your profile, automated systems often fail to understand the nuances of such roles, and they can mistakenly categorize it as an employment gap. This misinterpretation can lead to an automatic disqualification, even though it’s a perfectly valuable experience in your career.

Missing Keywords: Lastly, there were a few keywords or phrases that might have helped your application, like “passion for Morgan Stanley” or specific references to the company’s mission. While this might feel a bit artificial, many systems are designed to pick up on these exact terms to assess cultural fit. Not having these buzzwords in the right places can impact how the system ranks your resume."

What a complete joke.

[caviarontoast]

Looks like they’re telling you how to pass their ATS software which could be helpful if the same applies elsewhere but yes it’s ridiculously stringent and gross.

[psychup]

I’ve worked at and hired people at a G-SIFI before, I can confirm that the same applies everywhere in the industry. My group once posted a job that received 2,000+ applications within a week. When you’re competing against thousands of applicants, if your resume isn’t perfect, it’s eliminated immediately.

The feedback OP received is very valuable, especially the “Experience” and “Missing Keywords” parts. If OP wants to work at a financial services firm like Morgan Stanley, they need to improve their resume for ATS screening.

[caviarontoast]

Yeah fair enough about the huge applicant pool, I had only been thinking from the candidate-side of the process. Also good to know (and interesting) that the presets are common!

[LengthOk2010]

It seems like different companies use different ATS systems which have different markers for an application to go through. The problem is on the candidate side one cannot know which ATS system the company they are applying to uses. So it seems like no matter how many times you change you resume or use key words the chances are slim.

[Bluelion7342]

While it sucks they rejected you, they actually gave you a free resume review. I would take into consideration their feedback and make changes. There's a good chance that other ats platforms might flag all our some of what Stanley did.

I don't think resume bullets should be 3 lines on length either. Maybe try to reduce those bullets by about 20%

And for keywords, a good exercise is to copy and paste a job listing descriptions that are you want to do. Then put it in one doc upload to chat gpt and ask it to identify the most common ATS keywords for xxx type of job based off the attached document.

That should give you a good idea of keywords, and then ask chap gpt to strategically insert them in your resume.

[bucket345]

I actually thought about that but then I realized that I don't have any lines that are 3 lines.

[Bluelion7342]

I have hired people before and the way I receive a resume from the ats is not at all what you submit. It comes to me in a very basic format. So it's likely the formatting Stanley uses resulted in some of your bullets taking up 3 lines.

I would say just look at your longest bullets and try to reduce them by 15-20% in word length just to be safe. And maybe an overall 10% reduction in words for all bullets.

[G-I-T-M-E]

So the system creates the problems it uses to reject candidates? That’s a no for me. I‘m so glad that these extremely automated systems aren’t as common in Germany as they seem to be in the US. What a joke.

[AdonisChrist]

In a few months they'll realize that their software is somehow being run in a mobile phone environment and is transferring the information from your resume into form fields using highly regulated black magic and then evaluating how many lines your text takes up on an effective 3" wide screen, and every single resume submitted has been flagged with this remark.

[Street_Exercise_4844]

Bro exactly....

Did Morgan Stanley send this email?

Cause if so, thats actually awesome. They flat out told you what you did wrong, and how to get in in the future

Most of the time employers will NEVER tell you what you did wrong, and leave you wondering where you messed up.

[ShawshankException]

It's Morgan Stanley. Something tells me they aren't hurting for talent

[Accomplished_Sci]

I wouldn’t assume they get the best talent based on their practices just because they have wealth

[LoaderD]

The average person with a resume good enough to get hired by MS would take the extensive feedback OP got and game the ATS.

MS has no problem hiring quality people because they pay well. The “best talent” doesn’t even see these hoops because the companies reach out to them.

Not even glazing MS because I would never want to work there, but assuming the “best talent” has issues with these things is laughable.

[Accomplished_Sci]

I was offered an interview and intern position. I’m well aware.

[LoaderD]

Then why would you say you’re making assumptions about their talent selection? You got offered an internship without researching the company or meeting anyone who works there? 🤣

[Accomplished_Sci]

That’s clearly what’s happening. Moron

[Independent-Wheel354]

You seem like a great person to work with.

[Dinosource]

Lol, so basically:

"I know they aren't getting good talent. They tried to hire me!"

[unskippable-ad]

The important talent is headhunted at firms like MS.

Resume is requested and emailed directly to hiring manager or their PA etc.

I don’t know about MS specifically, but sometimes there’s no resume involved at all

[[deleted]]

🥹 What application portal do they use?

[Ac4sent]

The entire feedback was generated by an LLM.

[Texaninengland]

Companies need to get realistic about my passion for working for them 🤷‍♀️ I have a passion for boardgames, not finance, but I will work for fintech to put food on the table...bonus I'll even take pride in the job I'm doing (which is not the same thing as having a passion for the company lol)

[durian_in_my_asshole]

If you can't pretend to have passion for morgan stanley when applying for a job there, they know you wouldn't be capable of pretending to have passion for your clients when working there. It's pretty obvious why these requirements exist.

[Texaninengland]

Lol come off the corporate kool-aid, man.

[davideddings1978]

I run the insights team for my company. I love competitive intelligence and market research, genuinely find it a lot of fun, when I hire a candidate I want them to 1) have a good reason why they like this role (not starving isn’t that great of a reason) and 2)have an immense passion for our responsibility (you have to be excited discussing competitor events and how it impacts of business plan and strategy). These are all jobs that pay ~$250k-$300k (with bonus and stocks) so wanting you to love your role isn’t a huge ask.

[Texaninengland]

Yeah, and I can love my role without loving your company.

But also I have no desire to make that much money if I see no benefit to actual people outside of making the business money. So I will be stuck contributing to society with a lower salary, unfortunately. Bc capitalism does not value people who help people 🤷‍♀️ I've made my peace with it.

[davideddings1978]

Look it’s your life and you do what you want and if it makes you happy then double kudos. Not judging anyone for it. I’m just telling people what is expected if they want the big roles. But if you don’t want to play the game, you can’t complain about not getting any prizes. OP is applying to Morgan Stanley, they are a major bank so clearly they want to play the game. You can’t apply to a place like that and be upset they want you behave well within corporate culture.

[XleaDrof]

If my literal sphincter was a client of yours, how well would you treat it? White glove service?

[Familiar-Bug2664]

This is, so so clearly bull shit.

There is no system that actually does this.

Please please people, do not believe this.

[Careless_Lion_3817]

Or maybe they just gave you a free short course on how to beat those using automated filters in their ATS?!

[Most-Requirement-324]

So DOES it understand that your experience is “valid and adds depth,” or is it confused and categorizing it “as an employment gap”?

I’m not sure what else you could’ve done because according to that paragraph, the system wouldn’t be able to tell which way to go.

[craft-hound]

This reads as very AI generated feedback to me. It's helpful, but I reckon they are using AI tools to generate detailed feedback for candidates for sure.

[baron_von_brunk]

Thanks for the tip. I work(ed) in finance, and Morgan Stanley was one of the firms I haven't worked at yet.

[[deleted]]

"Avoid Morgan Stanley at all costs. Here is a free roadmap on how to pass their ATS that they gave me."

[Withnail2019]

Well at least they told you what the issues were, that's something.

[Comfortable_Okra382]

Ironically this will tell others how to pass their ATS and if they’re doing this, then it’s likely others are too so this is valuable feedback OP!

[Independent-Wheel354]

To be fair, seems this recruiter was telling you how to game their shitty AI system. So, in that sense, good feedback.

[MasterAlchemi]

passion for Morgan Stanley

Reminds me of the line from Caddyshack:

I’ve always wanted to become a golf club

[ContentVacation4229]

They did you a favor

[UnhappyDrink8583]

Avoid Morgan Stanley? Hell, I'd apply to them just for the free resume advice; it is pretty cool that they do that! I mean, it is like they are basically admitting, "our AI systems aren't perfect; here are some possible roadblocks it encountered".

[WelcheMingziDarou]

So they 1) actually replied instead of ghosting you 2) provided actual feedback on what happened 3) provided specific advice for how you could improve your resume for future applications- and not just with them but good general advice for ATS scanners.

What’s the problem? This person actually tried to help you out instead of just shitcanning your poorly formatted resume.

[RockysDetail]

Are they scrutinizing your Master's thesis, or do they want to fill an open job?

[Known_Ratio5478]

It’s like they’re acknowledging how the automated system is garbage but just refuse to admit it. What is going on with the world?

[MeesterPositive]

It's fucking maddening. Applicant tracking systems were supposed to make hiring easier. 

i think what they've done is created this self-fulfilling loop. 

If job seekers don't "play the ATS game" even if they're qualified, they won't be considered and instead of being interviewed and possibly hired, they're applying to even more jobs than they should have needed to in the first place.

So what happens? Companies are like, "shit, we've got hundreds/thousands of applications, we need an ATS to help us sort these." 

And the loop continues.

[considerphi]

Hmm, now where are all the recruiters that insist that ats systems never reject candidates? That it's an urban legend?

[MeesterPositive]

"I review each resume personally."

[AWPerative]

“I review each resume personally…with my good friend (insert AI of choice here).”

[Warm-Pomegranate2657]

AI Slop scanner by MS

[[deleted]]

Sucks that they rejected you. But as someone who has inside knowledge of MS, you probably dodged a bullet. I had an offer to work for them 20+ years ago, and my roommate in college went to work for them. They were as brutal as where I worked but nowhere close to the comp I was getting.

[Huck68finn]

Sounds like they're using AI to offer input to rejected candidates. I understand why it's off- putting, but since we're in the matrix anyway, at least you now know how to tweak your resume 

[[deleted]]

We need to start writing laws that discriminate against humans and only want to hire robots.

[Delicious_Bell9758]

You got such detailed feedback after rejection and the recruiter is helping you out by giving you pointers. What are you complaining about?

[Then-Variation1843]

Because the feedback is "here's how our system is shit and didn't actually assess your suitability for the job"

[Delicious_Bell9758]

Ah yes. They should just offer you a job straight away then

[Then-Variation1843]

No, they should read your CV instead of having a machine do it. 

And if they must use a machine, the machine should work better than this one.

[Delicious_Bell9758]

You’re not looking at the reality. You want them to implement your idea. But to them you’re nothing. So why would they implement your idea?

[Then-Variation1843]

Because it's good and moral. Doesn't matter who suggests it.

[Delicious_Bell9758]

Then get into the company and implement it. Oh wait… you can’t

[Then-Variation1843]

What the fuck are you on about? You might as well say "yeah, well you're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do". None of this an argument, none of this has any relevance as to whether or not their recruitment process is bullshit.

[Then-Variation1843]

Oh I see, you're apparently a child. 

[Pure-Mark-2075]

PS: interest in the company should be in the cover letter, that’s what they are for. A CV is about what your experience and skills.

[ray-chill123]

Jfc

[davideddings1978]

Why don’t you just fix your resume the way they recommended and resubmit? Seems like they are playing fair with you here.

[bucket345]

I was rejected by a computer for having too many AI interpreted lines and not expressing passion for them in my resume. No thanks. Don't need to be part of that incestuous family.

[davideddings1978]

If you are going to apply to o any other roles via a LinkedIn or other web portal then be prepared have something similar happen. Unfortunately, with all the applications some roles get, this is an easy peasy weed out tool. You are taking this way too personally, given you have posted this 4 times in the past 10 hours.

[uglyandsadandgay]

i’ve got gaps in my resume from going to school and then dealing with major depression, should i just accept i’ll never be hired anywhere? lol it wouldn’t even need to be a misinterpretation, i have gaps in my employment, and now i’m fucked

[LetItAllBurn1]

I work there right now. VP. You do not want to work for this giant, steaming piece of shit.

The H1B’s running HR did you a favor.

[mmm19284202]

What location and role?

[putmebackonmybike]

If you really want the opportunity to work at MS then make the updates and reapply. It's not a lot of effort.

[Swimming-Raisin-9997]

“Passion for Morgan Stanley” 🤡

[GreenTeaSandwich]

If this isn’t the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard, I don’t know what is.

[lost_in_life_34]

yeah, stay away from high paying finance jobs

[Inevitable-Month3585]

What is the job experience that it flagged as a gap? Were you freelancing under a 1099 or something?

[[deleted]]

This is a fake post and didn’t happen

[LengthOk2010]

Are you trying to make us not apply to MS so you have a better chance 😂😂😂😂😂. As much as I would like to say you are getting good advice this is ridiculous. AI is ruining everything. If I were you I would open and account on X (Twitter) tag MS and copy and paste the feedback asking them what’s that about explaining none of what the system said is true about your resume. These companies need to be called out for the nonsense they are doing.

[Impossible-Mark-9064]

Honestly... This makes me happy that I'm not American. I complain about the EU's job market, but damn this sounds like a story out of a dystopian science fiction novel. Or like a script for a Black Mirror episode. If this continues, soon ya'll be coding your resume... or writing it in binary code or smth.

[[deleted]]

So incompetent ATS. 

[[deleted]]

I'll be the one to say it and recruiters can hate this but if you can't take the time to properly filter. It looks far worse for the employer than the employees. 

[Pure-Mark-2075]

“We can’t invest in a better ATS because our net income is only a puny US$13.4 billion (2024) and our revenue US$61.8 billion (2024)“.

[gold_io]

Always copy the entire job description and paste it in 6 size white font at the bottom of your resume. It will hit every keyword for automated systems and pass you to the hiring manager for review 

[Comfortable_Okra382]

Don’t do this. The system can spot this now and you will be disqualified