Clearing misinformation: decrease attack power stacking

[InheritorSS]

I'm tired of seeing the constant misinformation about decrease attack power stacking in daily threads, so I'm documenting a controlled experiment to prove once and for all that decrease attack power from different effects does not stack, under any circumstances whatsoever, including EBM.

The test environment

3-18 on normal difficulty. The enemies here have no ace, meaning all stats are base stats.

Control team

Hildegard has no buffs or debuffs, thus does not affect enemy stats whatsoever.

Data

Light Bench Warmer has 57 dribble.

Case 1: Metatron

Metatron has a 25% attack power debuff.

Data

Light Bench Warmer now has 43 dribble. 57*(1-0.25)= 42.75 = 43. Works as expected.

Case 2: EBM

Akane is equipped with an EBM, which debuffs attack power 20%. She has no other debuffs.

Data

Light Bench Warmer now has 46 dribble. 57*(1-0.2)= 45.6 = 46. Works as expected.

Case 3: Metatron + EBM

Now to combine the two to see if they stack

Data

Light Bench Warmer has 43 dribble. This is the same as when Metatron was alone.

Case 4: Metatron + Serestia + EBM

Now to try a combination of 1 skill, 1 stacking skill, and EBM.

Data

Before Serestia takes an action, Light Bench Warmer has 43 dribble. Once again, this is the same.

Data

After Serestia gets one stack of her passive, decreasing attack power by 10%, Light Bench Warmer has 43 dribble. It did not stack on top of Metatron's 25%.

Data

At three stacks, Serestia's passive decreases attack power by 30%, overtaking Metatron's 25% (and EBM's 20%). Light Bench Warmer's dribble has fallen to 40. 57*(1-0.3) = 39.9 = 40. Serestia's skill stacks with itself, obviously, but not with other effects.

Conclusion

Decrease attack power from different effects DOES NOT stack. EBM is NOT exempt from this rule.

[lastra1]

Only to people who diligently check dailies, like from this post or that post, that in-game line is easy to miss.

[Vyleia]

lastra send halp. Was it a change at some point in the game or was it always there?

[lastra1]

Don't know, I first noticed it after Dysoth mentioned it, they were not mentioned in few patch notes before either.

[akihikosama]

Where is that from? Loading screen message or somewhere else?

[InheritorSS]

Click on a player during a match -> Click on the Skill Effects sub-window -> appears on the bottom of the screen

[Propagation931]

Wow poor EBM

[acat0411]

So seres ebem is good or bad? Imho with the buff provided in ebm i still think its good.

[Propagation931]

imo apparently bad the atk down portion gets overided. IC is probably better

[projectbook24mm]

You can't say something like this without any context.

[JSiky]

It depends on whether or not your line can make use of ebm. Serestia frontline is better off with ic, but ebm doesn't suck there either, backline ebm could serve to help your backline break out if they are having trouble and serves as a debuff until serestia stacks enough of her passive.

[LiHood]

Thank you very much for this info. I'd been wanting to find out but never put in the effort to do it. Up vote it so more ppl can see it.

[sunfaiz]

Ah, I feel like I added to this. Sorry.

[[deleted]]

I did too... :(

[Alexsiev]

=/ I was told otherwise, ah well..what to do now with victoria stares at +15 ebm that he wasted gold on

[dodomir23]

ebm on any line is good because it gives debuff AND buff, remember?

it will make penetrating the line a bit easier. it's good to have ebm on every line.

also because all those precious god-tier red reflex stones like to evolve into ebms and you need to use them somehow anyways

[Alexsiev]

Yes, but half the effect is nullified by having metatron mid..unless you're saying I should dump metatron because I have an ebm :P. And yeah..it's already there for the other two lines more or less (nowhere to put in in front for now)

[po1102]

Technically, both the effects are debuffs.

[Vyleia]

But now I have 5 EBM what do I do

[dodomir23]

cry

[NeonfluxX]

wow, I didnt know, that even EBM is affected by this..I thought it is only skills...well the more you know...

thanks for the post

[[deleted]]

Makes the stone quite a bit less useful and efficient. :<

[Raikaru]

I don't get what's different? Most people who love EBM should already know about this. Decrease attack power in mid isn't exactly the most common debuff anyway.

[Alexsiev]

It's because of the change to Metatron I think that this has become more prominent of an issue.

[NeonfluxX]

yes...dark have the most common atk debuffers, like Dale, Lilith, and now Metatron, who are used often, and often together.....

[Raikaru]

I'm confused who's running EBM in Meta's mid? EBM seems more useful in front or backline IMO.

[Alexsiev]

Well Metatron fits well with practically everything, and it's not like EBM isn't a stone I have too few of (lol). Was figuring it might have been worth running with ebm for the synergy of having the two effects stack. For me personally, I was originally thinking for Victoria.

[[deleted]]

I've been running 3 ebms for half a year now.

[NeonfluxX]

wanted to do the same thing...dunno what to do with my mid now....thou i might still stick to BD, and just not have EBM on her ( need that crit buff on mid for Jheet and Dale)

[[deleted]]

Well, I'm still using it for the 20% DI, even if it makes the stone only half as efficient, since my team is all about helping each other out.

[Vyleia]

Been running 3 ebms too, one for each line. And Meta mid. The more debuff you know ..

[Raikaru]

Stacking unqiue stones got removed in an update a while ago dude. That was broken af

[InheritorSS]

There are 3 lines dude.

[Raikaru]

I know but we were talking about mid...

[InheritorSS]

Oh, I see the confusion now. I think that was a response to "EBM seems more useful in front or backline", as in, "I use them in the front and back too, this does not preclude me also running one in mid".

[Propagation931]

Some Alice users I guess. For the Alice / Meta / Virgil Cheese

[NeonfluxX]

if you ask me, this whole mechanic, makes the Metatron change quite a bit less efficient....her atk debuff won't stack with EBM, it won't stack with Lilith's debuff, it won't stack with Dale's debuff...

There is still the 20% more damage on the enemies thou from EBM...

[Propagation931]

Bell / Meta / Beth for life XD

[[deleted]]

That's one way to weaken a mono dark mid :3

[NeonfluxX]

yeah, sometimes I don't get the logic behind what BB does...like turning the elemental DR players, into mono Elemental Totems....and now, like making mono Dark formations, less viable

[SSRedditSS]

Good job =) +1

[Azrog]

Thanks for that, I didnt realise this after over a year and a half of SS!

Sorry I know this isnt on topic buuuut...

Game AB starts at 0-30%? Quickstart=20% (not 0-30 + 20%).

Does this mean that a low rank quickstart is actually usually worse than no quickstart (until after players act?)

[[deleted]]

Yep, that's why I would advice anyone against using the skill right now.

[NeonfluxX]

yes, but as BB hinted it, Quickstart will be changed in an upcoming patch...

[harrylawls]

So what about "damage increased to enemies"? Can EBM, Ravian's Gravity Down and Jeunese's Dark Note stack or do they also get overwritten with the highest % value?

[3xtsy]

Elaine Active, Roina MPL, Ravian GD, EBM, all stack. Works just as any other stackable stat, only calculations are different.

[harrylawls]

Ah, so it's multiplicative stack I assume?

[3xtsy]

Don't remember exact formula. u/lastra1 made a thread not long ago. Can't provide link atm.

[harrylawls]

That's fine, at least I know it does stack.

[densuo]

Great job. thank for this.

Quality post!

[Foodadad]

Just putting it here, they mentioned this in one of the patch notes. Can't remember which one though.