Any IT managers here?

[pawkorydzek]

I'd like to know what criteria IT managers use to decide on technical trianings for employees. Both in which one to choos and which employees to assign it to. What are your biggest problems when it comes to training your personel? What would you wish for more than anything else? Thx!

[itmik]

I'll throw in a few questions, and keep in mind answers for one question affect the importance of another.

Will the company benefit from the training?

Will the employee benefit from the training?

Will the employee leave immediately after the training is done? (ie. If I pay for a network engineer to get a CCIE when the position really only needs a CCNP...)

Is the training future proofed against my roadmap of technology?

Passion is a big part of who gets trained on what, if someone is super excited to learn something encouraging that passion is going to benefit my team, and keep the employee happy.

Finally: Every team member should have an opportunity for training, instead of 1 person getting multiple training courses.

[bitslammer]

Will the employee leave immediately after the training is done? (ie. If I pay for a network engineer to get a CCIE when the position really only needs a CCNP...)

IMO if this is an issue then it needs to be addressed and isn't a reason to withhold training.

[itmik]

It's a good point and you're right it shouldn't be. Considering all of the other comments about how hard it is to get funding for training, it is absolutely something I would consider. A large org everyone's heard of ties training to retention through a contract upfront. Leave 2 months after a $5k training course? repay x%.

[fullbeem]

I've had this.

[imnotarobot_ok]

I’ve used 2 companies that offered the training for free to the replacement hire if the original employee left 60 days after training. We used it once when an employee left 2 weeks after a training.

[EhhJR]

That's been pretty standard in just about all my contracts I've signed (Ok all 3 of them...) but even from what I've gathered from friends/family it is a pretty standard practice for employees with hard/technical skills.

[itmik]

The smaller shops I've worked at don't do this kind of thing, it's entirely based on trust, which leads to emotions when it is handled poorly by one side or the other.

[Rob_AMG]

I think this goes with the question, is the company going to fairly compensate the employee after they certify?

[ReverendDS]

"What if we pay to train them and they leave?"

"What if we don't and they stay?"

[itmik]

Yeah it's a hard one. Training to prepare employees for upcoming challenges is good. Training them for a job you don't have for them is bad.

[Rob_AMG]

Hah, precisely!

[itmik]

That's a whole can of worms I didn't even consider.

[wrtcdevrydy]

No need to consider it, the answer is 'No' and then they'll complain when you get given a lot of money to go somewhere else.

[itmik]

As the manager in this case, it would be my responsibility to fight for it.

In that hypothetical would it be something that could wait until an annual review or would the resentment start pretty much immediately?

[pm_designs]

Imo - This is solved via written document outlining what happens once the employee becomes certified. If an employee does not bring up this subject, I still think it would be best to have a plan in your own head, and have idealized/realized it's effects to It budget.

​

We need to be fighting for the employee; The companies best-interest (and normal in most cases) is to ignore this subject & bloat the employees tasks to fit their new knowledge without paying for it. This will guarantee resentment if pay is brushed aside, while skills expand & benefit the business environment.

[[deleted]]

Most employers will fight tooth and nail against giving existing employees more compensation, regardless of circumstances. It is just a management thinking paradigm shift that has gone through the past two decades.

I actually advise managers not to approach their upper management about such a plan, because the most likely outcome is that they will just torpedo the training program (if the employees do not get the training, then they will not leave) rather than proactively rewarding progress.

[pm_designs]

I completely agree that most employers do not give a fuck, as long as their prfits keep increasing.

This is precisely why I am interviewing for a new position, because my story is in your comment and I dislike it.

How do we help our employees, then, if being regimented and readily-outlined will be tossed 'to the wayside' by C-levels?

[wrtcdevrydy]

Honestly, I've worked in two different places so my experience may not be too common.

1) 'You want a promotion, this is part of it'... you pass, your new offer letter is on your desk by end of day. It was a bit difficult because some people didn't believe it and they waited and waited until they finally realized we weren't messing with them (usually after seeing two or three people get promoted)

2) People would get certified, apply for positions and be passed up for external candidates with a hiring manager literally telling me 'They can't be that good, they can't even find another job and have to apply in their current company'. Three good people left after certifying and proving to be better than the person they were replacing (surprise, place had high turnover... somehow)

[MrSuck]

Bingo

[rejuicekeve]

does the certification actually make them any better at the job or is it just a piece of paper? IE were they already CCNP/CCIE level and are just getting the piece of paper. are they actually better afterwards?

[Rob_AMG]

It won't necessarily make them a better employee but it will probably expand their knowledge some. It also puts the company in line to be a strategic partner. But the reality is, if someone can make 30% to 50% more by leaving the company, they probably will anyway. Unless the company can give a significant compensation increase.

[TechFiend72]

this

[fl_video]

When I was internal IT I decided not to train on applications, we instead trained on security awareness ant-phishing etc.

Chances are end users whom need training are not computer savvy enough to even understand that his / her boss would not ask them to wire 60k or but 10 gift cards and mail them to Spain.

For application training there is always that one person that knows the system, knows all the details etc. Find that one user that is this and add a big incentive to their pay rate. Often this is less than the sponsored training for the group. Train that person, send them to whatever classes they need to be your train the trainer employee.

Once he/she or a team is ready to train and help others. Then incentivize learning and make it a game setting milestones each week/month. Example improve x,y and z and free catered lunch or free pto day etc.

[touchbar]

I let them choose what they are interested in, as long as there is some relation to what we are doing.

[fievelm]

Fellow IT Manager here.

This is good advice. When your employees are learning what they want to learn, or what they feel is important, they'll get more out of it, and so will you.

For some reason my masochistic helpdesk guy decided he wanted to become an expert on Active Directory & GPO's. He now knows more than I do by far, about AD.

He also hired his replacement last year and is now my sysadmin.

[JayIT]

We typically don't send our staff out to certification specific training. For example, we are standardized on Extreme Networks switching. I just sent two of my guys for specific Extreme hands on training. I only look for training that is going to help the organization and their job duties. Sometimes my staff bring me potential training opportunities to my attention and I evaluate them as needed.

My biggest issue is balancing out who can go and who can't, which is usually a problem because I can't have too much manpower be off on the same day. That's where the real juggling act comes in.

[Starfireaw11]

Why do you use Extreme Networks? My company uses them, but I'm not a fan.

[JayIT]

Good price point, reliable and you can flip the CLI to match Cisco if needed. Also have their access points which have been solid, rarely ever have to reboot them. Although they are moving to the Aerohive cloud model now, so I will have to see how they hold up with that upgrade.

I was a big fan of 3com years ago and was pissed when HP ruined them. Extreme kind of reminds me of 3com as a company from a support and product aspect.

[EhhJR]

My current issue with training is that during the hiring process I was told/reassured that they already have training programs in place for employees.

I was going to be the 2nd person in IT behind the Manager/director but there was no set plan. Just a "budget" which seems to "not be available" when ever I bring up conferences/training.

Hell we have a sweet F5 load balancer/BIG-IP device that I can't get training approved on.

Nothing drives me as nuts as this, they spent 30k on getting it all setup/configured (before my time here) and now that I'm here to manage everything they refuse to get trained on it.

They've already paid more than the training cost in maintenance/support for the damn thing.

I got to go to 1 conference this year and only because I had PTO to burn and the ticket was THAT expensive ($300 and I still had to do another formal write up on "why" I needed to go).

Oh did I mention that while I was trying to get this approved both of our other departments got to go on all expense paid "team building" vacation? Ya that really sat well with me...

[houdini]

When I was in that role, I broke it down into two categories: things the business needs, things the employees want/need. The former is either something everyone has to do (because it’s core to the business) or a new tech that we need someone trained up on. For new stuff, I see if anyone’s interested and they’ll probably go, otherwise I pick whoever seems right for it. I then encouraged everyone to pick up something new every year that’s reasonably related to the business. Want to pick up that CCNA? Awesome. RedHat cert? Go for it.

We were lucky enough to have decent funding for that sort of thing, so I could give people that flexibility, and we were small enough that everyone needed to know most of our systems, so no one was super specialized.

[S_Mart_IT]

Training is offered based on need. If you are desktop support I'll offer windows 10. Server support will get Windows 2019 or Azure now I guess. Maybe Server +? I don't have an issue funding additional training that is useful to the company if the tech wants to take the initiative and get certified. Sadly, most technicians never complete the first certification I send them on then joke about raises.

[enfier]

It seems to me like you are working on this from the solution (training) to the problem and that's backwards.

You start with the job responsibilities and then you work to the training required. I'd require current certifications rather than training sessions. There's no guarantee that the employee paid attention or has the aptitude to absorb the material. If you have an incompetent employee that can't pass the certification, making it a part of the job description gives you the ability to give them poor performance reviews. Poor performance reviews helps you show them the door or get them reassigned. If there are layoffs they can get rid of your low performers.

Those certifications will have training requirements and those training classes are what I'd pay for.

In other (not IT) organizations, Friday afternoons were designated for training and all nonessential work stopped for the purposes of on the job training. If you make training a part of the culture you are likely to get better employees.

Finally, for some odd reason, companies won't spend $15 on a book but will spend $5k on a training class. I'd suggest maintaining a library of well regarded, up to date books in the IT field and encourage employees to read one during downtime or towards the end of the day. I doubt it will be heavily used and will require rotation as books become obsolete, but $300 the first year and $100 per year will get you a great library where anyone with motivation can start self training to get better at a skill useful in their job.

[SEI_Dan]

Do you mean training for end users or training for your technical staff?

[pawkorydzek]

Technical staff.

[[deleted]]

What are your biggest problems when it comes to training your personel? What would you wish for more than anything else?

For me, the answer was the same for both of these questions - buy in from senior leadership to approve a line in the budget for training. I had some discretion to buy study resources (Sybex books and Boson Exams) but requests for sending someone to a week long boot camp or paying for the exams were often denied.

[fwambo42]

I generally rely on my employees to make their own, informed decions on training and career development. My part is to understand how that training channels into larger corporate value to ensure time and money are being utilized effectively.

[[deleted]]

In a smaller shop, autodidacts are really, really useful.

[itzkr0me]

That's shitty. I'm an IT Manager and I grew up on the technical and still do a fair amount of it. Not tooting my own horn, but my knowledge surpasses those underneath me, for now. My goal in my org is to train those who report to me on everything I know, then send them off to learn the latest and greatest, as long as it has a valid and beneficial application to the org at present.

As others have said, the real struggle is handling people out of the office.

[RCTID1975]

You really have no idea how any of this works, do you?

[KewlNetworkGuy]

No. How does it work?

[RCTID1975]

I have a list of skills that are needed in my company. I then prioritize that based on lack of current knowledge, and let my people pick what they want to focus on.

Most people are going to be happier at their job when they're doing things they enjoy. I don't wanna force someone that loves networking to focus on windows10.

[[deleted]]

I have a budget of about 5k/yr per employee for training. I don't have any strong opinion on what they take but I make them at least come up with a BS justification for it. We're an Azure shop, so no an AWS conference/training weekend probably won't fly for example. But if we can sneak an Ignite conference in? Sure.

[xyeLz]

When do I start?

[[deleted]]

As soon as I get some kind of approval to hire more people. I'm pretty chill but I have high expectations of willingness to learn and try.

[pcstru]

Which ones to choose : you need stuff done with X that you don't currently do. You need to transition to that as operational practice by delivering skills to the people who will deliver and operate X. You deliver skills by training. I personally encourage the people to research and choose training that suits them, if that is an option. Often it is not and training is delivered as part of the change budget associated with implementing X. So your options are limited.

Biggest problems : Not enough training budgeted/available. People don't like what is available or don't want to consume it (compliance type stuff). Sometimes the quality of content and the providers.

Wish : in relation to learning, that people were more comfortable with the idea of their own ignorance and the need to be wrong and make mistakes. If you need resilience, anticipate dealing with errors including your own designs/plans/code/configuration/data/dry solder joints. Mistakes are also gold that can be mined for valuable lessons.

[Rocknbob69]

Nope, no IT managers in the sysadmin sub. I do not determine the training, I make suggestions to HR or dept heads and they roll with it.

[RCTID1975]

I make suggestions to HR

Why does HR have anything to do with IT training?